Fender Jazz vs Squier Jazz - what's the difference

[kerley]

[quote name='flyfisher' timestamp='1358255177' post='1935617']
I wonder how long before labour costs begin to equalise as the Chinese standard of living increases rapidly in coming decades?
[/quote]

It will take a long time to equalise and probably never will. The services industry in India has been on the rise for 10 years yet the average salaries are still low compared to the west (even though they are increasing by 10-15% per year). When it does get closer then China will start to lose it's grip and you will suddenly find basses coming from another country (Africa?)
This will always be an issue as the west will not lower their wages and will always be far higher paid than a whole load of other countries.

My solution - use unemployed people to do manufacturing jobs in return for their benefits while they are looking for other work. The country is already paying for them after all. The UK could then partially compete with the likes of China.

Edited January 15, 2013 by kerley

[Dave Vader]

[quote name='kerley' timestamp='1358263791' post='1935887']
My solution - use unemployed people to do manufacturing jobs in return for their benefits while they are looking for other work. The country is already paying for them after all. The UK could then partially compete with the likes of China.
[/quote]

Yeah, cos there's all these unfilled manufacturing jobs being advertised all over the country right now.....
[size=4] [/size]

[kerley]

[quote name='Dave Vader' timestamp='1358265976' post='1935959']
Yeah, cos there's all these unfilled manufacturing jobs being advertised all over the country right now.....

[/quote]

Of course there aren't, they would need to be started back up. Starting from scratch and manufacturing what is in highest demand from within UK to start with. UK businesses could then use those UK manufacturers at very cheap cost from government (no wages to pay just the overheads) As long as it was cheaper than China then quids in all round.

[Dave Vader]

except perhaps for the guys doing the work for benefits.

But that's ok, cos they're scroungers right?

[kerley]

[quote name='Dave Vader' timestamp='1358268118' post='1936003']
except perhaps for the guys doing the work for benefits.

But that's ok, cos they're scroungers right?
[/quote]

Some are scroungers, but majority are not but that is irrelevant. While people are out of work and receiving money from the state they should have no problem in working in return for that money should they, after all they are actively seeking work?
They would receive minimum wage in place of benefits and they can continue to look for better paid jobs/jobs of their choice in the meantime. This is all about everyone contributing to society for the good of the whole society. It is better for morale, the country is getting more from it's citizens and parts of the manufacturing industry can move back to UK to serve the UK. Problem?

[Dave Vader]

I don't mind the idea of doing worthwhile voluntary work for benefits, but working on a factory line to lower profit margins just doesn't sit right.

[iconic]

Hmm, thought this about fender 'n Squiers

....my Squiers were great, my fender is excellent!

[kerley]

[quote name='Dave Vader' timestamp='1358283204' post='1936430']
I don't mind the idea of doing worthwhile voluntary work for benefits, but working on a factory line to lower profit margins just doesn't sit right.
[/quote]

Fair enough, just an idea. Although voluntary work would also be good.
Anyway, this came from the thought of having a "Made in the UK" Fender Precision or Jazz to the same build and standards as the USA model but half the price. Would the USA model still have an allure because it is US and that is where Fender originates from?
I can sort of see why it would just as a Rolex needs to be made in Switzerland and a cheaper one (still official Rolex) made in China just wouldn't be the same for some reason.

[Conan]

[quote name='flyfisher' timestamp='1358255177' post='1935617']
In which case why pay an extra £1000 or so for the 'MIA' label?
[/quote]

[4 Strings]

[quote name='kerley' timestamp='1358290939' post='1936684']
Fair enough, just an idea. Although voluntary work would also be good.
Anyway, this came from the thought of having a "Made in the UK" Fender Precision or Jazz to the same build and standards as the USA model but half the price. Would the USA model still have an allure because it is US and that is where Fender originates from?
I can sort of see why it would just as a Rolex needs to be made in Switzerland and a cheaper one (still official Rolex) made in China just wouldn't be the same for some reason.
[/quote]

Aren't people generally finding the Japanese Fenders more reliable and consistent than the US built basses? Still the US basses get better prices s/h.

[flyfisher]

I reckon Conan's post pretty much sums it all up.

Mind you, I suppose one real advantage of paying extra for US fenders if that they seem to hold their value pretty well, precisely because of the snobbery thing perhaps?

Having said that, I bought my new MIJ Fender P in the early 90s for £450 and reckon it's still worth that, so that's not too bad either.

[4 Strings]

Unfortunately you'll only really find out what its worth when you come to sell it. Now's not the most encouraging time to do that.

Certainly it's snobbery but mostly, I think resale value (caused by snobbery). I'm guilty of it myself, whenever I've bought a Fender (not too often!) I've only looked at the US made basses, purely for worry of resale (plus a little for the satisfaction of having the 'real thing').

To find the 'best' bass, blindfold is the only way, the transfer on the end holds too strong an influence for an objective view otherwise.

[4 Strings]

Squiers are considered 'great' (with a silent 'for the price, but its not a real Fender'). I honestly believe that the vast majority of us (everyone?) could not go into a music shop, blind folded, play a number of basses and, with any consistency beyond 'random' and chaos theories, pick the Squiers from the Fenders based on playing and sound. I know I couldn't.

However, leave the headstocks on display and I only need to look to judge them 'cheap', 'nice', 'cheap', cheap', 'nice'.

Mrs Bucket indeed.

Resale value is going to affect the Fenders more. If you buy a Squier VM Precision for £250, it might lose £100, if you buy a Fender US Standard at £900, its going to lose the total value of the Squier as you walk out the shop.

