jackers Posted January 10, 2013 Share Posted January 10, 2013 Hey all, I've been without a bass cab for about 6 months now (haven't had a need for one), but I'm starting to get some band auditions, so I've been thinking about my options for cabs. I would ideally like a single cab solution, (410 or maybe 212), as the smaller modular rigs I have had so far have not impressed me. I have a Tech 21 Landmark 300 head, which I absolutely love. It has a great tone and is everything I need in one box. It is rated at 300W at 4 Ohms and 200W and 8 Ohms. (From what I have read, it is a loud 300W.) Obviously, my first thought was to get a 4 Ohm cab, but my choices seem to be quite limited. The Ampeg SVT410HLF is the main contender I have found (or maybe the berg 610/Barefaced S12 if I really save up). Then I started wondering about just how much the perceived volume would change if I just hooked up a single 8 Ohm 410 to my Landmark. I know almost nothing about this kind of thing, so I was wondering if anyone here could help/advise me. Cheers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conan Posted January 10, 2013 Share Posted January 10, 2013 It depends. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
razze06 Posted January 10, 2013 Share Posted January 10, 2013 It's all about the loudness of the cab, not how much power you put into it! A lower impedance cab (the 4 ohm one) will draw more electricity from the amplifier, but will the speaker more air in an equally pleasing way than another cab, 4 or 8 ohm? My suggestion is to find a cab you like and buy it If it's 8ohm, you can drive 2 with the same amp, that WILL be louder than one cab! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thumperbob 2002 Posted January 10, 2013 Share Posted January 10, 2013 300W into 8OHms, if the cab is OK will be fine for all gigs. Try to get the best cab you can though- more important than the amp IMHO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conan Posted January 10, 2013 Share Posted January 10, 2013 [quote name='jackers' timestamp='1357828515' post='1929112'] Obviously, my first thought was to get a 4 Ohm cab, but my choices seem to be quite limited. The Ampeg SVT410HLF is the main contender I have found (or maybe the berg 610/Barefaced S12 if I really save up). [/quote] To repeat myself from another thread... How about one of these? 4 ohm? Check. 6x10? Check. Excellent price? Check. [url="http://basschat.co.uk/topic/195986-genz-benz-610t-xb2-l369-at-gak/page__p__1925768__hl__genz%20benz__fromsearch__1#entry1925768"]http://basschat.co.uk/topic/195986-genz-benz-610t-xb2-l369-at-gak/page__p__1925768__hl__genz%20benz__fromsearch__1#entry1925768[/url] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jackers Posted January 10, 2013 Author Share Posted January 10, 2013 thanks for the replies so far. I knew alot of it would depend on the specific cabs etc, but I don't really know much about these things I was just worried that 200W at 8 Ohms might be a bad starting point for a gigging rig, that's all. and conan, I would love one of those, but I have problems with my elbows and knees, (dislocated all 4 at various points in my life), so anything over about 40-45kg is way out of what I can comfortably lift. I have had my eye on either the Ampeg 410HLF or 410HE for a while now, but I'm not entirely sure what the difference is (other than impedance). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conan Posted January 10, 2013 Share Posted January 10, 2013 (edited) [quote name='jackers' timestamp='1357831733' post='1929207'] and conan, I would love one of those, but I have problems with my elbows and knees, (dislocated all 4 at various points in my life), so anything over about 40-45kg is way out of what I can comfortably lift. I have had my eye on either the Ampeg 410HLF or 410HE for a while now, but I'm not entirely sure what the difference is (other than impedance). [/quote] The Ampeg 410HLF is around 50kg too... and twice the price! The HE is lighter and cheaper. Take your point about the weight though. Edited January 10, 2013 by Conan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jackers Posted January 10, 2013 Author Share Posted January 10, 2013 (edited) [quote name='Conan' timestamp='1357832297' post='1929220'] The Ampegs are around 50kg too... and twice the price! Take your point about the weight though. [/quote] the HLF is 38.5kg and the HE is 41kg, which are a bit lighter, but still weighty you are right. The problem I am having is that the stuff I know sounds nice and can afford (second hand) is pretty heavy, but the lighter stuff is alot more expensive, and it is very difficult for me to get anywhere to try it out. Edited January 10, 2013 by jackers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conan Posted January 10, 2013 Share Posted January 10, 2013 [quote name='jackers' timestamp='1357832576' post='1929229'] The problem I am having is that the stuff I know sounds nice and can afford (second hand) is pretty heavy, but the lighter stuff is alot more expensive, and it is very difficult for me to get anywhere to try it out. [/quote] That's a common problem unfortunately... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LiamPodmore Posted January 10, 2013 Share Posted January 10, 2013 Gallien Krueger MBE 2x12 with a bit of extra bracing. I think the Mk.1 models are still in stock on Thomann for around the £200 mark. Liam Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jackers Posted January 10, 2013 Author Share Posted January 10, 2013 (edited) [quote name='Conan' timestamp='1357834097' post='1929256'] That's a common problem unfortunately... [/quote] Yea, I've noticed My gf is very supportive of my bass playing addiction, but she nearly had a heart attack when I showed her how much the BF and Berg stuff cost and tbh, I can see where see is coming from. When I have to pay rent, bills, council tax and buy food, having somewhere in the region of £1k of bass cab sat around getting 1 use a week seems a bit silly :S (a bit OT, but oh well ) EDIT: cheers Liam, I always forget about the GK MBE stuff. I've heard mixed things about it but for £200 it could be a good entry solution. Edited January 10, 2013 by jackers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xgsjx Posted January 10, 2013 Share Posted January 10, 2013 I'd suggest 2 decent 2x10s. Stack em vertically & you should have a decent rig. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stingrayPete1977 Posted January 10, 2013 Share Posted January 10, 2013 Bass Direct cant be too far from Oxford Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deepbass5 Posted January 10, 2013 Share Posted January 10, 2013 If cash is tight go and see Gary at the music box cowley rd. he should have something in there that will do the business and not break the bank. unlike the new stuff up the road. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jackers Posted January 10, 2013 Author Share Posted January 10, 2013 [quote name='stingrayPete1977' timestamp='1357841023' post='1929417'] Bass Direct cant be too far from Oxford [/quote] It's not too far, but without a car it's a pain to get to and I have been into the music box a couple of times, nice place. I shall have a visit at some point soon to see what is around. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lozz196 Posted January 10, 2013 Share Posted January 10, 2013 If looking for a good 4ohm 212, Evil Undead has - think it`s still up - a Markbass NY212 for grabs on here. That would be a good one solution cab, and at 50lbs in weight, easy on the back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimR Posted January 12, 2013 Share Posted January 12, 2013 Get an 8ohm cab. You can then add another 8ohm cab later if need be. If you buy a 4ohm and it's not loud enough, you'll have to sell it and buy two cabs or something else. You're not in a band yet so don't know how loud you'll need to be. The watts rated are electrical not volume related. All this 'full power from the amp' is a bit of a red herring. Look at the SPL values for the cabs and trust your ears. I own 2 400w Warwick pro 2x10s. 103dB. One for practices and small gigs, two for big gigs. Never had the volume past 1/3 with unmiked drummer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jackers Posted January 13, 2013 Author Share Posted January 13, 2013 Ok, so if I go for an 8 Ohm cab I would like it to be a 410 or 210 I reckon. If I get a 410, would adding a 210 from the same manufacturer as a second cab be a good idea? or should I just go with 2 of the same cab. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RandomBass Posted January 13, 2013 Share Posted January 13, 2013 [quote name='TimR' timestamp='1358019790' post='1932040'] Get an 8ohm cab. You can then add another 8ohm cab later if need be. If you buy a 4ohm and it's not loud enough, you'll have to sell it and buy two cabs or something else. You're not in a band yet so don't know how loud you'll need to be. The watts rated are electrical not volume related. All this 'full power from the amp' is a bit of a red herring. Look at the SPL values for the cabs and trust your ears. [/quote] This, several times over. Unless you are buying a BF S12 or S15, in which case that's all you will ever need. