US Fender Playability?

[6v6]

Hi All,

Yesterday, after several months of saving and selling stuff, I went to a local well-respected guitar shop with the intention of buying a US standard Fender precision.

However I was really disappointed by the playability of all of the basses I tried (2010, 2011 and 2012 American Standard, FSR ash, Mex special, US and mex standard Jazzes)

I've currently got a Ibanez SR500, and it's easy to play, with a nice low action - I wasn't expecting the same slickness with the Fenders (having a much fatter neck), but the setup on all of the basses I tried was terrible - the nut on every single bass needed cutting *much* lower, the truss rods were all poorly adjusted (way too much relief), and the saddles were *way* too high on most of them.

Most of them (with the exception of the FSR) were also really pretty heavy and non-resonant too - the FSR was the best from this perspective, but I didn't like the maple fingerboard or the neck profile.

Is this typical of the QC of from-the-factory USA Fenders?

I understand that it can be difficult to find a really good, resonant Fender without paying mega money, but these basic playability flaws I found pretty shocking.

I had intended to buy a new bass then go to a rehearsal followed by a gig, but I just couldn't see how I could've played any of these basses for 5+hours without major discomfort, so I left empty handed and did the session with the Ibanez..

Can anyone share any pointers - are the CIJ/MIJ basses any better?

[Highfox]

I'd say you had some bad luck!
To be that badly setup, they must be copying the Jamerson signature!
Saying that any bass I buy new or second hand needs some tweaking to get it to play the way I like.
Normally it's a change of strings, a tweak of the truss rod, intonation, Pick-up heights etc. We all play a little differently, be it with a tender touch/digging in with pick, fingerstyle, slap etc.
I agree Fender could do a bit better with the factory set-ups, or even the shops take the time to give it a once over on arrival. Any decent guitar shop should offer you a setup if your interested in buying and not happy with how it plays. They are great as we all know once tuned to your liking

[lettsguitars]

You just discovered the meaning of fender. Heavy, plastic coated poorly made clones of the highest order. The name sells more guitars than the quality I'm afraid. I'm sure you can find 'good' ones or have one setup by a luthier (something you wont find in a fender factory/plant). You are much better off with your Ibanez. Gary Willis=Ibanez. Flea=fender. Says it all if you ask me.

[Lozz196]

Well it sounds as if the basses weren`t set up to your preference, but I recently bought a 2011 US Precision and I couldn`t be happier with it. Of course, the difference here is that whenever I play a bass that isn`t a Fender Precision, I experience much the same as you, it just doesn`t feel right. So as well as set-up being a personal thing, there`s always the possibility that, set-up aside, Fender Precisions just aren`t for you. Just like me & Jazzes, I`d love one, but they`re just not "me".

Re the CIJ/MIJ query - well the necks on these are some of the best I`ve played. There are usually two different types, standard and US version - as in PB60US as oppose to PB60. with these the body is made of alder, rather than basswood, though whether or not that makes a difference I couldn`t say, not having played a basswood CIJ.

[Ruiner]

[quote name='lettsguitars' timestamp='1357558963' post='1924328']
Gary Willis=Ibanez. Flea=fender. Says it all if you ask me.
[/quote]

Is Flea renowned for his choice of badly set up instruments? Hasn't' he also used Musicman/Modulus/wal basses in his time? Does that mean they are inferior also?

Confused.

Edited January 7, 2013 by Ruiner

[gary mac]

[quote name='Ruiner' timestamp='1357559835' post='1924364']
Is Flea renowned for his choice of badly set up instruments? Hasn't' he also used Musicman/Modulus/wal basses in his time? Does that mean they are inferior also?

Confused.


