Cab/Amp Advice Needed

[Lozz196]

Markbass cabs are great. I`ve got an NY121 cab, to go with my CMD121P combo, and previously had a Standard 104HR 410 (8ohm version). The sound is great, fits just in that right spot in the mix. With a Markbass Little Mark Tube putting out about 350 watts at 8ohms, in a punk band I never had the amp on more than 4 on volume. As a one-cab-does-it-all, their 410s are something else. And, if still available, there is a 212 (4ohm version) on here - Evil Undead is selling it. Again, would make a great one-cab-does-all.

[51m0n]

Markbass cabs are marmite - some people love them (Lozz does a lot) some people really don't.

I think they are OK, but last time I looked at the prices I thought they were a tad expensive for what they do myself....

[chris_b]

I've only seen good reviews about the Genz Focus range. They aren't expensive but they seem to be punching above their weight.

I believe Bassdirect are the Genz importers.Give Mark a call.

[neptunehealer]

[quote name='chris_b' timestamp='1358260499' post='1935779']
I've only seen good reviews about the Genz Focus range. They aren't expensive but they seem to be punching above their weight.

I believe Bassdirect are the Genz importers.Give Mark a call.
[/quote]

Yeah, i was suprised the amount of power the range has compared to the price. Almost seems to good to be true, but if you can save £300 and still get a quality cab then it's worth finding out more.

[winterfire666]

[quote name='51m0n' timestamp='1358260357' post='1935774']
Markbass cabs are marmite - some people love them (Lozz does a lot) some people really don't.
[/quote]
agreed, its not possible to get my sound with a markbass cab, cant stand them. although i know several people who love them
most cabs colour the sound in some way so you need to have a good idea of what you are after.
my advice is try one out before you part with your cash, whatever you go for.

[51m0n]

Its funny hearing people say they can run their rig at 3 on the dial or whatever and it fitst the mix though.

I think that is massively genre dependant. And rock and punk arent the most demanding genres for bass at all IME, As long as you have some nice grind going on - be it from some kind of overdriveyness or just bright strings hit hard with a pick to push the pups and pres nicely - then you can cut into a rock/punk mix without massive level, even with a pretty massive drummer.

However even in my band - which is a three piece with a very dynamic drummer, he can play at whisper level and still groove like mad (never ever met a drummer who could do that anywhere near as convincingly, he is a real eye openeer) right up to road work volumes) I always end up with my rig at real war volumes in rehearsal, and I stand right in fornt of it with it stood on another 410.

Its not a quiet cab, its not a quiet amp, its just the rest of the band want to hear more bass (always) which is kinda cool, but I would think maybe a little unusual? I mean its genuinely LOUD in there (ear plugs are [i]required[/i]), but it doesnt half feel good when you let rip and can feel it in your chest and your eyes wobble a bit

Still sounds fantastic on the rehearsal recordings we do so I'm not worrying, just enjoying it - I certainly wouldnt need to be louder on a gig though!

[JTUK]

My 550w amp is about 12-ish on the gain and 1 for a loud gig. The enhance and timbres makes a MASSIVE difference but use between 9 and 3 IF I have to have a little twiddle.

I play very quiet off the bass though but I don't care as long as the amp is loud enough...and it always is.

I don't need 750watts upto now, but I have the amp for it anyway. It isn't the volume..it is the TONE.
Some amps do strange things when pushing them and you should know and like the sound of it at the volume you want to use it.

[xgsjx]

[quote name='51m0n' timestamp='1358330416' post='1936953']
Its funny hearing people say they can run their rig at 3 on the dial or whatever and it fitst the mix though.

I think that is massively genre dependant. And rock and punk arent the most demanding genres for bass at all IME, As long as you have some nice grind going on - be it from some kind of overdriveyness or just bright strings hit hard with a pick to push the pups and pres nicely - then you can cut into a rock/punk mix without massive level, even with a pretty massive drummer.

However even in my band - which is a three piece with a very dynamic drummer, he can play at whisper level and still groove like mad (never ever met a drummer who could do that anywhere near as convincingly, he is a real eye openeer) right up to road work volumes) I always end up with my rig at real war volumes in rehearsal, and I stand right in fornt of it with it stood on another 410.

Its not a quiet cab, its not a quiet amp, its just the rest of the band want to hear more bass (always) which is kinda cool, but I would think maybe a little unusual? I mean its genuinely LOUD in there (ear plugs are [i]required[/i]), but it doesnt half feel good when you let rip and can feel it in your chest and your eyes wobble a bit

Still sounds fantastic on the rehearsal recordings we do so I'm not worrying, just enjoying it - I certainly wouldnt need to be louder on a gig though!
[/quote]

That's a very good point.

