Les Posted January 5, 2013 Share Posted January 5, 2013 Just been thinking about a photo our singer put on facebook saying roughly "Why will people pay £3.50 for a coffee that costs pennies is gone in a few minute etc. etc. but won't pay 99p for a song ?". Some of you may have seen it doing the rounds. I have no problem buying my music but I have to admit if I have to learn a cover song, for my band, that there is no way in the world I would want to buy it for my own listening pleasure I generally download it for nothing, learn it then forget about it, and it just sits on my laptop forever and never gets played again. What's everyone else's take on this ? Should I buy it ? Can't really make my mind up on this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jakenewmanbass Posted January 5, 2013 Share Posted January 5, 2013 (edited) If you decide that someone owns something and you want it from them, in this society we generally use money in a mutually agreeable transaction buy it. (some just steal of course) I believe that in an environment where you can barely breathe without it costing you money that it's legitimate for a musician/writer to say "this song what I wrote is mine, so if you want it you have to buy it" obtaining it by any other means whether we like it or not is theft... something which I would be surprised if any one person here has never done. I know I have. Edited January 5, 2013 by jakenewmanbass Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roland Rock Posted January 5, 2013 Share Posted January 5, 2013 Seems expensive for a coffee? Anyway, people will pay that for coffee because they can't get it for free. If there was a way to get it for free easily, how many people do you think would pay? I have paid for any songs that we're covering, so can take the moral high ground. Secretly, the real reason is that I don't know how to download music for free :-) If i did know how to do it, I'd like to think that I'd still pay. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlapbassSteve Posted January 5, 2013 Share Posted January 5, 2013 I've started paying recently since I'm now in a better position to afford to, but I remember hearing someone point out once in a debate that if you download something, it's still there after you've stolen it, as opposed to walking into HMV and lifting a CD which will have cost money to replicate and buy in as stock. 9/10 times you wouldn't have gone and bought it instead, so they aren't loosing money anywhere. 'They' being the big evil record companies, pretty sure the artists don't actually loose out as much as some of the ad campaigns would have you believe. From a 'should I buy it' perspective, you'll pay 99p tops for the song, and will easily get the money back straight away from a paid gig... plus you get the moral high ground Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bertbass Posted January 5, 2013 Share Posted January 5, 2013 It's so easy to find and download a song with itunes that that's what I do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horizontalste Posted January 5, 2013 Share Posted January 5, 2013 Spotify Premium works for me. But I do miss owning Cd's and Records and Tapes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
merlin Posted January 5, 2013 Share Posted January 5, 2013 just spending my £25. Itunes voucher, yes always even for band stuff,the odd 99p for a song,its not that bad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jakenewmanbass Posted January 5, 2013 Share Posted January 5, 2013 (edited) [quote name='SlapbassSteve' timestamp='1357403821' post='1922208'] I've started paying recently since I'm now in a better position to afford to, but I remember hearing someone point out once in a debate that if you download something, it's still there after you've stolen it, as opposed to walking into HMV and lifting a CD which will have cost money to replicate and buy in as stock. 9/10 times you wouldn't have gone and bought it instead, so they aren't loosing money anywhere. 'They' being the big evil record companies,[b] pretty sure the artists don't actually loose out as much as some of the ad campaigns would have you believe.[/b] From a 'should I buy it' perspective, you'll pay 99p tops for the song, and will easily get the money back straight away from a paid gig... plus you get the moral high ground [/quote] Established artists may not lose IP (intellectual property) revenues, but I can tell you from first hand experience that the development money has all but gone from the business so in many ways it's even worse because the losers are the service suppliers... New Artists, Musicians, Producers, Copyists, Writers etc etc... they... we... Have been demolished in recent years. Edited January 5, 2013 by jakenewmanbass Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mornats Posted January 5, 2013 Share Posted January 5, 2013 I've always bought my music. I guess I appreciate it more for buying it. However, I now have a Spotify Premium account which I love but it does mean I'm not buying albums. Not that I bought many, one or two a month tops. Sometimes none a month. So my outlay is about the same, but I get much more music. The downside is that I know the artists get fekk all from Spotify. If I love an album, I like the idea that the artist is getting some of my cash. So whilst I'm still legit, it doesn't feel as right as it should.. but then again, the labels negotiated those deals with Spotify so must be happy with them... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigRedX Posted January 5, 2013 Share Posted January 5, 2013 The idea that this question even needs to be asked on a musician's forum is staggering. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGreek Posted January 5, 2013 Share Posted January 5, 2013 I prefer to have hard copies of music so if there's a piece of music I like, I'll buy it. This why I hate Bubinga5 (metaphorically) - he's forever posting video clips of music which I then have to buy - recently: Donny Hathaway and Lettuce. For me, sites like Spotify (closed my account ages ago) and Youtube are places where I can get a taster before buying. It's like window shopping. My attitude is if you've got something for nothing that should have been paid for - you stole it!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Les Posted January 5, 2013 Author Share Posted January 5, 2013 so the consensus is buy it ? Have to agree. and we all know in our heart what the proper thing to do is, but, what if another member of the band has already bought it and emails it to you ? It's the equivalent, for those of us who've been playing a long time, of joining a band and getting a "tape" with the songs you had to learn. You couldn't get music for free then unless you tried to tape the charts on Sunday night with your finger on the pause button trying to anticipate the dj chirping in so someone had already bought it. [quote name='BigRedX' timestamp='1357407554' post='1922276'] The idea that this question even needs to be asked on a musician's forum is staggering. [/quote] Well, I asked it , but I take your point. I don't think any of us would disagree that music should be paid for, it's just the scenario I mention in my first that's got me questioning my ethics. