thebrig Posted January 6, 2013 Author Share Posted January 6, 2013 [quote name='Inti' timestamp='1357485098' post='1923229']But you're still a teacher even if you're unemployed as long as you have an exam. Think about that one. Same goes for many professions such as medicine, architecture...etc. [/quote] Not sure whether I understand this statement, are you saying that you can only be classed as a musician, if you have passed an exam? There must be many great guitarists/bassists out there, who have never even had a lesson, let alone pass a music exam, but we all know [u]are[/u] great musicians, Please forgive me if I have misunderstood what you are saying. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stingrayPete1977 Posted January 6, 2013 Share Posted January 6, 2013 IBTL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stingrayPete1977 Posted January 6, 2013 Share Posted January 6, 2013 So if you do grade 5 violin at school and never play again your a musician but if you play gigs most weekends to a high standard and get everyone on the dance floor week in week out your a hobbyist? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stingrayPete1977 Posted January 6, 2013 Share Posted January 6, 2013 Trust me I am unsubscribed, you come here and say you like a debate yet anyone who raises a point is a troll or a mediocre clown is it? see you later, you dont play upright do you? I like it over there Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimR Posted January 6, 2013 Share Posted January 6, 2013 [quote name='stingrayPete1977' timestamp='1357490040' post='1923370'] So if you do grade 5 violin at school and never play again your a musician but if you play gigs most weekends to a high standard and get everyone on the dance floor week in week out your a hobbyist? [/quote] I think it's a title other people bestow on you. If you've taken an exam, then an examiner has given you the title. If someone has asked you to play with them and the audience have stayed to listen to your music then you're a musician. Just owning an instrument and making sounds with it, copied from sheet music or CDs probably doesn't make you a musician. You could well be a good player and a musician but whether you can decide yourself whether you are a musician or not is probably a matter for debate. Is everyone who auditions for x-factor a singer? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stingrayPete1977 Posted January 6, 2013 Share Posted January 6, 2013 I will pm you the answer Tim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimR Posted January 6, 2013 Share Posted January 6, 2013 Did we get to 5 pages then? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
topo morto Posted January 6, 2013 Share Posted January 6, 2013 [quote name='Inti' timestamp='1357490144' post='1923372'] PS...good joke about the dance floor there. Joker. [/quote] ?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stingrayPete1977 Posted January 6, 2013 Share Posted January 6, 2013 no idea ??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zenitram Posted January 6, 2013 Share Posted January 6, 2013 Wow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yepmop Posted January 6, 2013 Share Posted January 6, 2013 You could turn this the other way, you may have excellent at musical theory but if you do not have the imagination/creativity to use it are you a musician? To me if you can play an instrument to a good standard, you're a musician. If my memory serves me right did not Jaco learn musical theory later in his life? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lowdown Posted January 6, 2013 Share Posted January 6, 2013 [quote name='stingrayPete1977' timestamp='1357488610' post='1923314'] IBTL [/quote] You are only a musician if you are 'In Before The Lock In' Garry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
topo morto Posted January 6, 2013 Share Posted January 6, 2013 [quote name='Inti' timestamp='1357491252' post='1923418'] Getting people on the dance floor as measurement of musicianship is quite funny. Failing to see the evident flaws in the statement is quite funny, yes. [/quote] That wasn't his point - he was saying that he thought being a musician should involve actually making some music on a regular basis, rather than (or as well as) simply having a level of knowledge. [quote name='Inti' timestamp='1357491252' post='1923418'] Last time I checked people danced to technotronic and jenifer lopez, while listened to Bach, Holdsworth and the Mahavishnu Orchestra. [/quote] The point being...? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimR Posted January 6, 2013 Share Posted January 6, 2013 [quote name='yepmop' timestamp='1357491674' post='1923435'] ... . If my memory serves me right did not Jaco learn musical theory later in his life? [/quote] No, he spent his whole life learning it. He only formalised it later. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebrig Posted January 6, 2013 Author Share Posted January 6, 2013 [quote name='Inti' timestamp='1357490144' post='1923372'] Do you actually read what I write or are you trying to get some attention as usual? Don't expect a respectful answer when all you do is trolling. PS...good joke about the dance floor there. Joker. [/quote] I was quite pleased to start a post that has drawn a lot of interesting responses, some I agree with, and some I don't, but I respect everybody taking the time to respond, so why do we have to respond like this, just because someone has a different opinion? What I don't understand is, why is the venom directed at stingrayPete1977, this is meant to be a debate, not an argument! