Not sure if this'll come across as I want it to

[Jimryan]

Morning all,

During my evening practices, I've noticed something when it comes to playing/learning fast, fiddley bits.

Usually, I've just gone at things full steam ahead and kept trying until I've got it. Countless times I've read people's advise of, slow the track down, learn it slow and gradually speed up.

I've kinda stumbled across one that kinda works for me, but sounds weird, but bear with me...RAR!!! Hehe BEAR with me :-p

I've found I can play faster, if I slow down. Usually I've tried fast runs at speed, or executing the note and shifting immediately in preparation. Recently I've learned that if I "hang around" and shift at the very, very last instance, a can play much quicker.

It sounds weird reading it back, but I know what I mean.

[fumps]

Yeh I always go for accuracy first, when I joined my first band it was a thrash band & I had only owned my bass a month before i joined so I used to practice everything in slow motion until i could play it without even thinking about it

[Jimryan]

I don't mean literally slow down (as in the track). The track stays normal speed, I play normal speed, but slow down as in my movement and shift times.

[seashell]

I think I sort of know what you mean. Do you mean kind of 'relax into it' rather than flap around with flailing fingers (as I am prone to do!).

I really have a problem with speed, esp. with my right hand. I've tried the starting slow and speeding up thing, with a metronome and all that, but I always seem to hit a wall that I just can't get past.

[uncle psychosis]

I've always found the trick to learning fast sections is to learn them "backwards". Not literally backwards, let me try and explain:

Rather than learning the first few notes of the fast bit, then trying to learn the next bit, start at the end of the phrase and learn the last few notes. Once you've got them down, learn another few notes just before the end. Then, add a few more notes until eventually you're playing through the whole phrase.

The reason this works is because you go [b]from[/b] a tricky/new bit to a bit you can already play---to my mind this is fundamentally easier than going from a bit you can play [b]to[/b] a new/tricky bit.

Give it a try

[discreet]

I think I know what you mean... like so many things in life, trying [i]too [/i]hard can be counter-productive.

[discreet]

[quote name='seashell' timestamp='1359456413' post='1954911']
I really have a problem with speed, esp. with my right hand. I've tried the starting slow and speeding up thing, with a metronome and all that, but I always seem to hit a wall that I just can't get past.
[/quote]

You have to pace yourself!

[Dad3353]

[quote name='uncle psychosis' timestamp='1359456916' post='1954921']
I've always found the trick to learning fast sections is to learn them "backwards". Not literally backwards, let me try and explain:

Rather than learning the first few notes of the fast bit, then trying to learn the next bit, start at the end of the phrase and learn the last few notes. Once you've got them down, learn another few notes just before the end. Then, add a few more notes until eventually you're playing through the whole phrase.

The reason this works is because you go [b]from[/b] a tricky/new bit to a bit you can already play---to my mind this is fundamentally easier than going from a bit you can play [b]to[/b] a new/tricky bit.

Give it a try
[/quote]

+1; excellent trick for learning longer stuff, too (or even other subjects such as lines for a play...). One is working more and more into one's 'comfort zone' when learning this way.

[RAY AGAINST THE MACHINE]

I find that sometimes , if I just noodle around on the Bass unplugged, just for a few minutes my technique improves. Weird

[KevB]

Yes the 'backwards' thing has worked for me in the past. I still can't play particularly quick without fudging notes together though, still marvel at players who can articulate all the notes whilst rattling through stuff. As part of a long set list I'm trying to learn at the moment I was wrestling with the Jam's 'Going Underground' last night and haven't mastered it yet but it will probably have to do for the time being. There was a very helpful tutorial on Youtube but I noticed at no point did the demonstrator play it at full speed and all the way through from start to finish. However there are other guys doing it on youtube over the original recording that seem to have it cracked so I guess I'll get there eventually.

[icastle]

[quote name='seashell' timestamp='1359456413' post='1954911']
I really have a problem with speed, esp. with my right hand. I've tried the starting slow and speeding up thing, with a metronome and all that, but I always seem to hit a wall that I just can't get past.
[/quote]

That's where the crossover between technique and musicality comes in.

I can play at a fair old rate of knots (or should that be knotes?) but above a certain level I find the whole thing becomes a load of mushy nonsense that doesn't do justice to the tune.

If I hit that point then all I do is fill in with a pattern of ghost notes or go back to the drawing board with a different time signature.

[dmccombe7]

Can't fathom out the backwards thing and how it will make a differance from learning it from the start but I'm gonna give it a try to see how i get on.
Hope it works cause i like learning new things on bass no matter how strange they first appear.

Mmmm

thanks
Dave

[4 Strings]

Maybe we should have Basschat Projects.

Like, let's all learn Sir Duke together, discuss the hard bits and give tips, try the slowing down (at the same tempo!) thing, learning the end first etc.

(I need to learn Sir Duke and so will try both these techniques.)

Just to add the the slowing tempo idea I have done this before using Audacity, allows you to change tempo without changing key (and vice versa) to play along at will.

Edited January 29, 2013 by 4 Strings

[Lowender]

If you can play something slow, you'll eventually be able to play it fast.

[steve-bbb]

ithink i sort of know what you mean and shell says it too about relaxing into it

if you watch somebody like vai playing lead he often looks very relaxed and sort of almost like his fingers arent going to make the note on time but they always do

[Jimryan]

[quote name='4 Strings' timestamp='1359488599' post='1955599']
Maybe we should have Basschat Projects.

Like, let's all learn Sir Duke together, discuss the hard bits and give tips, try the slowing down (at the same tempo!) thing, learning the end first etc.
[/quote]

I've just learned that for me band and its whilst practicing it (mainly the little fills in the later chorus') that I realised it. By taking a more relaxed and "slower" approach, that it comes through clearest and easiest.

[Jimryan]

[quote name='steve-bbb' timestamp='1359489033' post='1955615']
ithink i sort of know what you mean and shell says it too about relaxing into it

if you watch somebody like vai playing lead he often looks very relaxed and sort of almost like his fingers arent going to make the note on time but they always do
[/quote]

+1

Kind of it :-)

[4 Strings]

[quote name='Jimryan' timestamp='1359489035' post='1955616']
I've just learned that for me band and its whilst practicing it (mainly the little fills in the later chorus') that I realised it. By taking a more relaxed and "slower" approach, that it comes through clearest and easiest.
[/quote]

I wondered if it was! I also find it helps to be familiar with it to start with, sounds a bit daft, but if you know well where it's going to go it helps. I've been paying this over and over on car journeys.

Ok, I'll get to it and we can post videos of our success (or otherwise)!

[3below]

Getting into 'the zone' helps playing. When you get in 'the zone' you can just hit the right notes, all the fills, and seem to have all the time in the world to do it. Wish it happened more in my world.