Most Rock, Metal & Punk bass have a very mid heavy sound with not so much in the low frequencies (it seems to sit better in the mix for some strange reason). It was the same with the bands of these genres that I used to play in.
The last band was a folk/americana band in which my bass had not so much mids & quite a lot of bass which is more demanding on the drivers, even at a lower volume.

[51m0n]

Yeah, and I'm well into punch, punch and more punch rather than big deep bass, and yet I'm still tearing down walls in the rehearsal room. Part of it is the sound is still so damned great off my rig at that volume that everyone enjoys it (its clean as a whistle unless I add fx, just loaded with yumminess if you know what I mean ).

Never had to be this loud in the covers band I was in, and I was up against a hamond as well there, and percussion, and a really loud (if he was allowed to) guitarist, and the loudest drummer I've ever worked with - it was blues/soul covers mainly....

Edited January 16, 2013 by 51m0n

[neptunehealer]

Another thing, i can never hear any slap i do in the mix, it always thins out and goes very quiet.
Does the blame lie with my 4x10 Laney cab?

[JTUK]

[quote name='neptunehealer' timestamp='1358344664' post='1937343']
Another thing, i can never hear any slap i do in the mix, it always thins out and goes very quiet.
Does the blame lie with my 4x10 Laney cab?
[/quote]

Quite possibly..
Some cabs speak well at certain frequencies and die at others. This is not a balanced cab IMO.
Berg, for example, are typically well balanced and so should modern cabs be in general as
slap and higher end for bass is not a NEW thing now.
I'd favour 'faster' 10"s than 15" typically, for this reason...and then you get into the realsm of horns...just a bleed can be enough.

Mine really bites and I don't have to play harder to get it to come through... so that might also be how the bass is set up.

I have had crap slap sounds in terms of volume, but that was also probably through a crap rig....rig being too kind a word.

[neptunehealer]

[quote name='JTUK' timestamp='1358346911' post='1937410']
Quite possibly..
Some cabs speak well at certain frequencies and die at others. This is not a balanced cab IMO.
Berg, for example, are typically well balanced and so should modern cabs be in general as
slap and higher end for bass is not a NEW thing now.
I'd favour 'faster' 10"s than 15" typically, for this reason...and then you get into the realsm of horns...just a bleed can be enough.

Mine really bites and I don't have to play harder to get it to come through... so that might also be how the bass is set up.

I have had crap slap sounds in terms of volume, but that was also probably through a crap rig....rig being too kind a word.
[/quote]

Cool i'm excited now.

My main concern now is will the 300w 2x10 cab still sound good with 275w going to it, or do i need more headroom to avoid damage and farting?

[51m0n]

[quote name='neptunehealer' timestamp='1358344664' post='1937343']
Another thing, i can never hear any slap i do in the mix, it always thins out and goes very quiet.
Does the blame lie with my 4x10 Laney cab?
[/quote]

That could be a whole bunch of things.

I used to suffer this with slapping as well a bit: I had a Laney rig years ago, a G300 and two 410s, it was heavy, but worked I guess, but it isnt the Laney cab thats doing this I think.

I've found that getting a reasonable tone and volume when going to and from fingerstyle and slap is a lot to do with your eq habits.

I find that with slapping the low end of the note is more in the low mid region of the frequency spectrum, whilst with fingerstyle its deeper. This means that if I eq the typical slap sound (all scooped mids and what have you) then in a mix when you go fingerstyle you get way to much low end. If you eq for a fingerstyle solo sound (scoop out the low mid mud) then when you go to slap it just looses all its punch.

I now eq in a tiny bit of low end, to extend the bottom off my bass/rig just a bit, and often boost a little low mid as well, the high mid gets a tiny cut if I want to sound big and smooth, and the treble is flat unless my strings are truly shot (which I dont let happen).

Anything like a smiley face eq is going to wreck your ability to hear bass in a mix, if you dont like the sound of your bass pretty flat then you need a differnt instrumetn, because if you are eqing heavily to get 'your sound' for one technique it tends (IME) to adversely affect the sound when you change to a different technique.

The only other thing I always have going on is some carefully set up transparent compression, which can also hel pto keep the bass nice and up front in the mix.

Moving up to a BF 212T or similar quality cab is going to really really help you to no tneed so much EQ IMO.

[discreet]

[quote name='xgsjx' timestamp='1358336124' post='1937095']
Most Rock, Metal & Punk bass have a very mid heavy sound with not so much in the low frequencies (it seems to sit better in the mix for some strange reason). It was the same with the bands of these genres that I used to play in.[/quote]

I think it's because a mid-forward bass sound doesn't compete with the kick drum, so allows more space. A good rock rhythm section that's really locked-in sounds punchy as hell because of this. IME, IMHO, YMMV, GLWTS etc, etc.

