Quality of sound becoming less important?

[MiltyG565]

[quote name='cheddatom' timestamp='1357634921' post='1925542']
I guess the implication of the OP is that older music fans are much more concerned about quality of sound that younger people who've grown up with mp3s?

Of the young music fans I know, most have spent way more than I ever would on a pair of headphones - misguided maybe, but it certainly shows concern for the quality of sound. I don't know if this is indicative of a common trend though



Are you saying that everything recorded before 1953 sounded better than anything recorded after?!?!? Nuts!!!!
[/quote]

I spent £35 on earphones, and i still think they are crap.

[MiltyG565]

[quote name='Leonard Smalls' timestamp='1357635136' post='1925546']
Aye!
I played the Kraftwerk "Minimum Maximum" live DVD to a youth t'other day. Previously he'd been going on about the ultimate sound quality of his Beats 'phones/iPod and the "awesome bass" of his Logitech 5.1 computer audio system.
He's now going to go and buy a proper stereo like this one!


[/quote]

I automatically avoid headphones that say bass on them, because i know they are trying to appeal to the ravers when they write that, not the bassists, who know the difference between a bass frequency, and a bass guitar.

[Leonard Smalls]

[quote name='MiltyG565' timestamp='1357635670' post='1925553']
I spent £35 on earphones, and i still think they are crap.
[/quote]

You should get pretty reasonable sound from £35 headphones by a reputable manufacturer (i.e. one who makes headphones).
Frinstance, the Sennheiser PX 'phones at £25ish will beat the crap out of £100 Skullcandys. And £45 iGrados are a lot more real than £300 Dr dre beats!

[Leonard Smalls]

[quote name='MiltyG565' timestamp='1357635810' post='1925555']
I automatically avoid headphones that say bass on them, because i know they are trying to appeal to the ravers when they write that, not the bassists, who know the difference [b]between a bass frequency, and a bass guitar[/b].
[/quote]

Between a hump in response at 70ish Hz to make it sound bassy (like Beats), and true bass reproduction and extension...

[MiltyG565]

[quote name='Leonard Smalls' timestamp='1357635970' post='1925559']
You should get pretty reasonable sound from £35 headphones by a reputable manufacturer (i.e. one who makes headphones).
Frinstance, the Sennheiser PX 'phones at £25ish will beat the crap out of £100 Skullcandys. And £45 iGrados are a lot more real than £300 Dr dre beats!
[/quote]

Well, they were Sennheiser earphones. Wasn't much pleased with them. My previous Philips sports earphones beat the crap out of the sennheisers by a long way, and they were only £20.

[Leonard Smalls]

[quote name='MiltyG565' timestamp='1357636146' post='1925566']
Well, they were Sennheiser earphones. Wasn't much pleased with them. My previous Philips sports earphones beat the crap out of the sennheisers by a long way, and they were only £20.
[/quote]

Perhaps they didn't fit your ears as well? Or you happened to have the duffer in Sennheiser's range?
Or perhaps they just showed up source limitations?

Edited January 8, 2013 by Leonard Smalls

[MiltyG565]

[quote name='Leonard Smalls' timestamp='1357636077' post='1925564']
Between a hump in response at 70ish Hz to make it sound bassy (like Beats), and true bass reproduction and extension...
[/quote]

I laughed my ass off at the girl who said she was an audiophile, and used Beats headphones because they were the best.

[MiltyG565]

[quote name='Leonard Smalls' timestamp='1357636237' post='1925569']
Perhaps they didn't fit your ears as well? Or you happened to have the duffer in Sennheiser's range?
Or perhaps they just showed up source limitations?
[/quote]

Maybe, i just know i spent £35 on them, and the £20 philips ones were far better than them.

