NURZE Posted January 24, 2013 Share Posted January 24, 2013 (edited) So I've got this issue with the neck of my musciman stingyray: I own 2 stingrays a white and black 3band eq with maple neck. I love them to death. But the black one is kind of disappointing me since last year... I've been playing it for a few years now and never had any major problems with it. Always felt like the neck wasn't mounted correctly though. But it played fine. It's always been tuned to B and held perfectly together. One thing ALWAYS bothered me though, was that the D string (in my case) would slip of the fretboard when I was playing. I never really paid attention to it till a few months ago... When I first bought it I was pretty inexperienced. I just knew since i was a kid that one day I'd own a stingray bass. SInce they're my favorites... And I wanted a black one so i jumped on it when I came across one. After a while I started to notice that the neck was slowly shifting towards the right (towards left, in the pic since it's upside down). And really seems as if the bridge is crooked. I though I was dreaming, but it was almost immediately pointed out by a fellow bassist at the MUSICMAN MEETING. The meeting took place in Holland last november the 3rd. Amongst the attendees there also was someone from VOERMAN.NL, an impoter that imports MUSICMAN INSTRUMENTS. I showed my bass to him and it was admitted that there was an issue with the bass. I was being asked all kind of questions. - How do you move the bass? In a offical MM case - Did you drop it? NEVER - Did you travel abroad with it? no - Where do you store it? Just in my house And when I get new strings I always get it set-up by a good luthier in Tongeren (BELGIUM, he works for famous bands and I assume that he knows what he's doing). The Luthier pointed out the neck trouble pretty soon, but it wasn't bothering me then. But it's getting worse and worse and worse. The guy from Voerman confirmed that there were issues with the bass and tried to solve it right there and then. He said it could be a result of how the neck was sawn. Well seriously? I don't know anything about it. But that just shouldn't happen. He loosened the neck, adjusted the trussrod... and it was a little bit better. But still... the bend/shift to the right was there... and never ever went away. The importer confirmed it. The people at the meeting that saw it and confirmed it. And yesterday I went to the local guitar stor" and the employees were like. "I haven't seen this before... that's pretty bad." I added a picture that someone took at the meeting and it's obvious that something wrong there... it's NOT the camera angle. Look at the bridge! I'm gonna take more pictures when I get the 'ray back. When I posted this story on the MM forums the topic was immediately locked as well. and i got a mail from some mod. saying: CONTACT CS. Very friendly... seriously this shouldn't happen to a bass from 1800 euro's ? Should it? musicman meeting: The stingray: Edited January 24, 2013 by NURZE Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jackers Posted January 24, 2013 Share Posted January 24, 2013 wow, that sucks man I hope you get it sorted soon. R.E. the MM forums, they are well known for locking and deleting any threads that highlight a problem with any MM instrument, as well as being very aggressive in messages towards anyone who creates these threads. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
discreet Posted January 24, 2013 Share Posted January 24, 2013 [quote name='jackers' timestamp='1359033374' post='1948713'] ...the MM forums, they are well known for locking and deleting any threads that highlight a problem with any MM instrument, as well as being very aggressive in messages towards anyone who creates these threads. [/quote] Not exactly good PR, is it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NURZE Posted January 24, 2013 Author Share Posted January 24, 2013 No, not really Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lettsguitars Posted January 24, 2013 Share Posted January 24, 2013 (edited) Wood is very good at holding tension and would not move continually due to this tension. It settles into a position and that's your lot. The only thing that will bend wood is high temperature. The way the wood is sawn also does not cause continual movement like this. When you cut a piece of wood it does move but is usually a single movement and becomes a permanent and constant bow or cup, or both. The main reason for continual movement such as this, is the woods moisture content. Wood that is prepared in hot humid countries that is then shipped and stored in temperate to cold climates will gradually lose it's moisture and move in constant relation to the the moisture content. Also when you buy guitars that are made in factories they contain wood that is kiln dried by the ton and you will always get a few problem pieces or even a whole batch that is dried badly (necks especially). Kiln drying is actually not the ideal method to season musical instrument timber for various reasons which are