HMV- Not a real shocker, but a good read.

[ead]

I think the way music is consumed is very different now and a contributory factor. When I was getting into music in 60s/70s it was all about the album (and the single for some genres obviously). But I remember saving up for the next LP on my list and then sitting with my mates and listening to it A side and B side, in order, often in relative silence too - several times over.

My kids consume music more by song than by CD, although my lad does like owning the CD too so something has rubbed off.

[tonybassplayer]

Yes if my fifteen year old daughter is anything to go by her Xmas list was very music orientated and she have me a list of about forty "songs" from a total of about eight artists. I wasn't going to download them as singles so researched them and bought her about six albums that best represented her wish list and explained its better to have the album then you can have it on you'd iPod and phone and still play the cd. When I was young playing the album in sequence was the way but sadly not now. When I think how many hidden gems I would have missed had I just plucked my initial favourites from an album had that facility been available back then.

[flyfisher]

[quote name='kerley' timestamp='1358256266' post='1935641']
He is the person who is ultimately accountable. He signs off on major strategy, he leads etc,. If the non-exec directors are not putting in place the best strategies it is up to him to know that and change them (the people or the strategies)

If it is anybodies fault it is his.
[/quote]

Yes, he is accountable, but it isn't necessarily his fault. How on earth can one person be expected to [u]know[/u] everything? And if they did, then they wouldn't need a team of advisers around them in the first place would they?

Fault and responsibility are entirely different things.

[BigRedX]

[url=http://croydonmunicipal.blogspot.co.uk/2013/01/how-hmv-can-save-itself.html]Interesting article written by Bob Stanley a year ago[/url].

And when you're finished scroll down to read his comments about his meeting with HMV management after it was original published.

[kerley]

If he is accountable then it is his fault, that is what accountability is.

He may not know what every one of his employees is up to on a day to day basis but he should know the companies strategy, how it is tracking, where the money is being spent, sorting out higher priority issues etc,.

He must have known the company was on the slide for years and the actions he took to address were not the correct ones, again totally his fault. Just as if he had turned the company around to be the most successful company in world would also be his doing.

[gelfin]

The Oldest Record Shop in the World.

http://www.spillersrecords.co.uk/

This is where I have done most of my music buying. Still a small family run business with the emphasis on customer service.
Many years ago when Nick was running it I would go in on a Monday morning pick up a box of LP's that Nick
had selected for me. I would play them throughout the week and return the ones I didn't like next Monday
when I picked up the next box. Nick's selections were so good that I only ever returned two albums.

[spinynorman]

There's an updated version of the Phil Beeching article on the BBC Website. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-21028803

I tend to agree with Robert Peston that it's better to let companies like HMV fail. Hard as it is for the staff, the sooner HMV goes, the sooner something with a viable business model can replace them. It's entirely possible that music is one of the things you can't sell through a high street chain anymore. Or maybe some currently small independent will now start to get the volume they need to expand.

However, I've also read that the big labels don't like the idea of HMV failing and leaving them with iTunes and Amazon. They might prop HMV up, in which case it could limp on for another couple of years.

[BigRedX]

[url=http://basschat.co.uk/topic/196694-hmv/page__view__findpost__p__1936404]As I said in my post in the other HMV thread[/url] the range of music these days is simply too broad for any physical shop to compete any more.

Plus all those bands that were previously putting singles out on small independent labels simply go for a download release only nowadays.
Back in the 90s when my previous serious band put out our single, I spent hours on the phone organising a distribution deal for it so that we could actually get our music out to more than just those who bought a copy at a gig. With the Terrortones, this was never even discussed. We sell CDs at gigs and direct from our website to anywhere in the world. We looked at all the digital distributors and went with the one that seemed to offer us the best VFM deal, paid our $50 and uploaded out audio files. Less than 5 days later the tracks were on sale as downloads all over the world. No further action on our part required other than to publicise this and collect the money as it come in. Certainly no more hassling shops and distributors to get our SoR copies back when they hadn't old.

How can a traditional style record store compete with that?

[Big_Stu]

[quote name='spinynorman' timestamp='1358442243' post='1939293']However, I've also read that the big labels don't like the idea of HMV failing and leaving them with iTunes and Amazon. They might prop HMV up, in which case it could limp on for another couple of years.[/quote]

The big labels fully expect DVDs to be in the same position in 4 years time as CDs are now, with CDs by then all but gone.

