Paying for music or not ?

[Mornats]

[quote name='uncle psychosis' timestamp='1357514013' post='1923992']
The spotify technology is awesome, but the revenue that the artists get is so pitiful that I'm put off using them. Call me sentimental/naive/stupid but I'd rather use spotify purely as a preview service and then go and buy the record.
[/quote]

Yes, I mentioned this as a dilemma of mine a page or two back.

[Leen2112]

Ok I'll admit I havent read all the posts but my point is that while I mostly buy music I don't see why I have to pay twice. I spent a lot on records (remember them?) back in the day and when that all went out I started to replace my faves on CD till I found I could download them for feck all. I thought I already paid for the music so how bad can It be. I always pay for music now though.

[the_skezz]

I stopped illegally downloading about two years ago, mainly because I prefer to have a physical copy of a CD - something more personal about it than an file on a computer. If I want to listen to a track I don't have, like if I'm learning it, I'll listen on youtube - if I want the priviledge of owning it and having it on my Walkman, I'll buy it. I hear all sorts of people say they'll buy something from a band if they like the download, but most of the time that's bull - I know people with a band's entire discography on their computer who haven't put a penny towards the group. It doesn't bother me if they pay or not, but it annoys me that they use such a flimsy excuse to justify it.

[uncle psychosis]

[quote name='Leen2112' timestamp='1357514554' post='1924002']
Ok I'll admit I havent read all the posts but my point is that while I mostly buy music I don't see why I have to pay twice. I spent a lot on records (remember them?) back in the day and when that all went out I started to replace my faves on CD till I found I could download them for feck all. I thought I already paid for the music so how bad can It be. I always pay for music now though.
[/quote]

I've long thought that one of the reasons for declining cd sales is that people bought lots of cds to replace their old vinyl which artificially raised the sales figures. Once people replaced their vinyl their buying dropped off dramatically. Personally speaking, I have most of the "old" music that I want, so now that I'm restricted to new stuff I buy a lot less than I used to.

[quote name='the_skezz' timestamp='1357514902' post='1924005']
I stopped illegally downloading about two years ago, mainly because I prefer to have a physical copy of a CD - something more personal about it than an file on a computer. If I want to listen to a track I don't have, like if I'm learning it, I'll listen on youtube - if I want the priviledge of owning it and having it on my Walkman, I'll buy it. I hear all sorts of people say they'll buy something from a band if they like the download, but most of the time that's bull - I know people with a band's entire discography on their computer who haven't put a penny towards the group. It doesn't bother me if they pay or not, but it annoys me that they use such a flimsy excuse to justify it.
[/quote]

One of the few advantages of getting older, having family etc and having less time to devote to music means that I can fairly happily afford to buy records as and when I want, because I'm discovering a lot less stuff than I used to!

[lettsguitars]

Taking money out of the equation has got to be good for music as an art form. No more x factor in the future! Let's face it, it is only a matter of time before hard copies are no longer produced.

[Skol303]

Sounds like I need to check out Spotify - it sounds great.

Me, I've always been obsessive about buying the music I listen to. Hence a record collection that is the bane of Mrs Skol's dream of a tidy home That said I've almost exclusively switched to digital music these days - in fact I haven't bought any vinyl for a number of years (apart from the occasional car boot sale purchase).

If I want to learn a song that's not in my collection, I use YouTube or I just buy it on iTunes. Not being all righteous here, that's just my preference.

[BigRedX]

[quote name='lettsguitars' timestamp='1357515360' post='1924015']
Taking money out of the equation has got to be good for music as an art form. No more x factor in the future! Let's face it, it is only a matter of time before hard copies are no longer produced.
[/quote]

Not necessarily. If musicians can no longer rely on their music to provide an income then they have to do something else in order to earn money, which in turn means a lot less time for music and consequently a lot less music.

[dave_bass5]

[quote name='Les' timestamp='1357401157' post='1922135']

if I have to learn a cover song, for my band, that there is no way in the world I would want to buy it for my own listening pleasure I generally download it for nothing, learn it then forget about it, and it just sits on my laptop forever and never gets played again.


