this puts me off of fenders just a tad..

[simon1964]

[quote name='Roland Rock' timestamp='1357991849' post='1931438']


True! My 78P has a decent gap, but it still sounds and plays great, and has never moved. Good for storing plectrums too.
[/quote]

My 74P is the same. The gap is probably 3mm at the worst point, but the neck seems perfectly stable, and it plays great. The gap's too wide for storing plectrums though!

Edited January 13, 2013 by simon1964

[3below]

[quote name='chris_b' timestamp='1358073129' post='1932525']
+1

I'd check for dead spots, sustain, tone and the action before I'd worry about neck pockets.
[/quote]

I totally agree on this, check the C on G string in particular for the dead note. If all other notes are good and the bass 'sings' ask the shop to put new strings (not an unreasonable £10 on a £600+ instrument purchase. New strings will show if it is a fundamental unfixable issue or duff strings.

Do not worry too much about the neck pocket gap at the E string side. It is easily sorted out in about 2 mins. If there is a gap at the lower side after the top (E) side of neck has been aligned correctly then it might be time for second thoughts.

[rednose200]

Good points made by all but if quality control issues bug you ( and they should ) then I would look no further than Fender Japan if its Fender you are after. I have owned and played Heaven knows how many Jap Fenders and I have never had or seen any building problems on any of them ( 2007 onwards ) that is. The neck pockets have all been first class with absolutely no gaps at all.

All best.

[Doddy]

[quote name='ambient' timestamp='1358088190' post='1932822']
The Marcus Miller bass is a dream to play, and has 6 bolts attaching it to the body via a plate making for a really sturdy fit.

The frets are all perfectly seated, and the bridge is perfectly positioned, and allows for either through the body stringing or through the bridge on both basses.

I like the hipshot machines on the Marcus Miller bass too.

[/quote]

I'm guessing you've modified your Marcus bass,because as standard it has a 3 Bolt neck (not 6),Badass II bridge
(no through body stringing) and Fender '70's reverse machine heads (not Hipshot).

I've got a bunch of Fenders and there are some inconsistencies,but nothing that I'd kick off about. I've seen
some late '70's Fenders that have had really large gaps in the neck pocket,which kind of put me off a little,
otherwise I don't think a small gap is too much of a problem.

[White Cloud]

[quote name='dave_bass5' timestamp='1358081170' post='1932669']
Could be that the neck pockets are in spec according to Fender. I don't think I have seen official Fender neck pocket gap specs anywhere. Maybe they set a tolerance to cut the pocket slightly larger to allow the neck heal to expand without causing problems. I'd imagine that happening is a much bigger deal than a slight gap, which doesn't really make a difference to playability or tone.
Just my thoughts though.
[/quote]
Wrong. Any neck heel expansion (extremely minimal in only the most extreme of circumstances) would simply result in a very tight neck pocket...which is what any manufacturer aspires to on a bolt on neck design. I cannot believe that so many players here are arguing that a gap is no big deal - the reality is that it compromises, to some degree, the integrity of the whole design. Also another flaw in your argument is that by the very nature of seasoned timber, especially Maple, it will in fact SHRINK with age and not swell.

Could the Fenders be leaving the factory with tight neck joints and improperly seasoned necks...that shrink leaving a gap in the pocket????? I would argue that this is in fact where the problem lies.

With bolt ons Its all about stability. I have removed necks from many makes of bolt on neck basses and some are so tight that they could probably be plugged in and played without the screws holding the neck in place (Lakland for one).

Edited January 13, 2013 by White Cloud

[ambient]

[quote name='Doddy' timestamp='1358113681' post='1933452']
I'm guessing you've modified your Marcus bass,because as standard it has a 3 Bolt neck (not 6),Badass II bridge
(no through body stringing) and Fender '70's reverse machine heads (not Hipshot).

I've got a bunch of Fenders and there are some inconsistencies,but nothing that I'd kick off about. I've seen
some late '70's Fenders that have had really large gaps in the neck pocket,which kind of put me off a little,
otherwise I don't think a small gap is too much of a problem.
[/quote]

It's the 5 string USA version.

[dave_bass5]

[quote name='White Cloud' timestamp='1358113905' post='1933455']

Wrong. Any neck heel expansion (extremely minimal in only the most extreme of circumstances) would simply result in a very tight neck pocket...which is what any manufacturer aspires to on a bolt on neck design. I cannot believe that so many players here are arguing that a gap is no big deal - the reality is that it compromises, to some degree, the integrity of the whole design.

Its all about stability. I have removed necks from many makes of bolt on neck basses and some are so tight that they could probably be plugged in and played without the screws holding the neck in place (Lakland for one).
[/quote]
Well I'm happy to admit im wrong about the neck pocket and wood expansion theory (I was sitting on the toilet just musing really) but you yourself have just said that the gap is a compromise to some degree, so that doesn't mean it's a big deal, just that it might cause issues.
In may case I see no issue at all and I've not read of anyone having a huge problem just because the neck has a small gap.