[JTUK]

[quote name='neptunehealer' timestamp='1358347664' post='1937442']
Cool i'm excited now.

My main concern now is will the 300w 2x10 cab still sound good with 275w going to it, or do i need more headroom to avoid damage and farting?
[/quote]

Difficult to say.... the cheaper cabs and units are cheap for a reason..so they may not handle high volume that well.
By the same token they might do fine...you will have to hear them.

If it were me, I'd want more capacity in a cab than that... but then are you putting 275 into a cab?
You'll only know yourself, when you put all your kit together and wind it up.

The reason that I would have half as much cab power again, than amp power, is that you may not always hear any break up...effects can mask this also.. Sure, that gig will be LOUD, but that happens as well when you lose control.

It is always a bit fraught running new kit loud and you get to hear the limits...then you have to stick to that.

For me, I don't see the point of trying to get away with running your kit close... if there is a chance of breaking.

Headroom... It is nice to have power in hand and not drive things too hard and the sound running away

[neptunehealer]

[quote name='JTUK' timestamp='1358367410' post='1938017']
Difficult to say.... the cheaper cabs and units are cheap for a reason..so they may not handle high volume that well.
By the same token they might do fine...you will have to hear them.

If it were me, I'd want more capacity in a cab than that... but then are you putting 275 into a cab?
You'll only know yourself, when you put all your kit together and wind it up.

The reason that I would have half as much cab power again, than amp power, is that you may not always hear any break up...effects can mask this also.. Sure, that gig will be LOUD, but that happens as well when you lose control.

It is always a bit fraught running new kit loud and you get to hear the limits...then you have to stick to that.

For me, I don't see the point of trying to get away with running your kit close... if there is a chance of breaking.

Headroom... It is nice to have power in hand and not drive things too hard and the sound running away
[/quote]

Just as i was settled on a decision you go and say this!!! I am terribly indecisive. It's only the 300w thing which is deterring me from it.

[chris_b]

Stop thinking...... drive to Bassdirect and try the cabs out. Mark is very helpful.

[JTUK]

I've lost track of what you are after.

Best bang for buck cabs are older Eden's IMO.. if you can handle the weight.

2x210 XLT's...??? Job done

Or that DB410 for £300 -ish..??

Eden for more modern, DB for more vintage vibe.

[Tankdave]

[quote name='chris_b' timestamp='1358369200' post='1938091']
Stop thinking...... drive to Bassdirect and try the cabs out. Mark is very helpful.
[/quote]

You'll leave a poor man, but you'll be a happy.

Edited January 17, 2013 by Tankdave

[51m0n]

[quote name='chris_b' timestamp='1358369200' post='1938091']
Stop thinking...... drive to Bassdirect and try the cabs out. Mark is very helpful.
[/quote]

+1

Take your wallet!

[Conan]

[quote name='chris_b' timestamp='1358369200' post='1938091']
Stop thinking...... drive to Bassdirect and try the cabs out. Mark is very helpful.
[/quote]

True - but he doesn't stock Barefaced if that is one of the options the OP would like to try.

[chris_b]

Talk to this guy. These cabs are worth the short drive to check them out.

[url="http://basschat.co.uk/topic/196202-aguilar-gs212-l295-and-gs210-l275-for-sale/page__fromsearch__1"]http://basschat.co.u...__fromsearch__1[/url]

[JTUK]

I agree with Chris, I have used GS112's and they can be huge down below and the 210's should make up the higher end.
I would be expecting a very full sounding rig with this config ..smaller than a 410/115 type set-up but you will lack for sound.

Deffo worth listening to, IMO..
Aguilar are making VG cabs atm and whilst the GS112 is scooped too much for me most of the time, the 210 should deal with that...

New strings and 2xGS112 are still a memorable rig for me....

[neptunehealer]

[quote name='chris_b' timestamp='1358426649' post='1938877']
Talk to this guy. These cabs are worth the short drive to check them out.

[url="http://basschat.co.uk/topic/196202-aguilar-gs212-l295-and-gs210-l275-for-sale/page__fromsearch__1"]http://basschat.co.u...__fromsearch__1[/url]
[/quote]

Good find Sir. So in your opinion will these two cabs be a better and more powerful option than the Genz Benz cabs i am considering?

[chris_b]

Only you can say whether one cab is better than the other for the music you play and the band you are in.

In reality they are all way better than what you are using at the moment.

For what I play I would prefer the sound of the Aguilar cabs. But the Genz cabs are very good too, so you'll have to hear them.