[/quote]

Exactly what i do. I know i probably shouldn't but its too easy not to do it this way.

[MrTaff]

[quote name='BigRedX' timestamp='1357531528' post='1924095']
Not necessarily. If musicians can no longer rely on their music to provide an income then they have to do something else in order to earn money, which in turn means a lot less time for music and consequently a lot less music.
[/quote]

I'm not sure that would be such a bad thing, a lack of money wouldn't stop the real musicians but it would weed out the people only in it for the money.

[lettsguitars]

[quote name='MrTaff' timestamp='1357557423' post='1924295']
I'm not sure that would be such a bad thing, a lack of money wouldn't stop the real musicians but it would weed out the people only in it for the money.
[/quote]That's what I reckon. Poets and musicians need struggle to write their best material. Money ruins everything.
Unless they can find a way to police the internet properly very soon, noone will be paying for music or video within a couple of generations.

[pobrien_ie]

[quote name='lettsguitars' timestamp='1357557892' post='1924300']
That's what I reckon. Poets and musicians need struggle to write their best material. Money ruins everything.
Unless they can find a way to police the internet properly very soon, noone will be paying for music or video within a couple of generations.
[/quote]

I don't know if I'd agree with that. Surely a much larger percentage of people are paying for downloading music than in the days of Napster. I would have thought that recent high profile cases would further scare people to go the legal route. Also the likes of Netflix are making legal downloading of movies and tv programmes much more common place.

Personally I couldn't really be bothered downloading music via the likes of itunes etc. I might be a bit old fashioned, but I still generally opt for the cd which will force me to listen to the whole album. Most of the bands I like, such as Pearl Jam, provide most of their stuff on their own website.

Interestingly enough, I recall Pearl Jam as being one of the few bands who had no issue with Napster, Metallica being one of the main opponents of Napster. I think that says it all. When your music is art the financial side of things is less important.

[dave_bass5]

I thought the Home taping is killing music era proved that this is not the case. Several generations later the music industry is still going, its just that most aren't making stupid amounts of money out of it,
The industry needs to change and adapt to the new technology, and find a way to make paying and getting music easier and cheaper, they will never stop illegal downloading.

[lettsguitars]

Any decent band who get paid gigs offer their music for free. You know it's the future.

[BigRedX]

[quote name='lettsguitars' timestamp='1357557892' post='1924300']
That's what I reckon. Poets and musicians need struggle to write their best material. Money ruins everything.
[/quote]

As this is lacking smilies I'm leaning towards the opinion that you are serious. Can you confirm?

[BigRedX]

[quote name='dave_bass5' timestamp='1357558890' post='1924326']
I thought the Home taping is killing music era proved that this is not the case. Several generations later the music industry is still going, its just that most aren't making stupid amounts of money out of it,
[/quote]

As I explained in one of my earlier posts taping was always way too much hassle for it ever to be a serious threat, as anyone who tried to record off the radio or make copies of their mates LPs in the 70s and 80s will know.

[Zenitram]

I disagree; it was very easy and I did it all the time, and still have those cassettes (which to disagree with another of your points were a lot cheaper than any LPs or EPs), and which incidentally sound AMAZING in comparison with MP3.

I do take your point that downloading is easier, though.

[Zenitram]

Home taping helped make a lot of music as well, remember that. A lot of hip hoppers started by splicing tape up, doing mechanical mixes and breaks (it can be done; I used to do it on the mechanical tape deck of my parents' hifi, you could mash up beats quite successfully, with [lots of] trial and error).

And mix tapes helped spread the word, etc., blah blah.

Edited January 7, 2013 by Zenitram

[dave_bass5]

[quote name='BigRedX' timestamp='1357559787' post='1924363']
As I explained in one of my earlier posts taping was always way too much hassle for it ever to be a serious threat, as anyone who tried to record off the radio or make copies of their mates LPs in the 70s and 80s will know.
[/quote]

Cant say i found that myself, and i did a lot of it. I'd also say that illegal downloading isnt as wide speared as its made out. I dont know many people personally that knows how to do it and where to get it from. In fact i'd say its even more hassle than sticking a tape recorder in front of a radio.