[Doddy]

[quote name='ambient' timestamp='1358113981' post='1933456']
It's the 5 string USA version.
[/quote]

Ahhhh ok. I thought the Marcus V had a five bolt neck plate? At least,the one's I've seen
have.

[Mark Dixon]

All the reasons above are why I have not yet bought a Jazz basses for keeps over the past 20 years, all of the ones I have tried have had manufacturing faults..

- Neck pockets where you could park cars in the gap.
- Bridges not on the centre line.
- Gaps between the control plate and the pickguard.
- Pickguards off centre.
- Frets that are poorly seated and very poorly dressed.
- Stiff pots
- Banana necks

But one of the worst I saw recently was a $5k Master Built Jazz, so even getting a master built custom shop doesn't guarantee quality..!

That said, I have two Strats, both beautifully built - seems Fender can make guitars, but not basses..

[kerley]

Presuming they must go through some level of quality control then a small gap must meet the QC checks otherwise they would not leave the factory.

Tend to agree that in days of mass production and very accurate machining there is no excuse for this on a bass at any price but as price increases you expect to never see this. The problem is that people still seem to miss the point that USA basses are only more expensive because the labour rates are so much higher and NOT because the workmanship or processes are better. And the prices would get even higher if they had a tighter QC process that threw out 30% of their basses which may explain the QC standards they adopt. It is a financial decision, people still buy the basses with what some see as imperfections as Fender know full well that to 90% of people the imperfections are not noticed or don't matter.
If they had 30% wastage after QC the price may be £1200 instead of £900 and I doubt people would be saying "the price has gone up £300 but the QC is terrific so I am happy"

[The Dark Lord]

Lots of drivel on here from the Fender haters. I've had countless Fender basses and nearly as many guitars. Virtually all USA models - and never had a problem. I have the money to buy whatever I like ..... and I buy Fender.

The way some of these guys are spouting tosh on here, you'd think that every Fender hanging in every shop was sub-standard.

Not at all. There is a reason why the overwhelming majority of basses you will see on stage, or in a pub near you, have either Fender or Squier on the headstock.

It's because they are good and the bass players of this world like them.

Let the haters prattle on. Poor chaps. I'm sure their lives will get better some day.

[jcater]

[size=5][sub]My vote goes with The Dark Lord. Over the years i have had many different basses, but for me Fenders just do it. I'm sure there are some issues with any mass production bass but i have never owned a bad Precision or Jazz. They may not suit everyone but the majority still seem to find them to be the bass to play.[/sub][/size]

[size=5][sub]Recently I bought three basses from this site, all MIA, a jazz deluxe, precision deluxe and a standard precision. All of them are just fine. [/sub][/size]

[size=5][sub]How can anyone knock a bass that is really the industry standard?[/sub][/size]

[The Dark Lord]

[quote name='jcater' timestamp='1358160238' post='1933851']
[size=5][sub]My vote goes with The Dark Lord. Over the years i have had many different basses, but for me Fenders just do it. I'm sure there are some issues with any mass production bass but i have never owned a bad Precision or Jazz. They may not suit everyone but the majority still seem to find them to be the bass to play.[/sub][/size]

[size=5][sub]Recently I bought three basses from this site, all MIA, a jazz deluxe, precision deluxe and a standard precision. All of them are just fine. [/sub][/size]

[size=5][sub]How can anyone knock a bass that is really the industry standard?[/sub][/size]
[/quote]

Word.

[Lozz196]

I`m in agreement with The Dark Lord and Jcater. I`m yet to find a Fender Precision that I find bad to play, or have some of the QC issues that some seem to have experienced. Maybe I`m not as - and don`t really like this word but can`t think of another - picky, but to me if it plays well and sounds great, a gap on the neck pocket - which I`ve never experienced btw - wouldn`t concern me that much.

Fender works for me, and many many others. I do agree though that re the pic in the original post, you would you think they would use a better one.

[kerley]

Undoubtley some are more picky than others (I am am not picky either). My bass that is perfect to me could probably be given to a picky person who would point out all the things that are wrong with it while I will just happily play on in ignorance of the 'faults'

Saying that, it doesn't stop me having an expectation when spending £1000 or more...

[Black Coffee]

Could be that the only reason Fender are gettin a bit of a kickin on here lately is that they are held up as an industry standard and so many people have played so many of them.
Have the same number of bassists played the same number of Ibanez, Yamaha, Warick etc ??

I have just bought yet another Fender bass this week and am well impressed with the sound, finish and playability. It's a Geddy Lee signature; and the neck is incredible. Probably going to be a better player than my custom shop bass I had once I get to grips with it.

I like to play devils advocate amid debate; but amid it all it is fair to suggest that there are good and less good of everything, but when you pay good money for something; it isn't unreasonable to expect consistent quality for your cash.

Im sure the Queen is miffed at Bentley . . . . . . . where was that wagon made ?