[chrismuzz]

[quote name='Big_Stu' timestamp='1358456321' post='1939680']
The big labels fully expect DVDs to be in the same position in 4 years time as CDs are now, with CDs by then all but gone.
[/quote]

I hope not! I like having physical copies of my music and films. I value it so much more when I can hold it in my hand, and I feel like I've got more to show for my money... Not to mention a backup if my computer of precious ipod dies!

[Monckyman]

I don't care about HMV going down.
I'm sorry for the workers and that's about it.
It was just a shop.
Nobody in that company cared a toss for music, it was just a product, and what's more, a product they didn't understand.
It could have sold shoes or bacon as far as they gave a f***.
If online shopping hadn't forced prices down, they would still have been charging £20 a cd like they we're in the 90s despite artists protests.
Amazon rules now.

[iconic]

Amazing to think I paid 15 quid in 1986 for The The Soul Mining on vinyl!

I struggle to see where the big money is made in music nowadays?

[Big_Stu]

[quote name='iconic' timestamp='1358460983' post='1939836']I struggle to see where the big money is made in music nowadays?[/quote]

Taking advantage of gullible fools mostly

[BigRedX]

[quote name='chrismuzz' timestamp='1358457641' post='1939716']
I hope not! I like having physical copies of my music and films. I value it so much more when I can hold it in my hand, and I feel like I've got more to show for my money... Not to mention a backup if my computer of precious ipod dies!
[/quote]

Really? I can't understand anyone over 10 needing to see a film more than once every 5 years. IMO most films made in the last 20 or so years are mostly eye candy with substance to the script or characters. Plus once I know what happens I find little attraction in ever seeing it again.

[chrismuzz]

[quote name='BigRedX' timestamp='1358465275' post='1939943']
Really? I can't understand anyone over 10 needing to see a film more than once every 5 years. IMO most films made in the last 20 or so years are mostly eye candy with substance to the script or characters. Plus once I know what happens I find little attraction in ever seeing it again.
[/quote]

My most watched DVDs are music ones to be fair... But there are some films that actually get better the more you watch them, things you don't notice the first time around. Others are just a good laugh

[Big_Stu]

[quote name='chrismuzz' timestamp='1358465453' post='1939949']
My most watched DVDs are music ones to be fair... But there are some films that actually get better the more you watch them, things you don't notice the first time around.[/quote]

Some are so good at that, that you end using the phrases youself.............erm ...... allegedly........

[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TM-G0bkl8MQ[/media]

[uncle psychosis]

[quote name='BigRedX' timestamp='1358465275' post='1939943']


Really? I can't understand anyone over 10 needing to see a film more than once every 5 years. IMO most films made in the last 20 or so years are mostly eye candy with substance to the script or characters. Plus once I know what happens I find little attraction in ever seeing it again.
[/quote]

I disagree.

This is the film equivalent of the old geezers down the pub saying "all modern music is auto tuned sh*t" I'm afraid ;-)

[chrismuzz]

[quote name='Big_Stu' timestamp='1358466769' post='1939971']
Some are so good at that, that you end using the phrases youself.............erm ...... allegedly........
[/quote]

I do this all the time, mostly falls flat when no bugger knows what I'm referring to

[ash]

I have mixed views on HMV; sad that people have lost their jobs and for those who bought vouchers as gifts in these times of austerity. Choice was woeful in my local branch much to the disgust of many of those who both shopped and worked there. The fact that HMV was calling itself a 'specialist retailer' but ended up selling mobile phones, games and iPads showed how it had lost its way. The notion it has become a dinosaur has been argued elsewhere. It's also worth acknowledging the part it played in closing down many smaller retailers by its huge purchasing power in not so distant times. I hope it allows the small independent shops to get back a bit of that lost business.

[peteb]

[color=#222222][quote name='urb' timestamp='1358244953' post='1935295']
I worked in the (once) large HMV in Oxford for two years and was the buyer for the 'specialities' section which had a huge jazz range alongside country, folk, world, soundtracks and other stuff - but then I had a chance to work for a music dotcom in 1999 and went for an interview and got the job. I told one of the (arrogant) regional manager's who would swan around the shop once a month (swaggering about like he was a frigging rock star) that I'd got a job on a music website and his immediate response, with a sneering laugh was; "what the internet? that's rubbish..."

