Fender Jazz vs Squier Jazz - what's the difference

[KingMacca]

Can someone who has played or owned these basses give me some opinions please?

http://www.gak.co.uk/en/fender-american-vintage-75-jazz-bass-natural-maple/15812

http://www.thomann.de/gb/fender_squier_vint_mod_jazz_nt.htm

The fender is obviously significantly more expensive than the squier, but to my very novice touch and feel I couldn't find anything radically different about them other than the name on the headstock and a higher end finish on the Fender.

I really like that style of Jazz and almost bought a 2nd hand Fender recently until someone let me play their Squier which was virtually identical.

What am I missing here? or am I missing nothing except brand name snobbery?

ta

[gjones]

I've owned a standard Squier Jazz made in Indonesia in 2001, a Japanese Squier Jazz bass made in 1994, A Geddy Lee Fender Jazz Bass made in Japan in 2004, and a 62 reissue Fender Jazz bass also made in Japan in 1996. Both the Squiers were the equal of the Fenders in feel and sound. And there wasn't much between them when you compared quality of construction. These days most Squiers and Fenders are made with computerised lathes, so you can make them anywhere in the world you can transport your machinery. The biggest difference is price and that is down to labour costs - you can pay a worker in Indonesia or China a lot less than you would in Japan or the States.

Edited January 9, 2013 by gjones

[White Cloud]

[quote name='gjones' timestamp='1357768207' post='1928230']
I've owned a standard Squier Jazz made in Indonesia in 2001, a Japanese Squier Jazz bass made in 1994, A Geddy Lee Fender Jazz Bass made in Japan in 2004, and a 62 reissue Fender Jazz bass also made in Japan in 1996. Both the Squiers were the equal of the Fenders in feel and sound. And there wasn't much between them when you compared quality of construction. These days most Squiers and Fenders are made with computerised lathes, so you can make them anywhere in the world you can transport your machinery. The biggest difference is price and that is down to labour costs - you can pay a worker in Indonesia or China a lot less than you would in Japan or the States.
[/quote]

Very valid and true statement. One nit pick though, it is actually computerised CNC routing machines that do the machining and not lathes.

Lathes are for woodworking "in the round"...and not guitar building

[GuyR]

There is a wide range of variation in feel, sound and weight between supposedly identical basses, so it may be the American Fender was a below-average one and the Squier a good one. If you are a "novice" (God, I hate to sound patronising and do not wish to sound rude) you might find as you become more experienced, the differences become more apparent.

If you are going to play long-term, in my opinion you are well advised to buy the best quality bass you can, 2nd hand. This will hold you back the least, give the most enjoyment, not need upgrading and will retain the highest proportion of its value, should you need to sell it. I bought nice quality Jazzes 30 years ago and still use them regularly.

Good luck

[machinehead]

I've owned both of these (still own the US '75 reissue) and while the US bass is better built, has better hardware, superior pickups, is lighter in weight, is better balanced, has nicer body wood, has a far better feeling neck and frets, sounds better (subjective), has real neck inlays not painted ones, is finished to a higher standard and comes with a nice vintage hardcase, chrome pickup covers, (not fitted) and all the usual US case candy..............I still don't think it's worth about £1400 more than the Squier.

Both are good bass guitars and I thoroughly recommend the Squier - excellent basses for a bargain price.

Frank.

[Cygnus x-1]

[quote name='machinehead' timestamp='1357769655' post='1928269']
I've owned both of these (still own the US '75 reissue) and while the US bass is better built, has better hardware, superior pickups, is lighter in weight, is better balanced, has nicer body wood, has a far better feeling neck and frets, sounds better (subjective), [u][b]has real neck inlays not painted ones[/b][/u], is finished to a higher standard and comes with a nice vintage hardcase, chrome pickup covers, (not fitted) and all the usual US case candy..............I still don't think it's worth about £1400 more than the Squier.

Both are good bass guitars and I thoroughly recommend the Squier - excellent basses for a bargain price.

Frank.
[/quote]

not an expert but, I thought the Squier VMJ had real neck inlays.

[Wylie]

[quote name='GuyR' timestamp='1357769223' post='1928258']
There is a wide range of variation in feel, sound and weight between supposedly identical basses, so it may be the American Fender was a below-average one and the Squier a good one. If you are a "novice" (God, I hate to sound patronising and do not wish to sound rude) you might find as you become more experienced, the differences become more apparent.

[/quote]

1+ I've owned Squier '77 jazz model (Indonesian make) and now Geddy Lee jazz (Japan) and the differences are large, not small. While the Squier is a good bass, the Japanese-made Fender is superior in all areas.

Edited January 15, 2013 by tedgilley

[iconic]

That's quite a difference between bass price ranges!

The VMJ should and could be all the bass you need for the moment, plenty of players gig them. If you know you are into bass time and can afford the US jazz I'd have that one though in a flash!

