how long should I wait before I start asking for moderator help?

[alyctes]

[quote name='MiltyG565' timestamp='1359765689' post='1960213']
C'mon guys, this is just getting silly. Does the OP have his stuff yet?
[/quote]

Nope, but I'm enjoying the OT discussion

Edited February 2, 2013 by alyctes

[molan]

[quote name='LukeFRC' timestamp='1359766526' post='1960226']
too right- I've been reading this and wondering what has happened to this place in the last few years! Quite a change I think - I always thought there used to be a unwritten rule that you didn't try and make a profit out of buying and selling on here. Yes when ebay/inflation rates/or things generally going up in price get involved it gets more complex.



It used to be if barry sold me a bass for £700 and I didn't get on with it I would sell it for about £700 to someone else - even if the bass could have fetched a wee bit more elsewhere, sticking it up here for £1000 a month later... it's not 'wrong' as such but kinda against the spirit of the thing.

But then there are lots of different shades of it being right or wrong - like if I buy a bass and two years later everyone wants that bass so the value has gone up then aye you would stick the price up from what you paid. But if you bought something and 2 min later stuck it up... well the motivation for buying it seems to have been profit and not wanting to own a bass - that's when I think it can get a bit dubious for the forum. If it's about basses and there are small amount's of increase sometimes fine, if it's about folk trying to make a profit off each other then it all gets a bit crappy. (and if it is then shouldn't Basschat should be charging £5 per bass ad or something?)

Like I'm fairly good at photography and words - so I can make a bass look nice (which makes it easier to sell), you work in a bass shop so I'm sure could easily sell things through there at a higher price (even after comms) just cos we have the abilty to take something from someone in the community cheaply and turn it into profit through our skills.... it doesn't make it morally right does it?
[/quote]

I hear what you're saying Luke.

From a personal viewpoint I don't think I've ever bought a bass purely to make a profit on it. I do buy and sell a lot of stuff but pretty much every bass I buy is because I've really fancied owning it and giving it a try (I'm not including stuff where I've taken something in PX and have said up front I'm only doing it to sell onwards).

Every now and then I've picked something up that has almost immediately felt 'wrong' for one reason or another and I've re-sold it quickly. Most of the time I always like to give something a few months to bed in before selling.

I do put a lot of my basses up for sale through the shop where I help out and they will almost always go up for a higher price than I paid. There are loads of reasons for this.

Simple overheads of running a shop like rent, rates, phones etc. Poxy VAT that's chargeable on any 'added value', Credit card and PayPal fees, promotional costs of advertising etc. etc. it's amazing how much all this adds to the basic price of a bass but there are so few specialist bass retailers out there that I'm more than happy to support one that's just 20 mins from me. There's zilch in it for me but if it helps keep a little money heading their way then I'm fine with getting a little less from some stuff.

There's an added extra cost of using a pro luthier to set stuff up properly and/or adding new strings. As it happens someone recently took a run at me for selling at a profit on a bass that needed some serious luthier repair work and strings. Cost me over £120 to get it into a condition where I'd be happy to sell it. It's not something I'd promote because it would look bad on the person who sold it to me. However, I then got a message to say I was deliberately profiteering - I just ignored it

[LukeFRC]

[quote name='molan' timestamp='1359768734' post='1960248']
I hear what you're saying Luke.

From a personal viewpoint I don't think I've ever bought a bass purely to make a profit on it. I do buy and sell a lot of stuff but pretty much every bass I buy is because I've really fancied owning it and giving it a try (I'm not including stuff where I've taken something in PX and have said up front I'm only doing it to sell onwards).

[/quote] hence my point - it depends on the motive. Not everyone is as principled.

[Shambo]

I remember when blatant profiteering was frowned upon on this forum, and it wasn't so long ago. [i]Blatant[/i] being the operative word. We used to be looking out for each other and flippers would be given short shrift. Are we not doing that anymore? More's the pity.

Back OT, I hope this problem gets resolved asap.

[chaypup]

[quote name='LukeFRC' timestamp='1359766526' post='1960226']
too right- I've been reading this and wondering what has happened to this place in the last few years! Quite a change I think - I always thought there used to be a unwritten rule that you didn't try and make a profit out of buying and selling on here. Yes when ebay/inflation rates/or things generally going up in price get involved it gets more complex.



It used to be if barry sold me a bass for £700 and I didn't get on with it I would sell it for about £700 to someone else - even if the bass could have fetched a wee bit more elsewhere, sticking it up here for £1000 a month later... it's not 'wrong' as such but kinda against the spirit of the thing.