[Conan]

[quote name='bassman344' timestamp='1358198298' post='1934807']
I have just bought yet another Fender bass this week and am well impressed with the sound, finish and playability. It's a Geddy Lee signature; and the neck is incredible. Probably going to be a better player than my custom shop bass I had once I get to grips with it.
[/quote]

You rarely hear of a bad Geddy. Even the shift from Japan to Mexico seems to have made no difference. But then again, why would it?

[jazzmanb]

my 1st decent bass was a 1975 jazz bought in 83 sunburst with pearl blocks on maple,the gap at the top was big enough to store my plec,played like a dream and was envied by everyone,only sold it due to a desire for a rosewood fingerboard in 2008

[One Drop]

[quote name='White Cloud' timestamp='1358113905' post='1933455']
Wrong. Any neck heel expansion (extremely minimal in only the most extreme of circumstances) would simply result in a very tight neck pocket...which is what any manufacturer aspires to on a bolt on neck design. I cannot believe that so many players here are arguing that a gap is no big deal - the reality is that it compromises, to some degree, the integrity of the whole design. Also another flaw in your argument is that by the very nature of seasoned timber, especially Maple, it will in fact SHRINK with age and not swell.

Could the Fenders be leaving the factory with tight neck joints and improperly seasoned necks...that shrink leaving a gap in the pocket????? I would argue that this is in fact where the problem lies.

With bolt ons Its all about stability. I have removed necks from many makes of bolt on neck basses and some are so tight that they could probably be plugged in and played without the screws holding the neck in place (Lakland for one).
[/quote]

That's why you see some of them with chipped paint around the neck pocket.

Having a pocket that is tight along the sides of the neck offers zero sonic advantage to a Fender design bass. It's a very recent aesthetic point that has become synonymous with 'quality' due to the rise of boutique builders who make a point of reducing the gap.

I know Fender never specced tight neck gaps until recently, it was not consodered desirable or important. I had a CS J that had a tight pocket and the nitro flaked the first time I removed it. Barely visible but a pain in the butt anyway.

For good coupling the screws probably matter more than the amount of wood that is touching, anyway.

I've been impressed with Fender QC the last few years, and the overall quality of their bass lines from Squier on up. They are a magnet for rabid bitching of every imaginable kind, though. Is it their continuing popularity that pisses folk off so badly?

[bassist_lewis]

Is it not a kind of "Tesco Syndrome"? Everyone slates them because they're the market leader yet a huge number of people regularly shop there.
On the other hand people gravitate to the familiar, which, due to them having such a long history with many big names attached to them (and even the bass guitar being called a "Fender bass" - as opposed to a double bass - for decades) gives them a massive advantage over say, Lakland, meaning that other manufacturers can easily be overlooked by the beginner, which continues the cycle of familiarity.

[3below]

The bottom line, you have free choice, it's your own money. Spend it as you will. Shame my 54 P bass (bedroom condition, with tags and bill of sale signed by Leo) has a 0.5mm neck pocket gap, guess I better sell it on the bay, since qc was poor. Any takers? hope I get lucky. (I do not have that particular bass btw)

Edited January 20, 2013 by 3below

[Hutton]

[quote name='The Dark Lord' timestamp='1358156346' post='1933775']
Lots of drivel on here from the Fender haters. I've had countless Fender basses and nearly as many guitars. Virtually all USA models - and never had a problem. I have the money to buy whatever I like ..... and I buy Fender.

The way some of these guys are spouting tosh on here, you'd think that every Fender hanging in every shop was sub-standard.

Not at all. There is a reason why the overwhelming majority of basses you will see on stage, or in a pub near you, have either Fender or Squier on the headstock.

It's because they are good and the bass players of this world like them.

Let the haters prattle on. Poor chaps. I'm sure their lives will get better some day.
[/quote]

Yes, yes, and yes! The Dark Lord speaketh well and true.

[White Cloud]

Well here endeth the debate.

Fender die hards (as usual) will not hear a word said against the company - and are willing to accept poor QC and flawed / loose joints. I am sure that Fender really appreciate your continued support. Your loyalty and willingness to accept a low standard of finish works to their advantage. It is nice for them to know that any bass with the F word on the headstock is above reproach!

The objective amongst us however feel Fender could step their game up and match companies like Lakland who consistently build Fender style basses to a higher standard of fit and finish for less cash.

You make your choice and pay your hard earned as you see fit.

[jaydentaku]

White cloud, you are right on the money.

[The Dark Lord]

[quote name='White Cloud' timestamp='1358707824' post='1943772']
Well here endeth the debate.

Fender die hards (as usual) will not hear a word said against the company - and are willing to accept poor QC and flawed / loose joints. I am sure that Fender really appreciate your continued support. Your loyalty and willingness to accept a low standard of finish works to their advantage. It is nice for them to know that any bass with the F word on the headstock is above reproach!

The objective amongst us however feel Fender could step their game up and match companies like Lakland who consistently build Fender style basses to a higher standard of fit and finish for less cash.

You make your choice and pay your hard earned as you see fit.
[/quote]

Biased nonsense.