[bremen]

[quote name='51m0n' timestamp='1357597609' post='1925270']
Errr...And that is the same now as it ever was, the best mic for a given application is the one that sounds best in that application at that time, it has nothing to do with the era in which it was designed or the type of mic or anything else. All that matters is does it sound better than the rest of your options in that particular scenario....
[/quote]

In a world of bullshit, disinformation and confusion, 51m0n's posts shine like beacons of truth and goodness

[51m0n]

[quote name='Leonard Smalls' timestamp='1357635136' post='1925546']
Aye!
I played the Kraftwerk "Minimum Maximum" live DVD to a youth t'other day. Previously he'd been going on about the ultimate sound quality of his Beats 'phones/iPod and the "awesome bass" of his Logitech 5.1 computer audio system.
He's now going to go and buy a proper stereo like this one!


[/quote]

Ding, and in fact Dong....

Would that be the room that accidentally has no parallel walls in by any chance

I've had similar experiences with my far more meagre hifi in my front room, from professional musicians no less. You would think they were used to decent sound reproduction spending time in studios and earningtheir living from music, but they are so often on the other side of the glass that they often dont really get to hear the results of their labours at best either these days I think.

A copl ehave started researching decent second hand hifi having listened to their work on my hifi. One is a double bassist, the look on his face when he heard the bottom fundamental octave coming out of my speakers was priceless...

[TimR]

Quality of sound has never really been very important.

I used to have an AM radio with tiny 5" speakers in my car, at one point I upgraded to an FM with cassette. It wasn't digital and would still go in and out of tune. But it did the job. Now the minimum is a PLL FM tuner with CD player and decent quality speakers.

I'm sure music is made louder to sound better in the car or headphones on the tube.

How many people who aren't audiophiles sit and listen to huge speaker systems in their home? Not many. As this thread shows the wives have control of what the sitting room looks like and big speakers don't look good.

[lettsguitars]

[quote name='cheddatom' timestamp='1357634921' post='1925542']
Are you saying that everything recorded before 1953 sounded better than anything recorded after?!?!? Nuts!!!!
[/quote]NOOOOO. Just that most folk are only interested in modern rock and pop (dubstep, whatever) which to me is throwaway music and has all been leading up to this point of audio saturation and quantity not quality due to industry profit margins.
The public (me included) are told what to like with constant flashing images of singing arses from birth. The human race has a rich history of beautiful music from all over the world and yet most of us only seem to be concerned with 'new' music which to me is absolutely tragic. Churning out music that is cheap to produce and distribute is ideal in the eyes of business bods and the majority fall for it every time. If classical music was encouraged more then it would mean less sales for tinchy stri(y)der. "New 'music' = new money and if we give it to em in awful but cheap formats from the start they'll get used to it and we'll be quids in". Sad state of affairs. Art is dying. Any real talent is killed off now at a very early age as kids spend more time on twitter than they do practicing thier fugel horn licks.
Throwaway capitalist culture is here to ruin everything! Including audio quality.
That's enough of that I suppose. Sorry

Edited January 8, 2013 by lettsguitars

[kerley]

[quote name='TimR' timestamp='1357639390' post='1925629']
How many people who aren't audiophiles sit and listen to huge speaker systems in their home? [/quote]

Not as many as in the past, which is the point.

And getting a good set of headphones is at least trying to get better quality sound but the weak point will remain to be the MP3 - crap in / crap out

[bremen]

[quote name='kerley' timestamp='1357639921' post='1925645']


but the weak point will remain to be the MP3 - crap in / crap out
[/quote]

Don't agree at all. OK, I'd rather listen to cd or vinyl, but there's less difference between uncompressed audio and decent bitrate MP3 than there is between floor-standing Tannoys and an Ipod docking station.

[51m0n]

[quote name='lettsguitars' timestamp='1357639733' post='1925642']
NOOOOO. Just that most folk are only interested in modern rock and pop (dubstep, whatever) [b]which to me is throwaway music[/b] and has all been leading up to this point of audio saturation and quantity not quality due to industry profit margins.
[/quote]

That could well be an indication of your taste rather than the quality of the work involved though, couldn't it?