Well this seems to tallying exactly with the views of the MD as per the above article:

[i]"The three greatest threats to HMV are, online retailers, downloadable music and supermarkets discounting loss leader product". [/i]

[i]Suddenly I realised the MD had stopped the meeting and was visibly angry:[/i]

[i][i]"I have never heard such rubbish", he said, "I accept that supermarkets are a thorn in our side but not for the serious music, games or film buyer and as for the other two, I don't ever see them being a real threat, downloadable music is just a fad and people will always want the atmosphere and experience of a music store rather than online shopping."[/i][/i]

It is sad but their business model and their arrogance (like all old school record labels who had it good for so long) they got complacent and then failed to act quick enough when the tide turned against them - the music industry and music fans have changed forever now and while I love going to a good record shop but increasingly artists/bands are getting really good at selling merchandise directly to fans at gigs and that really is the way it's going. If you want to actually buy music (which I still do quite a lot actually) then there's no excuse - it's all there at your finger tips.
[/quote][/color]

[color=#222222]Yea, absolutely right![/color]

[color=#222222]When I was a teenager I used to hang out with my mates at HMV in Bradford, pouring over the new rock imports to see what was new and buying what we could afford. A few years later (in the early eighties) I worked there briefly and couldn’t believe how much it had changed and how little the regional managers knew or cared about music. The wide choice of music available had all but gone and it its place was just a massive storeroom full of hundreds of Madonna & Dire Straits albums. Even at the height of their success, the writing was on the wall as real music enthusiasts couldn’t find what they wanted in the store and had to look elsewhere to track down what they wanted![/color]

[color=#222222]It was a breath of fresh air when Amazon appeared – suddenly dozens of albums that I had been searching high and low for were available for £7. Before that HMV either didn’t stock them or would make out they were doing me a favour to order them in (with a wait of at least a couple of weeks) for up to £25 or so![/color]

[color=#222222]The last straw was for me was when they started worrying that people would be put off buying Tupac or Foo Fighters albums if they were served by kids with tattoos! When I went for a job there they seemed to be worried that I that my image wasn’t cool enough to work there (early 20s, long hair & a leather jacket) – I pretty much had to point out at the interview that plenty of kids went in the shop to buy AC/DC, Foreigner or Def Leppard albums!![/color]

Edited January 18, 2013 by peteb

[BigRedX]

[quote name='uncle psychosis' timestamp='1358466953' post='1939977']
I disagree.

This is the film equivalent of the old geezers down the pub saying "all modern music is auto tuned sh*t" I'm afraid ;-)
[/quote]

And I disagree with that ;-)

When I watch I film I want to see something new and be surprised by the way the plot develops.

Surely watching something you've seen before over is the equivalent of "old geezers down the pub saying "all modern music is auto tuned sh*t""?

[BigRedX]

[quote name='ash' timestamp='1358468208' post='1939996']
It's also worth acknowledging the part it played in closing down many smaller retailers by its huge purchasing power in not so distant times.
[/quote]

Did it really? My perception of HMV was that it catered to a completely different market to the independents.

[uncle psychosis]

[quote name='BigRedX' timestamp='1358504405' post='1940291']
And I disagree with that ;-)

When I watch I film I want to see something new and be surprised by the way the plot develops.

Surely watching something you've seen before over is the equivalent of "old geezers down the pub saying "all modern music is auto tuned sh*t""?
[/quote]

I'm definitely a music-nerd and not really a film-nerd, but watching a film twice is not much different from listening to an album twice. Each time you might notice something new, or take something slightly different from it, or just take pleasure from something awesome. Not all films stand up to repeat viewings, but many do.

[jackers]

[quote name='uncle psychosis' timestamp='1358505031' post='1940309']
I'm definitely a music-nerd and not really a film-nerd, but watching a film twice is not much different from listening to an album twice. Each time you might notice something new, or take something slightly different from it, or just take pleasure from something awesome. Not all films stand up to repeat viewings, but many do.
[/quote]

I agree to a point, but I would say that it is much easier to listen to an album over and over than it is to watch a film over and over. To me, watching a film is more of a one off experience, with things I've seen going into a 'films I've seen' category, whereas when I listen to an album it goes onto my iPod and into the 'albums I like' category.

Ofcourse there are exceptions; most pixar films, for example

[MiltyG565]

[quote name='uncle psychosis' timestamp='1358505031' post='1940309']
I'm definitely a music-nerd and not really a film-nerd, but watching a film twice is not much different from listening to an album twice. Each time you might notice something new, or take something slightly different from it, or just take pleasure from something awesome. Not all films stand up to repeat viewings, but many do.
[/quote]

Not shutter Island, i can tell you that much. The only recent film i have watched in years, and you only get one good shot at it.

I don't watch films anymore. People build them up to a level where they can never really live up to my expectations of it. People always said Step Brothers was an amazing film, i thought it was alright. Funny, but not anywhere near a great film.