Nostromo Posted January 9, 2013 Share Posted January 9, 2013 (edited) Happy New Year all, Not quite sure where this topic ought to go - but thought I’d post it here ? As well as play bass, I also look after the band PA and desk at our gigs, and, need to buy some bass bins to compliment the full range PA speakers we use. We’ve been borrowing some bass bins over the last year or so (one Yorkville LS808 and one OHM LM-S to be precise) and each has been driven by a Crown CE2000 that we already have. Availability of these bins has now gone - so need to buy our own. Having surveyed the market I’ve discovered that either of the PA subs we’ve been using would be pretty expensive to buy – probably over a grand for either pair – so was wondering quite how the VFM and law of ever diminishing returns applied to PA bass cabs ? . . I’ve googled a bit and found a make called ALTO on the net, their SX range of 15” & 18” subs are about half the price of the market leaders – wondered if any of you bass players out there had any views on good VFM bins and how much it's necessary to spend . . after all it's mostly Bass reinforcement and Kick Drums down in this frequency range. To my ear, the ones we’ve been using sounded fairly similar, the Yorkville was a bit more efficient so didn’t need quite so much amp gain to balance the OHM LM-S, and it’s the fact that they both sounded similar had me wondering whether there’s actually that much difference other than power handling obviously ? . . Bottom line is, you could buy 4 Alto’s for the price of Two Yorkvilles . . and I wonder which would sound the best if one A/B’d that four verses two alternative ? . . So . . several questions here I guess . . . . and what with Bass Bins not being exactly easy to audition or compare in a live meaningfull way . . any thoughts much appreciated . . if we bass players cant tell the difference then who’s going to ? cheers Edited January 9, 2013 by Nostromo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Acebassmusic Posted January 9, 2013 Share Posted January 9, 2013 I used to use a pair of Electrovoice S118 (18") bins for bottom end. They were pretty good but I never seemed to get that kick drum punch / cut through from them. After looking around at different types I went for a pair of Turbosound TXD-115 (15") subs. These are smaller, lighter, clearer and give a better sound at all volume levels! The wattage specs dont seem to compare to the Yorkville you have been using....however I tried to use 2 pairs of TXD-115s for a gig at the Aberdeen Beach Ballroom (capacity 4 to 500) a couple of months ago as I thought we might need a bit more weight in the sound. They worked great.....too much in fact that I ended up taking one pair out and using only one set for a full 5 piece band & drums mic'd up! I've since decided to get rid of the extra pair. As far as pricing theyre about £1,000 new for a pair but can be picked up for about half that secondhand. I've no experience of the Alto gear so cant comment on them. [url="http://www.turbosound.com/upload-files/File/technical/user_manuals/txdman.pdf"]http://www.turbosound.com/upload-files/File/technical/user_manuals/txdman.pdf[/url] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nottswarwick Posted January 9, 2013 Share Posted January 9, 2013 What budget have you got? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nostromo Posted January 9, 2013 Author Share Posted January 9, 2013 (edited) Budget ? . . . . well the less spent the better . . . . . could got to £800 or maybe even £1K max but wouldn't do that unless I was convinced I was getting a lot "extra" ? . . for the money ? . . . £600 would be a comfortable and more sencible target price . . . Have been thinking more about this "4" verses "2" cab issue - and am seriously wondering how 4 of the cheaper Alto's would perform when linked up and directly compared to, say, 2 Yorkvilles or equivalent leading brands ?. . . all other things being equal that is ? . . . . Edited January 9, 2013 by Nostromo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Starr Posted January 9, 2013 Share Posted January 9, 2013 Our ears aren't very sensitive below 150Hz where the bass bins are active and these frequencies are going to be less critical than the 500=5000 range where most of the music is. Given that you are using a separate amp and an active crossover to drive the bins you have some flexibility to match up the bins with your top units. Ideally you'd look for something where you know it will handle the power you are putting in. For bass bins the limiting factor is usually the excursion of the speaker (Xmax). They can all usually handle a lot of power without burning out but lots of deep bass demands that the cones can move a long way before the voice coils leave the magnet gap and some of the cheapies won't do that very well. A lot of the specs they give you are based on measurements taken at low power and extrapolated. If you know what drivers are in the cabs you can check xmax which needs an absolute minimum of 4mm but this information can be hard to find. On the plus side second hand bass bins are usually bargain prices, I picked up a couple of Yamaha S118's for £150 and there are a lot of cheap Peaveys out there fitted with the Black widow drivers which are OK. I'd never recommend the Peavey full range speakers but the bins are OK. Ideally look for something which roughly matches the sensitivity of your tops from a name manufacturer, if money is tight then I don't think these will critically affect your sound, though doubtless others will disagree. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nostromo Posted January 9, 2013 Author Share Posted January 9, 2013 Thanks for that, Yea, am using a Rane active crossover which allows me to select the crossover slope I want, and yes, the tops are powered by a seperate power amp. So I can tune the crossover point and vary the gain of the signal sent to the tops or subs . . . . as well as, of course, trim the master vols on the Crown CE2000 amps that I have to drive the sub bins. In theory I could put 2000w into each cab, but havent often needed to run them flat out - except at a couple of outside events I did last summer. Cheers, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Starr Posted January 13, 2013 Share Posted January 13, 2013 Oh, I was looking for some monitors on ebay this morning and there are loads of bins on there of all qualities. This is a good time to buy, people are skint after Christmas and the bidding is often quite weak Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3below Posted January 13, 2013 Share Posted January 13, 2013 Take a look at Bill Fitzmaurice's web site. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monckyman Posted January 14, 2013 Share Posted January 14, 2013 Ditto the bill fitzmaurice. If you can build a couple of his T39s you'll have the perfect solution. I'm currently winding myself up to build a pair to replace my ageing Black widow PVs. The horn loaded design will sh*t on anything front loaded for less watts and £ If you have 800 notes then you could afford Mackie 1801 active boxes and leave the amp at home. The Altos look ok, and they make half decent wedges too The TS sub range. Or, H&K do a touring range of subs that tick the boxes too. Good luck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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