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stingrayPete1977 Posted January 6, 2013 Share Posted January 6, 2013 Im not one Garry Inti wont let me Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebrig Posted January 6, 2013 Author Share Posted January 6, 2013 [quote name='Inti' timestamp='1357491252' post='1923418'] Getting people on the dance floor as measurement of musicianship is quite funny. Last time I checked people danced to technotronic and jenifer lopez, while listened to Bach, Holdsworth and the Mahavishnu Orchestra. Failing to see the evident flaws in the statement is quite funny, yes. [/quote] SNOB!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcnach Posted January 6, 2013 Share Posted January 6, 2013 [quote name='Zenitram' timestamp='1357406882' post='1922263'] Right, but that doesn't mean you don't know any theory. Everyone, [i]everyone[/i] knows some theory. See here: [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A13_QGMtlRE[/media] [/quote] That's brilliant!!! Thanks for posting that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcnach Posted January 6, 2013 Share Posted January 6, 2013 [quote name='MiltyG565' timestamp='1357397040' post='1922048'] Ok, what about their very slick changes during this entirely spontaneous jam? There's never somebody on stage going "Oh f***, we aren't playing in E-minor at 120bpm anymore?". It's just too clean to ever make me think that it's anything other than pre-arranged. [/quote] Maybe some of those "jams" indeed have some deeper level of prearrangement... That is entirely possible. What I'm saying is that good musicians that play together a lot, especially jamming together a lot, are able to play stuff without getting lost, and when they get caught out they can react so quickly to one another that most people would not know it. In my band, we are not 1% of the musicians those guys are, and we get away with a lot. So many times we just burst in laughter as we play because... somehow, unexpectedly, we knew where we were going, and we anticipated a change and worked seamlessly. Not every time, of course, not even once every ten times... But it happens. If we jammed together for 20, 30 years... I think we could Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lowdown Posted January 6, 2013 Share Posted January 6, 2013 [quote name='stingrayPete1977' timestamp='1357491878' post='1923445'] Im not one Garry Inti wont let me [/quote] Looks like it's a clown for the day then.... Garry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mykesbass Posted January 6, 2013 Share Posted January 6, 2013 So our 12 year old Swedish friend finally nails his colours to the mast and proclaims The Mahavishnu Orchestra to be music whilst Jennifer Lopez isn't. Well, tell you what, I'm very happy over here in the clown camp 'cos I gave up on that masturbatory twaddle thirty odd years ago when someone opened my ears to the Count Basie Orchestra - never looked back! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ambient Posted January 6, 2013 Share Posted January 6, 2013 (edited) [quote name='lojo' timestamp='1357370490' post='1921658'] I've played with a fair few classily trained musicians who know all the theory and can site read at speed etc, but they are completely unable to solo or improvise. Some of us may be limited by lack of theory but some that know it are limited in other ways by it. [/quote] I've also played with a fair few classically trained musicians, they have fantastic reading skills, a thorough, deep knowledge of the harmonic aspect of music and they can improvise like **ck. Edited January 6, 2013 by ambient Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
topo morto Posted January 6, 2013 Share Posted January 6, 2013 My general experience: People who know no theory are quite good People who know a bit of theory are crap People who know a lot of theory are very good The sample is 'people I have played with', and I am not that great, which may skew the results. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lowdowner Posted January 6, 2013 Share Posted January 6, 2013 [quote name='topo morto' timestamp='1357494741' post='1923518'] My general experience: People who know no theory are quite good People who know a bit of theory are crap People who know a lot of theory are very good The sample is 'people I have played with', and I am not that great, which may skew the results. [/quote] What's 'a bit of theory' and what's 'a lot of theory' exactly? Having a few formal theory qualifications in music theory I can honestly say that all it did was point out how little I knew/know. Lord knows how you'd measure a level of 'how much' theory you know except whether you could put it into practice or not. Anyone can rote learn theory, but *applying* it is a whole new ball game. I'd rather know a little theory and apply is very well than a lot and apply it piss poorly Excellent thread by the way - lot's of really interesting comments. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimR Posted January 6, 2013 Share Posted January 6, 2013 [quote name='Mykesbass' timestamp='1357494290' post='1923508'] So our 12 year old Swedish friend finally nails his colours to the mast and proclaims The Mahavishnu Orchestra to be music whilst Jennifer Lopez isn't. Well, tell you what, I'm very happy over here in the clown camp 'cos I gave up on that masturbatory twaddle thirty odd years ago when someone opened my ears to the Count Basie Orchestra - never looked back! [/quote] The problem is his theory is majorly flawed in that when Bach etc wrote their tunes, they were popular and (shock, horror) people danced. Although the musicians of the time probably played with a bit more feeling than the orchestras do now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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