I'm not going to attempt to defend the worst attrocities of contemporary pop, but I do think that a lot of contemporary EDM has interesting links to some pretty experimental electronica that validate it as an art form as much as any jazz by the likes of Coltrane (just as an example). No its not all about notes and harmony, instead its all about timbres, saturation, filters, sounds, transients, grooves etc, yet it is still as often as not experimental in that it is constantly evolving and striving for the next new idea, which is exacly what jazz was supposed to be doing, and then sort of stopped doing...

Of course I wouldnt expect everyone to enjoy it, any more than I can enjoy the efforts of Coltrane, but that makes it no less valid...

[kurosawa]

[quote name='TimR' timestamp='1357639390' post='1925629']
Quality of sound has never really been very important.

I used to have an AM radio with tiny 5" speakers in my car, at one point I upgraded to an FM with cassette. It wasn't digital and would still go in and out of tune. But it did the job. Now the minimum is a PLL FM tuner with CD player and decent quality speakers.

I'm sure music is made louder to sound better in the car or headphones on the tube.

How many people who aren't audiophiles sit and listen to huge speaker systems in their home? Not many. As this thread shows the wives have control of what the sitting room looks like and big speakers don't look good.
[/quote]

Yah, for old farts, AM car radio and juke boxes are THE sound. Any bass that sounds like that will be credible. And old farts have the money to pay for bands, PLUS they come from a time before the market fragged into hundreds of little ones. I want to capture that sound in a study rig made of junkyard auto parts, then have someone figure out what's going on with good measuring equipment, then replicate that in an amp and cab.

For critical listening, I have a ratty old pair of Sony MDR-V6 (ready for yet another pair of cushions) and a jogger-sized Philips CD player (tried Sony and something else, but the Philips algorithm is the best, most mercilessly accurate I've found). I wouldn't be able to replicate the level of performance they give for at least $30,000, and I wouldn't be able to afford even a fraction of that.

The other thing I use for critical listening is Cafe Walter HA-1 #49. Man is it ever merciless. Best way to critique my playing and evaluate any changes I make to my bass.

Edited January 8, 2013 by kurosawa

[51m0n]

[quote name='TimR' timestamp='1357639390' post='1925629']
Quality of sound has never really been very important.

I used to have an AM radio with tiny 5" speakers in my car, at one point I upgraded to an FM with cassette. It wasn't digital and would still go in and out of tune. But it did the job. Now the minimum is a PLL FM tuner with CD player and decent quality speakers.
[/quote]

Yes, and here in lies the issue. Up until recently as time went on and techology changed the result was an improvement in fidelity with each step. Until mp3, where things took a gigantic leap backward. And that is a steaming pile that is just about reaching the olfactory systems of all those who have been jumping into the mire that is downloaded music since the dawn of the interent....

[quote name='TimR' timestamp='1357639390' post='1925629']
I'm sure music is made louder to sound better in the car or headphones on the tube.
[/quote]

Yes it is. More correctly the average RMS level is raised compared to the peak level, this means the music is always the same volume regardless of the musicality of the original playing, so you can always hear it in a noisy environment once you set the volume at the beginning of the album.

[quote name='TimR' timestamp='1357639390' post='1925629']
How many people who aren't audiophiles sit and listen to huge speaker systems in their home? Not many. As this thread shows the wives have control of what the sitting room looks like and big speakers don't look good.
[/quote]

Interesting point, my wife wasnt initially impressed by the size of our floorstanders, then she heard them, now she wouldnt go back for all the tea in China - yes they are big, and not exactly works of art visually, but the sound is great, and they project right through to the kitchen with ease so she can listen to Gonzalo Martinez And His Thinking Congas (hugely recommended album if you can get a copy by the way) even when she bakes the family seriously superb cakes. She always has loved music though....

[lettsguitars]

[quote name='51m0n' timestamp='1357641199' post='1925675']
That could well be an indication of your taste rather than the quality of the work involved though, couldn't it?

I'm not going to attempt to defend the worst attrocities of contemporary pop, but I do think that a lot of contemporary EDM has interesting links to some pretty experimental electronica that validate it as an art form as much as any jazz by the likes of Coltrane (just as an example). No its not all about notes and harmony, instead its all about timbres, saturation, filters, sounds, transients, grooves etc, yet it is still as often as not experimental in that it is constantly evolving and striving for the next new idea, which is exacly what jazz was supposed to be doing, and then sort of stopped doing...