google-able. If you bought this from new you should definately be entitled to a new bass as the materials used would seem unsuitable. Please dont quote me when consulting mm as I'm sure they have many evil lawyers at work around the globe. They could argue that you have stored your guitar in unsuitable conditions ie next to a radiator, in a sauna etc. Edited January 24, 2013 by lettsguitars Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigthumb Posted January 24, 2013 Share Posted January 24, 2013 I had one with a similar problem, the G string being VERY close to the edge of the fingerboard thus constantly slipping off! Right pain in the rear end. Hope you get it sorted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lettsguitars Posted January 24, 2013 Share Posted January 24, 2013 [quote name='bigthumb' timestamp='1359035231' post='1948756'] I had one with a similar problem, the G string being VERY close to the edge of the fingerboard thus constantly slipping off! Right pain in the rear end. Hope you get it sorted. [/quote]A simple case of the bridge being in the wrong place again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigthumb Posted January 24, 2013 Share Posted January 24, 2013 [quote name='lettsguitars' timestamp='1359035351' post='1948759'] A simple case of the bridge being in the wrong place again. [/quote] Indeed! [IMG]http://i201.photobucket.com/albums/aa231/bigthumb73/Stingray010.jpg[/IMG] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jackers Posted January 24, 2013 Share Posted January 24, 2013 looking at that made me wince Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lettsguitars Posted January 24, 2013 Share Posted January 24, 2013 [quote name='bigthumb' timestamp='1359035643' post='1948762'] Indeed! [/quote] How do they do that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NURZE Posted January 24, 2013 Author Share Posted January 24, 2013 (edited) That's almost the same lik emy bass has... That should not be tolerated at quality control, should it? Edited January 24, 2013 by NURZE Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charic Posted January 24, 2013 Share Posted January 24, 2013 It's their version of pin the tail on the donkey Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dingus Posted January 24, 2013 Share Posted January 24, 2013 The G string , or indeed E or low B string , slipping of the edge of the fingerboard is not necessarilly due to bridge or neck misalignment but can also be caused by how the nut is cut . Music Man five string basses are particulaly prone to this problem . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NURZE Posted January 24, 2013 Author Share Posted January 24, 2013 I already emailed CS at Musicman. And I provided the picture as well. I'm very curious about what they'll say... I'll keep you guys posted, and thanks for the support. appreciate it, Kevin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NURZE Posted January 24, 2013 Author Share Posted January 24, 2013 [quote name='Dingus' timestamp='1359037014' post='1948794'] The G string , or indeed E or low B string , slipping of the edge of the fingerboard is not necessarilly due to bridge or neck misalignment but can also be caused by how the nut is cut . Music Man five string basses are particulaly prone to this problem . [/quote] In some cases that will be the main reason. But in my case it's the entire neck that's crooked and the bridge seems to be crooked as well... I'll post better pics when I get it back... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lettsguitars Posted January 24, 2013 Share Posted January 24, 2013 [quote name='NURZE' timestamp='1359037130' post='1948799'] In some cases that will be the main reason. But in my case it's the entire neck that's crooked and the bridge seems to be crooked as well... I'll post better pics when I get it back... [/quote]You need to tell them the neck has warped over time. It is a definate bow (sideways bow). Necks obviously bow upwards when under tension hence the need for truss rods. A neck should never ever EVER bow to the side like. It is wholly unacceptable and should be replaced! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charic Posted January 24, 2013 Share Posted January 24, 2013 I'm going to err on the side of caution and ask (due to recent events) that we be careful to stick to facts. I know everyone is trying to help but we (as a forum) have to be careful not to get chased down for defamation. That being said, NURZE please let us know how you get on! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drTStingray Posted January 24, 2013 Share Posted January 24, 2013 (edited) [quote name='Dingus' timestamp='1359037014' post='1948794'] The G string , or indeed E or low B string , slipping of the edge of the fingerboard is not necessarilly due to bridge or neck misalignment but can also be caused by how the nut is cut . Music Man five string basses are particulaly prone to this problem . [/quote] Presumably the setting of the saddles can influence this also - NURZE, the saddles on the E string side of your bass's bridge look to be significantly higher than the G string side. Musicman bridges are usually bullet proof - but as Dingus has said the outer strings on the 5 string bass necks are quite close to the edge of the neck - they are not on the 4 string (or shouldn't be). I've never seen a Musicman bass with strings as misaligned as those in the pictures. The bridges do not look out of line on them, and I don't see how it would be possible for them to be misaligned from the factory. However misaligned bridges is an issue which has been raised on forums by Fender customers from time to time - Musicman bridges have two extra locating bolts (at the ends of the saddles) which fix some way into the body, in addition to the screw holes, so the chance of misalignment is further reduced compared with the Fender design. I hope you get it sorted out satisfactorily - if it's a new bass then I'm sure it will be - Musicman customer services have an excellent reputation. Bigthumb - how old is that bass? Edited January 24, 2013 by drTStingray Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dingus Posted January 24, 2013 Share Posted January 24, 2013 I too would be surprised if the bridge is off centre on a recent EBMM bass . Everything is done on state of the art CNC machines precisely to avoid this kind of human error . I have never seen or heard of a misaligned bridge on an EBMM bass . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lettsguitars Posted January 24, 2013 Share Posted January 24, 2013 It isn't the bridge! You can see in the pic what the op is saying. If you watch the line he has drawn along the neck you see that the neck clearly bows in the middle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stingrayPete1977 Posted January 24, 2013 Share Posted January 24, 2013 (edited) The OPs bass I presume has a bent neck but the pre EB is just because of the misplaced bridge, remeber that it is 30+ years old and not an EBMM product in any way however similar they look. I think it should get a new neck even if its a few years old, I have never seen it before and its not fit for purpose is it so the 12 month warranty is neither here nor there these days, best of luck with it Edited January 24, 2013 by stingrayPete1977 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lettsguitars Posted January 24, 2013 Share Posted January 24, 2013 [quote name='stingrayPete1977' timestamp='1359050390' post='1949106'] The OPs bass I presume has a bent neck but the pre EB is just because of the misplaced bridge, remeber that it is 30+ years old and not an EBMM product in any way however similar they look. I think it should get a new neck even if its a few years old, I have never seen it before and its not fit for purpose is it so the 12 month warranty is neither here nor there these days, best of luck with it [/quote]Correct. Although I dont see how the age of an instrument has any impact on build quality. A human is just as competent at aligning a bridge as any computer. I dont think anyone is having a go at EB, in fact I'm pretty sure this thread is mostly made up of mm fans. Bridges are aligned badly on a great deal of commercial instruments old and new. You see it all the time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigthumb Posted January 24, 2013 Share Posted January 24, 2013 My current Stingray (early 90s I think) is the 7th I've owned and without issue as were the rest, apart from the '79 pictured. On the whole the quality has been superb. I really hope the OP gets something sorted. It would be pretty bad form (and publicity) for EB to ignore. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lettsguitars Posted January 24, 2013 Share Posted January 24, 2013 Indeed this is not something you see every day. Should be sorted no questions asked. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stingrayPete1977 Posted January 24, 2013 Share Posted January 24, 2013 [quote name='lettsguitars' timestamp='1359050779' post='1949115'] Correct. Although I dont see how the age of an instrument has any impact on build quality. A human is just as competent at aligning a bridge as any computer. I dont think anyone is having a go at EB, in fact I'm pretty sure this thread is mostly made up of mm fans. Bridges are aligned badly on a great deal of commercial instruments old and new. You see it all the time. [/quote] The age is only a factor here because the pre EB basses are totally different beasts, from the first EBMM Ray they had body contours etc proving that all the previous body cutting gear was done away with so the methods used in '79 were different to 2009. I agree once production went to cnc the age of the basses for bridge aligment is neither here nor there though. I dont think a human is as good anyway not when done at speed to make massive amounts of cash in a factory, I would rather let the laser guided machine drill the two anchor points and it be cock on Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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