[/quote]

I think for most of us, if we made £300 profit on a bass then we'd only go spending it on more bass gear here anyway!
Personally, I realise that when I buy things from BC members I am the beneficiary of their good will and I get a well-priced bass and a good service, so I feel compelled to offer that same courtesy to others.

[Musky]

Im with Luke and Shambo on this. I think if someone wants to turn a profit by flipping something bought on here they should at least have the decency to sell it elsewhere. Selling it on here is a bit like rubbing people's noses in it.

I rather enjoyed it when this place felt like more of a community.

[wateroftyne]

[quote name='Musky' timestamp='1359802926' post='1960434']
I rather enjoyed it when this place felt like more of a community.
[/quote]

BC has what, 20,000 members? Out of those, you cant expect everyone to play the game.

Given that, I think BC has a pretty good community feel all things considered.

[Hutton]

[quote name='Shambo' timestamp='1359790753' post='1960297']
I remember when blatant profiteering was frowned upon on this forum, and it wasn't so long ago. [i]Blatant[/i] being the operative word. We used to be looking out for each other and flippers would be given short shrift. Are we not doing that anymore? More's the pity.

Back OT, I hope this problem gets resolved asap.
[/quote]

Yes, absolutely!

[GreeneKing]

[quote name='wateroftyne' timestamp='1359803905' post='1960454']
BC has what, 20,000 members? Out of those, you cant expect everyone to play the game.

Given that, I think BC has a pretty good community feel all things considered.
[/quote]

Nicely put.

[mcnach]

[quote name='wateroftyne' timestamp='1359803905' post='1960454']
BC has what, 20,000 members? Out of those, you cant expect everyone to play the game.

Given that, I think BC has a pretty good community feel all things considered.
[/quote]

I agree.

The point about the numbers is a very good one.
I think that there is certainly a good community here, but that's made from a very tiny proportion of the total: it's the ones you see contributing the most etc etc, the ones that you end up naturally exchanging a few PMs with, some you end up meeting in person... You cannot expect that the whole membership will feel as warm and fuzzy.
There will be some nasty individuals for sure. Out of 20000... there may even be a murderer or two! But their existence does not spoil the "community feeling", since they are not really the ones that are normally contributing to make this forum what it is.

I have noticed that in the past year there seems to have been a large influx of new blood. Some have become part of that "community" fast. Others not so much. The Sales forum is going to attract people who may just want to sell stuff. I say let them. It's easy to ignore what I don't like, and enjoy what I like about the forum.

[Musky]

[quote name='wateroftyne' timestamp='1359803905' post='1960454']


BC has what, 20,000 members? Out of those, you cant expect everyone to play the game.

Given that, I think BC has a pretty good community feel all things considered.
[/quote]
All things considered, yes. But as I noted earlier there does appear to have been a shift in opinion on this matter, and in other threads others have commented that the forum seems to be less supportive than before. All inevitable as the forum grows I suppose.

I can't help but think of talkbass, where there is a community of long standing members with high post counts. There are also a seemingly endless amount of newer members who like to disparage and deride others over the internet. The mods to their credit do try to keep on top of things, but inevitably this has led to a lot of rules and an outright banning of certain topics.

I know this has exercised the minds of the mods on here, but I can't help but wonder if BC will end up going the same route.

[mcnach]

[quote name='Musky' timestamp='1359805655' post='1960494']
All things considered, yes. But as I noted earlier there does appear to have been a shift in opinion on this matter, and in other threads others have commented that the forum seems to be less supportive than before. All inevitable as the forum grows I suppose.

I can't help but think of talkbass, where there is a community of long standing members with high post counts. There are also a seemingly endless amount of newer members who like to disparage and deride others over the internet. The mods to their credit do try to keep on top of things, but inevitably this has led to a lot of rules and an outright banning of certain topics.

I know this has exercised the minds of the mods on here, but I can't help but wonder if BC will end up going the same route.
[/quote]

I doubt it, as long as it remains UK-centric.

I observed something similar with usenet newsgroups back in the day... the US-centric ones seemed more competitive and aggressive, while the UK ones were mellower. There are great people and horrible people in either, but the trend was that. It may be a reflection of society in general.

[Big_Stu]

[quote name='wateroftyne' timestamp='1359803905' post='1960454']
BC has what, 20,000 members? Out of those, you cant expect everyone to play the game.

Given that, I think BC has a pretty good community feel all things considered.
[/quote]

Out of those 20k how many are active though? If you look at the members list there's a shed load who have joined but never contributed (some in Russian Cryliic) - or if they did it was years ago. Get rid of those for a more realistic figure; though in reply to someone who wanted to flounce the other week they were just told "Just stop logging in, simples ". Is there a number for "[i]active[/i] members"?