[/quote]

and me

[BobVbass]

Interestingly the best P basses I've played have both been copies - my current Lakland and a 90's Fenix years ago. Of the 5 or so US P basses I've had I've found them all perfectly playable but lackluster, the Jap P basses have been better (I've had 4 of those, including the Paisley I've still got) but still not superb, the best of the lot was an early Mexico one

The Arias, yamahas, ibanezs and washburns I've had have all been largely pretty good, easy to play but not me

Anyway all that goes to show errm if you want a decent Fender get a Lakland

Edited January 7, 2013 by bob_pickard

[redstriper]

I don't know about Precisions, but the best new Jazz I have played is the Farida which is easily as good if not better than any new Fender I tried.
[url="http://www.dawsons.co.uk/blog/farida-fjb6"]http://www.dawsons.co.uk/blog/farida-fjb6[/url]

[lettsguitars]

[quote name='Ruiner' timestamp='1357559835' post='1924364']
Is Flea renowned for his choice of badly set up instruments? Hasn't' he also used Musicman/Modulus/wal basses in his time? Does that mean they are inferior also?

Confused.


[/quote]I didnt mean much by that, other than to me a player like Willis is in another league to most pop players where the fender is prevalent, and his bass of choice is Ibanez so that tells me they cant be too bad. You dont see many top [i]modern[/i] players with fenders in recent times. I dont like heavy guitars with plastic bits, bolt on necks and uncouth aesthetics, but that's just me. Ibanez sweem to have a little more ergonomiciness and playability. My first bass was an Ibanez and it really set the standard for me in terms of weight, looks and quality.

[Musicman20]

Some of them are fantastic, most of them aren't. It's a lottery. I love my P bass but I was lucky it.

[molan]

Just sounds like a simple case of a lazy dealer who can't be bothered to set their basses up properly.

Was it, by any chance, a 'generalist' dealer that focuses much more on guitars than basses?

I've played some new Fenders that, when properly set up, have been really nice both in terms of feel and playability and core tone.

There was one particular 2010 US Standard Jazz that put a lot of expensive basses to shame.

[kerley]

A lot of it does sound like the shop has not taken much time setting them up but the question is how much setting up should they need.
For example why would the factory send out basses with high nuts and would a dealer be expected to lower it?

I only ever buy lower end basses but pretty much all of them have nuts that are cut way too high (exception being my recent Classic Vibe Precision which is perfect). I know action is user specific and can be adjusted to suit but who and why would anyone want the nut to be high?

[Stag]

I can relate to this - although in a non-conclusive way i guess

I bought my USA 2009 P Std from a chain shop in my town. It was excellent - setup was fine, sound was spot on, everything I expected and wanted from a USA P at that price. I bought my Geddy from the lovely chaps at Wunjo in London and that was probably the best setup "out of the case" bass ive ever played, with the exception of my 2011 Rick (sadly now back at the factory after the paint fell off it, different story).

On the other hand, i went to the same chain shop I bought the P from to try out some jazzes and other USA P's before I took the plunge on the Geddy - all from 2011/12 - and all of them were shocking. Badly set up, rattling in the neck - and worst of all, two of them had significant nut problems on the A string resulting in dull "clacking" string sound. Wouldnt have spent a grand on any of the four I tried! I do also twang a little bit of guitar on the side so tried a few SG's out and they were out of tune, all over the place. Whether or not that is indicative of anything I dont know.

So I think the old adage applies - you gotta play a few before you find the right one...

Edited January 7, 2013 by Stag

[Dingus]

With Fender all things are possible . Some need a bit of work to get them to play nicely , some are great straight out of the box . There is a degree of pot luck in that , but it sounds like the o.p is savvy enough to know about things like nut height ect so can at least play some and try to find a good one . In any instance , it's unlikely that a Fender bass will be slick to play with the setup that came from the factory ; they usually need a bit of tweaking on this side of the Atlantic , and as Molan points out , a lot of dealers are just too lackadasical to do it . If you want a Fender style bass that is really slick to play I would agree with Bob that Lakland are well worth investigating . The small and narrow vintage - style frets also impart a different feel to the modern Fenders which might be more to your taste . Try one and see .