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lozz196 Posted January 13, 2013 Share Posted January 13, 2013 [quote name='jackers' timestamp='1358074608' post='1932550'] Ok, so if I go for an 8 Ohm cab I would like it to be a 410 or 210 I reckon. If I get a 410, would adding a 210 from the same manufacturer as a second cab be a good idea? or should I just go with 2 of the same cab. [/quote] I`ve done this and it works nicely. 2 of the same cab is probably the best option, but if funds/space in the car don`t allow (wise to check this part out), this is a good alternative. Just make sure the 210 is capable of handling the power though. If a 500 watt amp, it needs to handle 250 watts - not that I`d expect you to be running the amp at full - I`d probably hear it from here Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jackers Posted January 13, 2013 Author Share Posted January 13, 2013 (edited) cheers guys some very helpful stuff here. The main reason for the question about the 410/210 option is because my car won't fit 2 410s in it without some serious tetris-ing I am currently tempted by an ampeg 410he and 210av pair, or maybe the tech 21 B410 in the for sale section to go with my Landmark head. Anyone got experience with the 410he paired with a 210av? Edited January 13, 2013 by jackers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xgsjx Posted January 13, 2013 Share Posted January 13, 2013 [quote name='jackers' timestamp='1358074608' post='1932550'] Ok, so if I go for an 8 Ohm cab I would like it to be a 410 or 210 I reckon. If I get a 410, would adding a 210 from the same manufacturer as a second cab be a good idea? or should I just go with 2 of the same cab. [/quote] It's advisable to get 2 of the same cab, but use your ears. Adding a 2x10 to a 4x10 would mean that the 2x10 would be getting 150 watts to 2 10" drivers & the other 150w is spread across the other 4. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prime_BASS Posted January 13, 2013 Share Posted January 13, 2013 [quote name='xgsjx' timestamp='1358077220' post='1932600'] It's advisable to get 2 of the same cab, but use your ears. Adding a 2x10 to a 4x10 would mean that the 2x10 would be getting 150 watts to 2 10" drivers & the other 150w is spread across the other 4. [/quote] indeed, one won't be driven as much as the other, but aslong as the 2x10 is on top and you can hear it it should be fine, using your ears and bit of common sense a lot of weird bass rigs are fine. The 210AV's which I have for sale, will be as loud as any other 4x10 out there but will seem louder due to polar response and some science stuff. and they only weigh about 23kgs together, so a really nice alternative to having a hulking 4x10. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimR Posted January 13, 2013 Share Posted January 13, 2013 [quote name='Prime_BASS' timestamp='1358084753' post='1932740'] indeed, one won't be driven as much as the other, but aslong as the 2x10 is on top and you can hear it it should be fine, using your ears and bit of common sense a lot of weird bass rigs are fine. The 210AV's which I have for sale, will be as loud as any other 4x10 out there but will seem louder due to polar response and some science stuff. and they only weigh about 23kgs together, so a really nice alternative to having a hulking 4x10. [/quote] I don't have experience of that particular cab but the right modern 2x10" will more than keep up with a loud drummer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Starr Posted January 13, 2013 Share Posted January 13, 2013 First the actual answer to your question is that you will be approximately 2dB louder with the extra 100w, 1dB you will just hear and 2 you will notice but not by much, a bit like just tweeking the telly a little. Generally at any given price point I's go for a 2x10. They are likely to be in a smaller lighter box and two speakers are going to be be lighter than 4 in most cases. If the overall price is the same the two speakers for the price of four are going to be better quality, again most of the time. Knowing the techie stuff helps you home in on what to look at but the most important thing is to try them out and choose the one that sounds best. 200W through a high efficiency 2x10 should be louder than the drummer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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