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlapbassSteve Posted January 5, 2013 Share Posted January 5, 2013 (edited) Doesn't help with this that the law is pretty vague. I think it was only recently they made it legal to rip music from a CD that was bought and paid for legally, and put it on an MP3 player. Everyone with an mp3 player did it, but it was technically against the law. [url="http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-2021897/CD-ripping-legal-UK-Downloading-songs-MP3-players-longer-illegal.html"]http://www.dailymail...er-illegal.html[/url] -if ripping from a purchased CD was technically illegal, a lot of people must've thought why not simply download it instead... Edited January 5, 2013 by SlapbassSteve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jellyfish Posted January 5, 2013 Share Posted January 5, 2013 It's up to the person unfortunately. Campaigns like this (it's just a picture, I know) will probably never reach out to anyone enough to make them change their mind. I openly admit to downloading music illegally if I've never heard it before. Anything that I like I then buy a copy of either through iTunes or the web. Anything I don't like gets deleted after the first or second listen. I don't claim to know the music industry inside out, not the opinions of the professionals upon which the music industry is based, but I don't see why this way isn't acceptable. Of course, if you're downloading a song for the sole purpose of learning it in a band situation then you would hopefully be arming something from performing it live so I'd feel better (personally) if I had paid for it. Then again, if the song wasn't my choice and I didnt want to buy it, I'd ask someone else to source it for me. People like you are hardly the problem though, I know plenty of people's song libraries that are completely illegal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zenitram Posted January 5, 2013 Share Posted January 5, 2013 http://2003.cybersonica.org/images/eflyers/killing_home_taping_pink.jpg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Les Posted January 5, 2013 Author Share Posted January 5, 2013 [quote name='SlapbassSteve' timestamp='1357408697' post='1922317'] I think it was only recently they made it legal to rip music from a CD that was bought and paid for legally, and put it on an MP3 player. [/quote] I have to say, legal or not, I would have no moral dilemma about putting a CD that I'd bought onto my mp3 player. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dincz Posted January 5, 2013 Share Posted January 5, 2013 If you're downloading songs to learn for a covers band, it could be argued that the performing rights royalties will give more back to the songwriters than they would have earned from a single download. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alistair Sutcliffe Posted January 5, 2013 Share Posted January 5, 2013 For learning songs to play live, i rip the audio track from Youtube. I think that cover bands are actually helping the original artist by reminding people of their songs, which might lead to sales. If it's an album i want for myself, i to buy the cd. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Les Posted January 5, 2013 Author Share Posted January 5, 2013 [quote name='dincz' timestamp='1357410329' post='1922344'] If you're downloading songs to learn for a covers band, it could be argued that the performing rights royalties will give more back to the songwriters than they would have earned from a single download. [/quote] Pretty much where I was coming from, it's only the "learning a song that you would never buy" thing that I'm umming and arring about. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigRedX Posted January 5, 2013 Share Posted January 5, 2013 [quote name='Jellyfish' timestamp='1357409178' post='1922323'] I openly admit to downloading music illegally if I've never heard it before. Anything that I like I then buy a copy of either through iTunes or the web. Anything I don't like gets deleted after the first or second listen. I don't claim to know the music industry inside out, not the opinions of the professionals upon which the music industry is based, but I don't see why this way isn't acceptable. [/quote] I can't see any reason for downloading in order to check out a band. These days there are plenty of sources where you can legally stream music, that will give you a good enough idea whether or not the music is worth buying. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigRedX Posted January 5, 2013 Share Posted January 5, 2013 [quote name='dincz' timestamp='1357410329' post='1922344'] If you're downloading songs to learn for a covers band, it could be argued that the performing rights royalties will give more back to the songwriters than they would have earned from a single download. [/quote] Only if you are submitting set lists to the PRS after each performance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gilmour Posted January 5, 2013 Share Posted January 5, 2013 (edited) [quote name='Les' timestamp='1357401157' post='1922135']...I have to admit if I have to learn a cover song, for my band, that there is no way in the world I would want to buy it for my own listening pleasure I generally download it for nothing, learn it then forget about it, and it just sits on my laptop forever and never gets played again. [/quote] I find this astonishing. Effectively you think It's ok for you to learn someone else's song to play in your band. Presumably to play at gigs that you want to get paid for - but don't want to pay 99p to the artist who composed the material your performing? I find this arrogant and outrageous. Edited January 5, 2013 by gilmour Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigRedX Posted January 5, 2013 Share Posted January 5, 2013 When I joined my covers band I went out and bought all the CDs I needed to have a copy of every song I needed to learn. Not only did it make me feel good that I was supporting the people who wrote and played the originals, but I also discovered a whole load of other great songs that I hadn't heard before on those CDs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Les Posted January 5, 2013 Author Share Posted January 5, 2013 [quote name='gilmour' timestamp='1357410753' post='1922358'] I find this arrogant and outrageous. [/quote] well, in my outrageously arrogant way I suppose I'm actually asking the question cos' I do have qualms about it. I just never thought about it in the context of learning songs for the band, that's all. It actually didn't cross my mind till I saw the facebook post I refer to in my opening post. cos' I'm generally quite happy to buy music that I want. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gilmour Posted January 5, 2013 Share Posted January 5, 2013 [quote name='Les' timestamp='1357411651' post='1922372'] well, in my outrageously arrogant way I suppose I'm actually asking the question cos' I do have qualms about it. [/quote] I guess so, maybe I jumped in with an opinion a little to quickly there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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