[Ruiner]

[quote name='kerley' timestamp='1357563886' post='1924466']
A lot of it does sound like the shop has not taken much time setting them up but the question is how much setting up should they need.
For example why would the factory send out basses with high nuts and would a dealer be expected to lower it?
[/quote]

You make a very good point.

However a lot of big chain stores don't help themselves. I was trying out guitars with a friend and one of the jazzmasters we wanted to try had the bridge pickup set so high that it was catching the pickup cover on the low E string rendering it unplayable. We pointed it out to the member of staff who said "Yeah well you can just sort that after you buy it". True enough. We went elsewhere and bought a nicely set up one. Went back in the original shop 4 weeks later and it was still on the wall, still with the same problem. Surely one of the members of staff could have spent 10 seconds lowering the pickup height? It's almost like they don't want to sell them.

Edited January 7, 2013 by Ruiner

[molan]

I help out part time at a bass dealer and I see all sorts of set ups arriving at the store from both dealers and customers.

I tend to play with a lowish action but I see loads of customer basses with actions I find virtually unplayable. In fact something came in recently that had an adjustable height nut and bridge and both were jacked up really high.

This was someone's main gigging bass and that's obviously how he likes his set up.

I'm not saying that every bass should arrive with a high action but I can see some logic in sending things out that can be easily lowered rather than being cut very low and can't be raised.

Obviously the ideal scenario would be for everything to arrive somewhere in the middle and then set up to customer preferences. It's just a shame that too many dealers don't have the time/inclination to bother setting their instruments up properly

[redstriper]

It would be interesting to compare a few Fender clones with the real thing blind fold.
I think the Faridas would come out very well indeed, mine hasn't needed any adjustments since buying new - perfect intonation, action and relief.
It was £149 and is easily as good if not better than any new Fender or Lakland that I've played.
I suggest closing your eyes and opening your mind.

[Dingus]

[quote name='molan' timestamp='1357564625' post='1924481']
I help out part time at a bass dealer and I see all sorts of set ups arriving at the store from both dealers and customers.

I tend to play with a lowish action but I see loads of customer basses with actions I find virtually unplayable. In fact something came in recently that had an adjustable height nut and bridge and both were jacked up really high.

This was someone's main gigging bass and that's obviously how he likes his set up.

I'm not saying that every bass should arrive with a high action but I can see some logic in sending things out that can be easily lowered rather than being cut very low and can't be raised.

Obviously the ideal scenario would be for everything to arrive somewhere in the middle and then set up to customer preferences. It's just a shame that too many dealers don't have the time/inclination to bother setting their instruments up properly
[/quote]

+1 on this . There are plenty of players who like a more meaty action than most of us seem to do . To me , it's novel for about five minutes and then I wimp out and want it to play like I usually have it , which is fairly low but not choking

Molan , forgive me if someone has mentioned t of this before , but considering you look a bit like Lembit Opik and you like Alembics , do you think there would be much mileage in starting to call yourself Alembic Opik ? Just a thought .

[6v6]

[quote name='Lozz196' timestamp='1357559609' post='1924352']
Well it sounds as if the basses weren`t set up to your preference, but I recently bought a 2011 US Precision and I couldn`t be happier with it. Of course, the difference here is that whenever I play a bass that isn`t a Fender Precision, I experience much the same as you, it just doesn`t feel right. So as well as set-up being a personal thing, there`s always the possibility that, set-up aside, Fender Precisions just aren`t for you. Just like me & Jazzes, I`d love one, but they`re just not "me".
[/quote]

This is a good point, but I started out dabbling in bass many years ago on a (borrowed) early Mex Precision, and loved it - when I came to buy a few years back the SR500 was much much more playable than any of the cheaper Fenders (Mex stuff seemed to have gone downhill at that point), so I got it planning to "upgrade" to a US Fender if I got more seriously into bass (which I now have)

I've now got a bit of a conundrum seeing as I didn't get on with these P's. Maybe I've just been spoilt by the easy neck on the Ibanez, but I don't like the active pickups and really miss the Fender P tone..