Of course I wouldnt expect everyone to enjoy it, any more than I can enjoy the efforts of Coltrane, but that makes it no less valid...
[/quote]Of course I am generalising to make a point. All genres have their reasons for being with good and bad efforts all round. All I meant was that people tend to forget the past 1000 years or so of human musical expression in favour of the latest bangin beats.

Edited January 8, 2013 by lettsguitars

[Cat Burrito]

I always favoured buying more music when I was younger rather than getting a decent stereo. The quest for finding great albums was greater than the desire to hear them sounding at their best. About 3 years ago I was running out of ideas for artists to explore so I went to Richer Sounds and bought a decent set of speakers, a good amp, a turntable etc. What a difference - although I find it preferable having the massive collection of music to enjoy with it. I remember a kid at school (1980s) who had the top of the range stereo and only about 3 albums which I never got. He equally couldn't get why I had 200 records and a cheap dansette. We're all different I guess.

I also now have some £150 laptop speakers which make YouTube sound much more acceptable.

[MaGrOtTeN]

i feel that people who blame mp3 for poor quality systems are in a bandwagon, as are those who choose a cosmetically appealing system over one that sounds immense.

analog-philes should not be mistaken for audiophiles!

[MaGrOtTeN]

all you have to do is look at people on a bus with dirt cheap headphones to realise how little people care about quality audio

[cheddatom]

[quote name='lettsguitars' timestamp='1357639733' post='1925642']
...Art is dying...
[/quote]

New music will always be produced, just like art, the real talent is looking to create something NEW and ORIGINAL. If you don't like it, that would be your problem*, and have nothing to do with sound quality!

Some people will go over past music looking for inspiration, others will try to avoid it lest they end up sounding the same.

*and mine too, I'm not a fan of the music you're describing. Check out the latest CreepJoint album, you might be surprised

[flyfisher]

[quote name='kurosawa' timestamp='1357641266' post='1925676']
For critical listening, I have a ratty old pair of Sony MDR-V6 (ready for yet another pair of cushions) and a jogger-sized Philips CD player (tried Sony and something else, [b]but the Philips algorithm is the best, most mercilessly accurate I've found[/b]). I wouldn't be able to replicate the level of performance they give for at least $30,000, and I wouldn't be able to afford even a fraction of that.
[/quote]

What sort of algorithms are used in CD players? I thought it was just a simple DAC process to convert the uncompressed digital data back into an analogue signal.

[dincz]

I don't believe mp3 or any other compressed data format deserves the bashing it gets. In the early days, 128kbps mp3 was promoted as "near CD" quality. That's obviously rubbish, but high bitrate mp3, e.g. 320kbps, is to the vast majority of listeners indistinguishable from a CD. After all, the mp3 algorithm was developed AFTER listening tests determined what part of the audio signal could be thrown away without noticeable degradation.

And the more moving parts that can be eliminated from sound recording and reproduction gear the better. Who really misses wow and flutter, scratches and pops and tape hiss?

[BigRedX]

[quote name='BurritoBass' timestamp='1357642987' post='1925707']
I always favoured buying more music when I was younger rather than getting a decent stereo. The quest for finding great albums was greater than the desire to hear them sounding at their best. About 3 years ago I was running out of ideas for artists to explore so I went to Richer Sounds and bought a decent set of speakers, a good amp, a turntable etc. What a difference - although I find it preferable having the massive collection of music to enjoy with it. I remember a kid at school (1980s) who had the top of the range stereo and only about 3 albums which I never got. He equally couldn't get why I had 200 records and a cheap dansette. We're all different I guess.
[/quote]

Very much this.

Remember also that pop music was mixed to sound good when coming out of the small elliptical speaker of an AM radio as well a decent HiFi. Despite what "audiophiles" were trying to tell us we weren't missing out that much.

Edited January 8, 2013 by BigRedX