If I was to sell on here I'd keep it within the spirit of things - and while I can see the sense of not making compulsory % donations of the sold price to BC funds - I would think the genuine BCers are the ones who do make a worthwhile donation without having to be reminded.

[wateroftyne]

[quote name='Big_Stu' timestamp='1359808529' post='1960555']
Out of those 20k how many are active though?
[/quote]

Not a big proportion, but nearly 800 have been online in the last 15 minutes. So the amount of active users isn't small.

[pobrien_ie]

[quote name='Musky' timestamp='1359805655' post='1960494']

All things considered, yes. But as I noted earlier there does appear to have been a shift in opinion on this matter, and in other threads others have commented that the forum seems to be less supportive than before. All inevitable as the forum grows I suppose.

I can't help but think of talkbass, where there is a community of long standing members with high post counts. There are also a seemingly endless amount of newer members who like to disparage and deride others over the internet. The mods to their credit do try to keep on top of things, but inevitably this has led to a lot of rules and an outright banning of certain topics.

I know this has exercised the minds of the mods on here, but I can't help but wonder if BC will end up going the same route.
[/quote]

Funny that....on talkbass a find a lot the high posters seem to post their opinions as fact and be almost revered by the newbies.

BC is an altogether better place in my opinion....speaking as a relative newbie myself of course.

[Dmanlamius]

Its weird, because of all the people I've chatted to, most stay away from here because of negative experiences they have had, and move over to Talkbass.

Probably a coincidence. It does some to be quite a high ratio of people, though?

I don't post here that much, but you seem like a friendly bunch.

Edited February 2, 2013 by Dmanlamius

[warwickhunt]

[quote name='Dmanlamius' timestamp='1359810448' post='1960591']
Its weird, because of all the people I've chatted to, most stay away from here because of negative experiences they have had, and move over to Talkbass.
[/quote]

Really! That does surprise me... they've obviously been asking questions about whether under-powering a speaker causes it to implode!

[Roger2611]

Speaking as a proper newbie, I come here everyday, I really enjoy the site, I read with interest (and have contributed to some of) the new topics and whilst there is a certain amount of friendly banter in most threads, genuine answers seem to be there and I feel that if I need help or advice I will find it on here.

I have brought 1 bass since I joined the site and found it to be 100% better than the evilbay experience, to me this is a comunity that I am happy to be part of

[LukeFRC]

[quote name='mcnach' timestamp='1359804612' post='1960468']
You cannot expect that the whole membership will feel as warm and fuzzy.

[/quote] I felt warm and fuzzy when I met you McNach

[Big_Stu]

[quote name='pobrien_ie' timestamp='1359810051' post='1960584']
Funny that....on talkbass a find a lot the high posters seem to post ............[/quote]

(IMHO)........... insane posts along the lines of "help me choose what kind of tort scratchplate is best for death-metal club #3", which could only appeal to a teenage American.

[John Schoen]

95% of the messages there should be on TalkBS. There are some people there that know their stuff but the overwhelming majority of the posts there seem to be made by parrots posting second hand "knowledge" as facts.

[wateroftyne]

[quote name='John Schoen' timestamp='1359818640' post='1960735']
overwhelming majority of the posts there seem to be made by parrots posting second hand "knowledge" as facts.
[/quote]

It happens here, too.

[BetaFunk]

[quote name='wateroftyne' timestamp='1359819190' post='1960739']
It happens here, too.
[/quote]

[mcnach]

[quote name='Dmanlamius' timestamp='1359810448' post='1960591']
Its weird, because of all the people I've chatted to, most stay away from here because of negative experiences they have had, and move over to Talkbass.

Probably a coincidence. It does some to be quite a high ratio of people, though?

I don't post here that much, but you seem like a friendly bunch.
[/quote]


seriously?

I am, like many others here, in both Talkbass and Basschat. In Basschat since 2010 and in Talkbass since 2007. By far this is the friendliest of the two. There are great people over at TB, but there is more of a sycophantic attitude when it comes to "respected long standing members", and a more aggressive discussion where opinion and fact are often treated as one and the same.

I can only think that if someone starts here and as a newbie has "bad experiences" it's probably down to their attitude. Some people come here guns blazing (inti, where are you? ) and then get upset that people here don't like their attitude.

My observation here is that if you are cool and treat people respectfully here, you get treated the same way. Oh, and mods are not some kind of power hungry wanna be policemen over here.

Like I said, I am still on TB, but I only check it once in a while. I don't really like it there that much, but it's big and it can be a good source of information, if you are well equipped to filter the crap (like in any other forum, really).

[mcnach]

[quote name='LukeFRC' timestamp='1359811507' post='1960608']
I felt warm and fuzzy when I met you McNach
[/quote]

It's only because Cameron Toll feels very dry and cold.