[quote name='Lozz196' timestamp='1357559609' post='1924352']
Re the CIJ/MIJ query - well the necks on these are some of the best I`ve played. There are usually two different types, standard and US version - as in PB60US as oppose to PB60. with these the body is made of alder, rather than basswood, though whether or not that makes a difference I couldn`t say, not having played a basswood CIJ.
[/quote]

Thanks, this is useful, considering trying a CIJ/MIJ and factoring in a pro setup and new strings - should work out much much cheaper than the US ones and by the sounds of it may play just as well if not better?

[Conan]

[quote name='redstriper' timestamp='1357564968' post='1924487']
I suggest closing your eyes and opening your mind.
[/quote]

Excellent advice! Especially when it comes to Fenders and their clones.

[molan]

[quote name='Dingus' timestamp='1357565230' post='1924495']


Molan , forgive me if someone has mentioned t of this before , but considering you look a bit like Lembit Opik and you like Alembics , do you think there would be much mileage in starting to call yourself Alembic Opik ? Just a thought .
[/quote]

Brilliant!

I've been asked several times if I'm Lembit and even had people shake my hand and say they admired me, lol.

I don't currently own an Alembic but you may have prompted me to go out and find one now

[6v6]

[quote name='Dingus' timestamp='1357564312' post='1924474']
With Fender all things are possible . Some need a bit of work to get them to play nicely , some are great straight out of the box . There is a degree of pot luck in that , but it sounds like the o.p is savvy enough to know about things like nut height ect so can at least play some and try to find a good one . In any instance , it's unlikely that a Fender bass will be slick to play with the setup that came from the factory ; they usually need a bit of tweaking on this side of the Atlantic , and as Molan points out , a lot of dealers are just too lackadasical to do it . If you want a Fender style bass that is really slick to play I would agree with Bob that Lakland are well worth investigating . The small and narrow vintage - style frets also impart a different feel to the modern Fenders which might be more to your taste . Try one and see .
[/quote]

Thanks, I had considered a Lakland Skyline of some variety but will have to travel a bit to somewhere which stocks them - sounds like that may be a worthwhile journey so will plan to check some out.

[6v6]

[quote name='molan' timestamp='1357563222' post='1924456']
Just sounds like a simple case of a lazy dealer who can't be bothered to set their basses up properly.

Was it, by any chance, a 'generalist' dealer that focuses much more on guitars than basses?
[/quote]

Yes, they did have ~50 basses, but the majority of their stock was guitars, so maybe I should head for somewhere more bass-specific.

To be fair to them the sales guy did say they'd do a setup if I bought one, but by that point I'd become pretty sure it wasn't the best place to buy from anyway due to the state of all the stuff on display - as you say, lazy dealer, 30seconds with a couple of Allen keys would've improved things a lot (apart from the nut issues)

[6v6]

[quote name='redstriper' timestamp='1357564968' post='1924487']
It would be interesting to compare a few Fender clones with the real thing blind fold.
I think the Faridas would come out very well indeed, mine hasn't needed any adjustments since buying new - perfect intonation, action and relief.
It was £149 and is easily as good if not better than any new Fender or Lakland that I've played.
I suggest closing your eyes and opening your mind.
[/quote]

Well I'm open to any manufacturer - If I can find a nice, light, resonant P, with good playability and tone for £149 I'll be over-the-moon, I don't care what's on the headstock tbh.

The Faridas appear to be J-bass style only, and have gone up to £299 according to the dawsons website.

[Lozz196]

Well there are a few CIJs on here for around the £370 - £500 mark, think most are the basswood ones.

If the name Fender isn`t specifically required, the Squier Classic Vibes have to be worth checking out. Really nice players. Think there are a couple on here for about £220.

The Squier Matt Freeman Sig models, although I`ve not played one, also sound fantastic - a bassist who was on the same bill as my band used one, and it really sounded great.