[Zenitram]

And anyway the album itself as a concept is dead or on its way out, isn't it. That's the big difference.

[MiltyG565]

[quote name='Les' timestamp='1357401157' post='1922135']
Just been thinking about a photo our singer put on facebook saying roughly "Why will people pay £3.50 for a coffee that costs pennies is gone in a few minute etc. etc. but won't pay 99p for a song ?". Some of you may have seen it doing the rounds.

I have no problem buying my music but I have to admit if I have to learn a cover song, for my band, that there is no way in the world I would want to buy it for my own listening pleasure I generally download it for nothing, learn it then forget about it, and it just sits on my laptop forever and never gets played again.

What's everyone else's take on this ?

Should I buy it ? Can't really make my mind up on this.
[/quote]

I buy all my music, and what i don't want to, or can't afford to buy, i listen to on spotify. It's simple really. Support musicians and artists, and if you don't want to, but need to listen to their music, just find some way of hearing it for free, without actually doing them out of anything. YouTube is good too for that.

[lettsguitars]

[quote name='BigRedX' timestamp='1357559652' post='1924354']
As this is lacking smilies I'm leaning towards the opinion that you are serious. Can you confirm?
[/quote]:I Security and wealth are not very common subject matter and these things aloso do not encourage the creative mind to ponder existence. I speak from a personal level of course. There are very few 'modern' groups and by modern I mean anything past the nineteen fifties which holds any true substance and longevity for me. Pop stars know have very little in common with true artists. They are mostly in it for the fame and fortune.
To hell with success. Get a job to pay the bills and save the art for yourself and your friends.

[BigRedX]

[quote name='lettsguitars' timestamp='1357561100' post='1924400']
To hell with success. Get a job to pay the bills and save the art for yourself and your friends.
[/quote]

I would like to think that you consider the instruments you make in part at least art. Would they then not be better if you gave them away for free?

[JellyKnees]

[quote name='lettsguitars' timestamp='1357559123' post='1924337']
Any decent band who get paid gigs offer their music for free. You know it's the future.
[/quote]

Indeed. I like albums - I like the whole package, the artwork, the owning of an actual physical product etc etc but that's because that's what I grew up with. I don't believe that most of today's generation think the same way - I think they are quite happy with dowloaded music, and inevitably alot of that will be downloaded/acquired for free.

[flyfisher]

[quote name='BigRedX' timestamp='1357561535' post='1924413']
I would like to think that you consider the instruments you make in part at least art. Would they then not be better if you gave them away for free?
[/quote]

Not really - instruments are just tools. Like paint and brushes or a hammer and chisel. Anyone can pick them up and 'have a go' but few can use them to create true works of art.

This thread is a good illustration of why this whole issue is so contentious - there are simply too many points of view for a consensus to ever emerge, no matter what the state of recording/production/distribution technology happens to be.

As someone pointed out earlier, the whole concept of recorded music is a relatively new thing compared to music itself so why on earth should we expect some arbitrary 'morals' developed at the dawn of recording to remain the same forevermore? Things change and the times change with them. I can't see the problem. Well, I can really - it's a few superstar artists and corporates moaning that they can no longer make millions out of a few days work. Funny how we can get all uptight about bankers bonuses but think nothing about the likes of U2, Macca, Cowell et raking in the millions.

[BigRedX]

[quote name='flyfisher' timestamp='1357563106' post='1924453']
Not really - instruments are just tools. Like paint and brushes or a hammer and chisel. Anyone can pick them up and 'have a go' but few can use them to create true works of art.
[/quote]

I don't think that's true, but even if you do believe some instruments are simply tools, IMO the basses that Mr Letts produces are special enough to be considered at least partially art - otherwise they would simply look like Fender clones.