[kerley]

[quote name='4 Strings' timestamp='1358331934' post='1936988']
Squiers are considered 'great' (with a silent 'for the price, but its not a real Fender'). I honestly believe that the vast majority of us (everyone?) could not go into a music shop, blind folded, play a number of basses and, with any consistency beyond 'random' and chaos theories, pick the Squiers from the Fenders based on playing and sound. I know I couldn't.

[/quote]

And blindfold tests are what should be done first as you will then get the instrument that plays and feels the best to you. You may not be able to pick the difference between Fender or Squier but the Squier may be the one you choose blind.
You then at least know that if you don't buy the Squier it is because of issues you have rather than issues the bass has...

[greyparrot]

[list]
[*]check out my you tube...iv had many high end basses but swear by my squire...have a listen to the sound slap funk strait whatever this cheap baby does it... http://www.youtube.com/my_videos
[/list]

[4 Strings]

[quote name='kerley' timestamp='1358339396' post='1937192']
And blindfold tests are what should be done first as you will then get the instrument that plays and feels the best to you. You may not be able to pick the difference between Fender or Squier but the Squier may be the one you choose blind.
You then at least know that if you don't buy the Squier it is because of issues you have rather than issues the bass has...
[/quote]

Quite.

[jezzaboy]

I gigged a VMJ for about a year with no problems what so ever and I liked it and so did the fussy b*strd guitarist. A lot of people change out the pickups but I liked the sound from the Dunc des ones fine. They are perfectly gigable instruments and having owned several US Fenders, for my situation at least, the Squier did the biz and I may get another in the future when the cash is available.

[Lw.]

Thought I'd dredge this thread rather than starting a new one - I could do with some Fender based help please fellow basschatters...

Back Story; I've using my 5-string Warwick exclusively as my electric bass for about the last 10 years (though I do dabble with my acoustic a bit) but have recently found I have the urge to go back to 4-strings and have something with a bit more of that classic bass sound for times when the Warwick can be bit dominant (I love the Warwick sound but sometimes you don't want the brand of bass you play screamed over the track).

After playing around with a few options in shops I've decided on a passive Fender Jazz - while in the US I played one of those vintage re-issue blue with matching head-stock ones & instantly wanted it, but unfortunately it's out of my price range, so I thought maybe this would fulfill my needs; [url="http://www.gak.co.uk/en/fender-classic-series-60s-jazz-bass-lacquer-3-colour-sunburst/84068"]Classic 60's Lacquer[/url] - esp as everyone raves about the playabilitly of the Roadworns (this is a roadworn without the industrial sander being applied).

I finally tracked one down in a store & played it over the weekend - the sound was good but the neck was absolutely awful & the finish was quite poor (though maybe I've been spoiled by Warwick on these points?) - for this price I wouldn't be able (or inclined) to do any changes. It's left me unsure what to do in order to satisfy my desires! One option would be to wait for a Am Std to come up second hand that was suitable but am I mad for considering this second option;

Buy a Squire Vintage Modified then add Fender Custom Shop 60's pick-ups & get a nice neck made by Warmoth. This would come to about the same price as a classic 60's or a used Am Std but would it be as good? Are the rest of the electronics in the Squire good enough to be used like this?

Thanks!

[HowieBass]

Go and play a few Squiers in the 'flesh' if you can and then decide if you NEED to change anything at all... if the neck is comfortable and the fret ends are well dressed and if the standard pickups aren't noisy and get you there then I'd be inclined to leave as is (apart from maybe changing the tone cap if you want to get a heavier/lighter tone change). In fact having read up on this, changing the tone capacitor (for the cost of a few quid) in a passive instrument can have more of an impact than swapping out the pickups yet few people think of doing it

[Lw.]

Played a couple of Squires & never really been blown away by the necks (they've been ok but I've got used to a REALLY nice feeling neck on the Warwick) though I do admit that you do have to try them first as they vary quite a bit.

We'll see, maybe something interesting (that matches my requirements) will pop up soon in the classifieds & that'll make the decision for me!

[Paul S]

There is a Silver Series Squier Jazz in the classifieds at the moment. These have a great neck. Wider than usual Jazz - 40mm at the nut. These final MIJ Squiers are very good - I've had Silver Series Jazz and Precision, both exceedingly good. The Precision, particularly.

[machinehead]

For what it's worth my advice would be to buy a used post 2008 US jazz and be sorted with no faffing about.

No need to change anything, plus you get the superb SKB case.

And if you want to sell, you get your money back.

Frank.

[Lw.]

[quote name='machinehead' timestamp='1395781575' post='2406322']
For what it's worth my advice would be to buy a used post 2008 US jazz and be sorted with no faffing about.

No need to change anything, plus you get the superb SKB case.

And if you want to sell, you get your money back.

Frank.
[/quote]

Sounds like good advice - thanks! What changed in 2008? I know 12 was when they changed to custom shop 60s pickups, was 08 the last big change before then?

[sPiKi]

Yes there were a number of enhancements - the neck, high mass bridge, tuners etc. I have a 2010 Amer Std Jazz. Superb instrument that is versatile and enjoyable to play with great tone.

[redstriper]

[quote name='Paul S' timestamp='1395768717' post='2406055']
There is a Silver Series Squier Jazz in the classifieds at the moment. These have a great neck. Wider than usual Jazz - 40mm at the nut. These final MIJ Squiers are very good - I've had Silver Series Jazz and Precision, both exceedingly good. The Precision, particularly.
[/quote]

I've got a mid 90s Silver Series Squier Jazz and it's a superb instrument - closest to my '63 Fender that I've found.
I sold a modern Mexican Fender and Squier CV and VM Jazzes when I got it, because it's better than those for me.
But I still prefer the '63 so it never gets played and I'm thinking of selling it to help fund a Fender custom shop model.