[hamfist]

It seems that with Squiers and Fenders (MIM, MIK & MIA) there are good and bad ones in all series. I'd strongly suspect that the % of good to bad decreases significantly as you go up the price range. Pretty much all of them will require a good setup from new though.
The key things that you'll get with a more expensive Fender every time though is better hardware ... pickups, bridge, tuners, electronics. The more you pay, the "better" they get, although with pickups this is slightly more subjective.
Also, you tend to get graphite re-inforcing rods in the MIA Fender necks, although with this particular '75 re-issue I'm not actually sure on that. Generally fret work and basic neck stability, straightness and playability should be better with a more expensive Fender also, although not always. There are MIA Fender "dogs" around and also Squier gems.
The general rule that everyone will repeat ad nauseum is to play a LOAD of all sorts, and then pick out the ONE bass that does it for you. The one that feels and sounds in a way that resonates nicely with what you want a bass to sound like. That's more difficult for those without a good range of music stores within easy driving distance. But then, there is the beauty of the distance selling regulations in the UK which lets you order a bass, try it at home (or out, if you're REALLY careful and a bit brave) and return it if you want. Despite living near a large city in the South of England I don't have many decent stores at all that close, so I often do order stuff unseen and online. If you're buying a new Fender/Squier bass this way, then your chances of getting a good 'un are definitely better the more expensive the range you go for.

[ead]

At the risk of being burned as a witch (again ) for heresy, you could get a very lovely hand-crafted ACG Graft J type bass for about 1/2 the price of an MIA Fender. Or go the whole hog for about the same money.

http://www.acguitars.co.uk/Available/37/

[Conan]

In use, I find the biggest difference to be the pickups. Squier ones just tend to sound a bit "watery" and weak IMO. Still, with after-market pickups fairly cheap and easy to come by second hand on here, it's not a problem to whip out the standard ones and pop something decent in!

There are other differences of course, but not as noticeable to me.

[hamfist]

[quote name='ead' timestamp='1357805181' post='1928530']
At the risk of being burned as a witch (again ) for heresy, you could get a very lovely hand-crafted ACG Graft J type bass for about 1/2 the price of an MIA Fender. Or go the whole hog for about the same money.

[url="http://www.acguitars.co.uk/Available/37/"]http://www.acguitars...k/Available/37/[/url]
[/quote]

ACG 4 string dual pickup passive - £785 (plus a few months wait time I suspect)

MIA American Special Jazz, black, maple neck, current model - £696.55 via Thomann, free delivery of course, and available now.

MIA American Standard Jazz, black, maple neck., current model. £1025.68, giving you the high mass bridge and custom shop pickups and a hard case (if you want to spend the extra on those things). and available now, of course.

So really the price of Fenders if you shops wisely is not so excessive.

[kerley]

This often discussed topic would be a lot simpler if data was available around the base cost of the parts and the labour time/cost were seperated out.
For example, if the exact same Squier Affinity was made in US it may cost £400 rather than £170. That would clearly put in perspective where the cost is going and I would imagine nobody would be buying the US made version (with exception of gung ho US people!)
The problem is that it is not this clear and the US Fender is not the same product as the Chinese Squier so justifications are made for the Fender cost around materials and parts where in reality these differences are probably minimal but nobody knows.

[LukeFRC]

[quote name='hamfist' timestamp='1357810216' post='1928604']
ACG 4 string dual pickup passive - £785 (plus a few months wait time I suspect)

MIA American Special Jazz, black, maple neck, current model - £696.55 via Thomann, free delivery of course, and available now.

MIA American Standard Jazz, black, maple neck., current model. £1025.68, giving you the high mass bridge and custom shop pickups and a hard case (if you want to spend the extra on those things). and available now, of course.

So really the price of Fenders if you shops wisely is not so excessive.
[/quote] I agree that ead's description of "half the price" isn't really true... but the difference between an ACG and the low end Fender USA ranges is massive! One is individually made by a wee guy up in scotland, and one is a mass produced item. How Alan can make them profitably at that price and/or how Fender can justify such high prices for mass produced stuff... I don't understand!

So Squier and Fender - there will be good ones and bad ones. I've played mexican fenders that could blow most basses out the water reagrdless on where they come from. The main differences beyond the construction tolerances will be the woods - mainly the body wood (though it's debatable if that makes much difference) and the pickup that is easily replaceable.

[johnDeereJack]

Along with Machinehead above, I've owned both of these basses and still have the US '75 RI which I bought on the strength of the Squier; my reasoning being if a £250 Indonesian built bass plays and sounds as well as it does (and it does, believe me!) how much better will a £1000 US built bass be? The answer is 'A lot'. The Fender is without a doubt the best bass I've ever played and I have to agree with Machinehead regarding the materials used, the build quality, electrics & pickups etc.
Don't get me wrong, the Squier is a fabulous bass and I recommend buying it but if you can find a 2nd hand US RI you should opt for that instead. Trust me, you won't regret it!

