Stan_da_man Posted January 11, 2013 Share Posted January 11, 2013 [quote name='LukeFRC' timestamp='1357864200' post='1929904']I do, I've bought quite a few things "to try" knowing that I won't make much loss on them if it doesn't work out. [/quote] Why buy it then if you know you're not going to keep it? I go to my local music shop "to try" stuff out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LukeFRC Posted January 11, 2013 Share Posted January 11, 2013 [quote name='Stan_da_man' timestamp='1357904059' post='1930235'] Why buy it then if you know you're not going to keep it? I go to my local music shop "to try" stuff out. [/quote] Mainly as I have more than one bass. I used to have two keepers and one that I would buy/sell to try things, if I found something that fitted then I would keep it and maybe sell one of the other ones. To try it out there was a valenti jazz on here (which music shop will you find that in?) which was cheap enough to try - if it had worked out I would have kept it. But it didn't so I sold it to a very happy funkyspuke for the same price and it's still his main bass. It worked out for him and not for me. Likewise I bought another FSR Fender Jazz bass, the most expensive thing I've bought - knowing that if situations changed I would have had a great bass for a while and not lost a silly amount of money. Things changed and I ended up selling it (for the same amount I bought it for) to a guy in Barcelona - again a bass he had been after for years and is his main bass. Both basses there you wouldn't find in shops, (you're near bass direct, I'm not!) neither would you a Peavey T40, a Cimar 1909, and much of the old japanese stuff that's quite fun. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcnach Posted January 11, 2013 Share Posted January 11, 2013 (edited) [quote name='Stan_da_man' timestamp='1357904059' post='1930235'] Why buy it then if you know you're not going to keep it? I go to my local music shop "to try" stuff out. [/quote] In a shop you try it in an environment very different from the one you will use it in, for a limited amount of time. If you buy it, you can truly give it a good try. I also have bought stuff second hand because I wanted to try... and sell them on if I didn't want to. IN particular, at one point I bought maybe 7-8 overdrive pedals. Tried them all side by side, and chose to keep two. I did something similar with octave and envelope filters. Shops are ok for some things. But nothing beats trying equipment in my own environment, in "real life". Also, shops tend to have a limited range. Many things I am interested in I just cannot go to one shop and try. I would have to find which shops have it, and it would require me to travel to X for one thing, to Y for another... nah, it's not worth it. I go to a shop when I want something specific and it's convenient for me to go (otherwise, online), or because I want to browse and see what they have and what temps me. Sometimes I have also bought new when I was not entirely sure I would want to keep something... Sometimes I don't keep it, but I'm sure I gave it a fair try. It works for me. Edited January 11, 2013 by mcnach Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KingMacca Posted January 13, 2013 Author Share Posted January 13, 2013 Lots of good things to look at in here thanks. Somebody said buy a squier and with the savings get decent lessons - it's actually a good shout, I'd like to get to the next level before I treat myself to a new bass I think give me a reward to aim for. Another good point is why not just buy custom instead of off the shelf - some of those ACG's are just so desirable, and for the price I think are probably a better buy. So in the end I got what I wanted out of the thread thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrTaff Posted January 13, 2013 Share Posted January 13, 2013 [quote name='Stan_da_man' timestamp='1357904059' post='1930235'] Why buy it then if you know you're not going to keep it? I go to my local music shop "to try" stuff out. [/quote] It's hard to tell by playing in a shop how a bass will sound in a band situation, I've bought a few basses that sounded great in the shop, but when it came to playing with the band at gig volume they just got buried under the two guitars & got quickly sold on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mckendrick Posted January 13, 2013 Share Posted January 13, 2013 (edited) [quote name='Stan_da_man' timestamp='1357830153' post='1929178'] Yeah for sure, though I don't buy a bass with regards to how much I will get for it when I sell it. [/quote] Bit flippant, that.... especially with the smiley. So you spend a grand on a bass and you don't baulk at only being able to get two hundred quid for it at the end of it's use to you? You're either stinking rich or........ ....something. . Edited January 13, 2013 by mckendrick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apa Posted January 13, 2013 Share Posted January 13, 2013 Squier VM 5 Maple neck with plastic inlays..................... [IMG]http://i1160.photobucket.com/albums/q491/apasher/21052012102_zps34b880ab.jpg[/IMG] A Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul S Posted January 13, 2013 Share Posted January 13, 2013 Different people have different experiences, it seems. I had the long term loan of a '98 USA Standard Precision and found it ok but nothing special. And certainly not a patch on my MIJ mid 80s Power Jazz Special which I would say is the nicest put together instrument I have played. I think you've just got to kiss a lot of frogs before you find a prince. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skywalker Posted January 13, 2013 Share Posted January 13, 2013 I have one of each of these, a 2009 Squier CV and a MIM Fender. The Fender has a satin finish neck but a crappy bridge, the Squier has a hi-mass bridge and a gloss finish neck. I have Fender flats on the Fender and Jazz Flats on the Squier (much more expensive). We recorded some stuff recently so that we could listen to what we are doing wrong, and used both basses during the recording. They play equally well, but the Squier sounds much better on the recordings. That may be the better strings. I paid about £250 second hand for the Squier and about £375 new for the MIM I think. For me the Squier wins. Hope this helps Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iconic Posted January 13, 2013 Share Posted January 13, 2013 [quote name='apa' timestamp='1358092587' post='1932930'] Squier VM 5 Maple neck with plastic inlays..................... A [/quote] and that piccy shows it's proper binding too Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andydye Posted January 13, 2013 Share Posted January 13, 2013 ...one's pretty good but way overpriced and the other is excellent value for money? ...maybe... ;-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apa Posted January 13, 2013 Share Posted January 13, 2013 [quote name='iconic' timestamp='1358104756' post='1933238'] and that piccy shows it's proper binding too [/quote] Maybe I took the roadworn look a bit too far A Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yorks5stringer Posted January 14, 2013 Share Posted January 14, 2013 (edited) [quote name='iconic' timestamp='1358104756' post='1933238'] and that piccy shows it's proper binding too [/quote] I stand corrected, but how can proper inlays and binding look so "transfer" like...? In fact I'm going to go and closely look at mine again! .......Well in the cold light of day, what looked shiny and ersatz is in fact "proper job"! Edited January 14, 2013 by yorks5stringer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apa Posted January 14, 2013 Share Posted January 14, 2013 (edited) [quote name='mcnach' timestamp='1357869958' post='1929941'] there was a lot of this argument early on "they are inlays" "no they are painted!". It turns out they ARE inlays, not painted on, despite appearances. Google search, you will find pictures demonstrating this. [/quote] [quote name='yorks5stringer' timestamp='1358176752' post='1934277'] I stand corrected, but how can proper inlays and binding look so "transfer" like...? In fact I'm going to go and closely look at mine again! .......Well in the cold light of day, what looked shiny and ersatz is in fact "proper job"! [/quote] Here.................... [url="http://basschat.co.uk/topic/155849-squier-vm-jazz-love-story-question-of-pickups/"]http://basschat.co.u...ion-of-pickups/[/url] Can we all agree now?? A EDIT: and for all the trouble Ive gone to sorting all this bickering out heres an unashamed plug for whare that neck ended up...................... [url="http://basschat.co.uk/topic/189935-lucie-uber-deluxe-jazz-v/page__fromsearch__1"]http://basschat.co.uk/topic/189935-lucie-uber-deluxe-jazz-v/page__fromsearch__1[/url] Edited January 14, 2013 by apa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XB26354 Posted January 14, 2013 Share Posted January 14, 2013 They didn't used to, at least with the binding. When I was teaching a student bought one of the first 4-strings. The binding was painted on. You could see this because at the headstock end someone had forgotten to paint the thickness of the binding into the curve - unless they took the trouble to apply 0.5mm binding. A very close look confirmed that it was one piece of wood on the fingerboard. I always assumed the inlays were real, though. Good basses for the money but the Squier Classic Vibe is on a different level IMHO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apa Posted January 14, 2013 Share Posted January 14, 2013 [quote name='XB26354' timestamp='1358189849' post='1934594'] They didn't used to, at least with the binding. When I was teaching a student bought one of the first 4-strings. The binding was painted on. You could see this because at the headstock end someone had forgotten to paint the thickness of the binding into the curve - unless they took the trouble to apply 0.5mm binding. A very close look confirmed that it was one piece of wood on the fingerboard. I always assumed the inlays were real, though. Good basses for the money but the Squier Classic Vibe is on a different level IMHO. [/quote] Controversail!! A Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyfisher Posted January 14, 2013 Share Posted January 14, 2013 I know the old argument about cheap far east labour making prices much lower than US-made instruments, but how much actual labour is there in a bass guitar anyway? As someone has already pointed out, CNC machines make light work of most things so isn't it really just about assembly, and how long does that take? Even allowing an hour per bass, how does that equate to a price difference of around £1000 or more? I don't think US workers are paid THAT much more than their far eastern counterparts are they? Smells like a lot of marketing hype is involved to me . . . . and expensive bass has got to be better than a cheaper one right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcnach Posted January 14, 2013 Share Posted January 14, 2013 [quote name='iconic' timestamp='1358104756' post='1933238'] and that piccy shows it's proper binding too [/quote] it had! until apa got his hands on it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kerley Posted January 14, 2013 Share Posted January 14, 2013 Let's say it takes 6 hours labour to make a bass (there is much more to it than CNCing a body). Labour time for moving parts around, cutting frets, putting frets in, sorting edges, doing electrics putting all hardware on, painting etc, and 6 hours doesn't seem like much. An average fully loaded cost for US labour is around $100 per hour (includes holiday, insurance, lighting etc,. etc,) so those 6 hours become $600. Those same 6 hours in China may cost $100 so you start to see where the money goes. Go Chinese builder, go. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yorks5stringer Posted January 14, 2013 Share Posted January 14, 2013 [quote name='apa' timestamp='1358188416' post='1934566'] Here.................... [url="http://basschat.co.uk/topic/155849-squier-vm-jazz-love-story-question-of-pickups/"]http://basschat.co.u...ion-of-pickups/[/url] Can we all agree now?? A EDIT: and for all the trouble Ive gone to sorting all this bickering out heres an unashamed plug for whare that neck ended up...................... [url="http://basschat.co.uk/topic/189935-lucie-uber-deluxe-jazz-v/page__fromsearch__1"]http://basschat.co.u...__fromsearch__1[/url] [/quote] I have actually held, if not played said Bass! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
afterimage Posted January 14, 2013 Share Posted January 14, 2013 .squires are very good try them out. I still think fenders are over priced though Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apa Posted January 15, 2013 Share Posted January 15, 2013 [quote name='yorks5stringer' timestamp='1358202990' post='1934954'] I have actually held, if not played said Bass! [/quote] You have indeed Sir And just to answer the original OP. Squiers are indeed very good instruments however it does depend on the range you try. The VM series are on a par if not better than Fenders. The Affinity range are the bargain basment but it is reflected in the cost so not a comparison. The caviat that 'it was probably a bad one' When excusing Fenders says it all in terms of overall quality. That statement shouldnt really enter the equation when spending that much money on a famous brand. With regard to the costs. Yes the actual assembly of the instrument is a big factor. You should also remember the running overheads of it all as well. Every aspect from the electricity, property, admin, transport, raw materials costs etc etc all add up. I dont thing there is much difference in the profit margine between the two. A Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iconic Posted January 15, 2013 Share Posted January 15, 2013 CVJ v VMJ...it's all about the necks isn't it......& looks.... both very good for the money, but CV neck gloss, VM neck satin poor OP...'tis another CV VM bunfight now but whom can say those VMJ's don't look the Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Rich Posted January 15, 2013 Share Posted January 15, 2013 [quote name='kerley' timestamp='1358199221' post='1934835'] Let's say it takes 6 hours labour to make a bass (there is much more to it than CNCing a body). Labour time for moving parts around, cutting frets, putting frets in, sorting edges, doing electrics putting all hardware on, painting etc, and 6 hours doesn't seem like much. An average fully loaded cost for US labour is around $100 per hour (includes holiday, insurance, lighting etc,. etc,) so those 6 hours become $600. Those same 6 hours in China may cost $100 so you start to see where the money goes. Go Chinese builder, go. [/quote] Last time I looked China was paying factory workers between $1 and $3 and hour, so it's probably more like $10 to $18. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyfisher Posted January 15, 2013 Share Posted January 15, 2013 OK, but even if the labour DOES account for the huge price differences, aren't we still talking about basically the same end result? In which case why pay an extra £1000 or so for the 'MIA' label? This isn't just a bass guitar issue, it's a huge problem for 'western' manufacturing. Increased automation might be able to drive down the labour hours in a product but reality is that the higher average standard of living enjoyed in the USA trickles through to the cost of their manufacturing compared with the Chinese. I wonder how long before labour costs begin to equalise as the Chinese standard of living increases rapidly in coming decades? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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