[Stan_da_man]

[quote name='hamfist' timestamp='1357810216' post='1928604']
ACG 4 string dual pickup passive - £785 (plus a few months wait time I suspect)

MIA American Special Jazz, black, maple neck, current model - £696.55 via Thomann, free delivery of course, and available now.

MIA American Standard Jazz, black, maple neck., current model. £1025.68, giving you the high mass bridge and custom shop pickups and a hard case (if you want to spend the extra on those things). and available now, of course.

So really the price of Fenders if you shops wisely is not so excessive.
[/quote]
I don't know if you have played an ACG but the QC is very impressive - why buy a Fender when you can have a quality hand made instrument with your choice of options for (pretty much) the same price? No brainer to me.

[Fat Rich]

I wouldn't worry what name or country of manufacture is on the headstock, there are good and bad examples of all of them.

I'd say just play as many as you can get your hands on until you find one you like, I'd think twice about buying online without trying first.

[Conan]

[quote name='Stan_da_man' timestamp='1357816787' post='1928777']
I don't know if you have played an ACG but the QC is very impressive - why buy a Fender when you can have a quality hand made instrument with your choice of options for (pretty much) the same price? No brainer to me.
[/quote]

For some people, resale value is a major consideration. A used Fender will usually command a higher price second hand than any handmade one-off. There is also the (very long term!) potential for appreciation. Not that I'm bothered about such things, but some people are.

[4 Strings]

[quote name='hamfist' timestamp='1357810216' post='1928604']
ACG 4 string dual pickup passive - £785 (plus a few months wait time I suspect)

MIA American Special Jazz, black, maple neck, current model - £696.55 via Thomann, free delivery of course, and available now.

MIA American Standard Jazz, black, maple neck., current model. £1025.68, giving you the high mass bridge and custom shop pickups and a hard case (if you want to spend the extra on those things). and available now, of course.

So really the price of Fenders if you shops wisely is not so excessive.
[/quote]

Buying at the cheapest possible supplier is not necessarily shopping wisely.

To the OP, if he cannot tell the difference, is not fazed by headstock transfers, buy the cheap one, and if in his bass playing journey, he feels the need for a 'better' bass, have another look around. With the money saved buy lessons from the best teacher he can find, this will make much more of a difference than the subtleties between to virtually identical basses.

[Stan_da_man]

[quote name='Conan' timestamp='1357828363' post='1929104']
For some people, resale value is a major consideration. A used Fender will usually command a higher price second hand than any handmade one-off. There is also the (very long term!) potential for appreciation. Not that I'm bothered about such things, but some people are.
[/quote]
Yeah for sure, though I don't buy a bass with regards to how much I will get for it when I sell it.

[thisnameistaken]

Might also be worth looking at the '66 reissues from Japan. They look a lot like the US '75 but you get a matching headstock too and it will work out about 2/3 the price after you import one. They look really sweet and Fender Japan make great instruments.

[ead]

Don't forget inflation when considering investments either. £100 in 1970 is equivalent to around £1,300 today.

[yorks5stringer]

My recently acquired VM Squier 5 String ( and my old 4 String) has the black "inlays", but they are definitely a transfer and not a proper inlay. They are/were both quite weighty and I concur with the pick-up comment, my next job will be some better pickups.

[LukeFRC]

[quote name='johnDeereJack' timestamp='1357814177' post='1928703']
Along with Machinehead above, I've owned both of these basses and still have the US '75 RI which I bought on the strength of the Squier; my reasoning being if a £250 Indonesian built bass plays and sounds as well as it does (and it does, believe me!) how much better will a £1000 US built bass be? The answer is 'A lot'. The Fender is without a doubt the best bass I've ever played and I have to agree with Machinehead regarding the materials used, the build quality, electrics & pickups etc.
Don't get me wrong, the Squier is a fabulous bass and I recommend buying it but if you can find a 2nd hand US RI you should opt for that instead. Trust me, you won't regret it!

[/quote]

The vintage reissue series are fantastic and IMO the best production line stuff Fender USA make. If you can pick one of them up go for it!


[quote name='Stan_da_man' timestamp='1357830153' post='1929178']
Yeah for sure, though I don't buy a bass with regards to how much I will get for it when I sell it.
[/quote] I do, I've bought quite a few things "to try" knowing that I won't make much loss on them if it doesn't work out.

[mcnach]

[quote name='yorks5stringer' timestamp='1357862616' post='1929886']
My recently acquired VM Squier 5 String ( and my old 4 String) has the black "inlays", but they are definitely a transfer and not a proper inlay.
[/quote]

there was a lot of this argument early on "they are inlays" "no they are painted!".

It turns out they ARE inlays, not painted on, despite appearances.
Google search, you will find pictures demonstrating this.