Modding a vintage P Bass ?

[Stealth]

Why the "oh you dont wanna do that" comments from all in sundry when i suggest hacking holes (not literally) in a 77 P bass. The bass has a great sound maybe one and a half if you count rolling a bit of top off. But i want more so a J pickup or maybe MM in the bride position is what i want. So where do i take it to get a yop job done. Oh yeah and have the neck refinished too.

[Musky]

It's your bass so if that's what you want do what you like to it.

You might regret it in purely financial terms in years to come, but if that's not a concern and you'd just like something more to your liking, well - go for it.

[discreet]

OH, YOU DON'T WANNA DO THAT!!

[iiipopes]

If you do add a pickup, the best way to do it is to add a noise-cancelling Jazz bridge pickup so that it will be compatable with the Precision pickup, and add another hole to the pickguard along the same arc and spacing as the rest of the controls so it is wired standard Jazz-style V-V-T, moving the Precision volume to the new hole, the Jazz bridge pickup volume in the vacated hole, and leave the tone as a master tone and the jack as is.

Recommended pickups: Fralin split-coil Jazz, DiMarzio UltraJazz, Seymour Duncan vintage stack Jazz, Fender Noiseless Jazz, or other comparable pickup. With the original vintage P pickup, I'd be more likely to go with the Fralin, and it is easy to add the extra pot it takes and rewire it to V-V-T. Routing is straightforward, since it is an established mod, and I'd choose the '70's position to have a tad more contrast with the P pickup rather than the '60's position, since the P pickup is a little closer to the bridge than a vintage Jazz neck pickup is, but has a rounder tone due to the way the coils work together.

Edited February 5, 2013 by iiipopes

[topo morto]

[quote name='Stealth' timestamp='1360021958' post='1963826']
Why the "oh you dont wanna do that" comments
[/quote]

Some would be of the opinion that heritage items don't only belong to the owner, but to the world. Like if your house is a a listed building or something.

[ead]

[quote name='topo morto' timestamp='1360037347' post='1963892']
Some would be of the opinion that heritage items don't only belong to the owner, but to the world. Like if your house is a a listed building or something.
[/quote]

Hmm. With no disrespect to the OP or Mr Dead Mouse, I'm not convinced that a '77 P bass would be considered a heritage item, as they are hardly low volume production items and have the stigma associated with the post CBS production values.

Therefore go for it!

[Rumple]

My view is it's your bass and you can do what you like to it, personally I wouldn't mod it.

FWIW I always thought it would be better putting a P pup in the neck position of a Jazz Bass, (easily reversed to) but it isn't done that often.

[BigRedX]

[quote name='topo morto' timestamp='1360037347' post='1963892']
Some would be of the opinion that heritage items don't only belong to the owner, but to the world. Like if your house is a a listed building or something.
[/quote]

Seriously?

Listed buildings are mostly unique, historically important structures.

We're talking about a late 70s Fender bass here. Something that was churned out of a factory in their 1000s at a time when construction standards and quality control were at an all-time low. Unless the bass in question is in factory-fresh, pristine condition, with not a mark on it and still has its case and all the extras in a similar perfect state, it's hardly of any historical importance. However, considering that the OP is also considering having the neck refinished, I'm sensing that this is not the case.

To the OP. It's your bass, do what you wan to it. However before you do anything I would have a look and see if you can find a Fender-style bass with a PJ configuration that already meets all your requirements. These days the reason not to mod isn't that it ruins an existing instrument, but that the right instrument for you should already exist somewhere. It's a question of whether you can afford the time and energy looking for it.

I als find it interesting that making a modification to an bass that will almost definitely be an improvement to it as a usable instrument, is more likely to decrease its value than damage it has acquired in it playing life. Bonkers if you ask me.

[discreet]

[quote name='BigRedX' timestamp='1360056824' post='1964008']
Seriously?
[/quote]

Yes, 70s Fenders are now considered to be 'heritage' basses. Whether you take that seriously or not depends essentially on whether you're into Fenders - which you most certainly are not - an opinion you like to put forward at every opportunity.

[topo morto]

[quote name='ead' timestamp='1360053113' post='1963956']
Hmm. With no disrespect to the OP or Mr Dead Mouse, I'm not convinced that a '77 P bass would be considered a heritage item, as they are hardly low volume production items and have the stigma associated with the post CBS production values.
[/quote]

[quote name='BigRedX' timestamp='1360056824' post='1964008']
We're talking about a late 70s Fender bass here. Something that was churned out of a factory in their 1000s at a time when construction standards and quality control were at an all-time low. Unless the bass in question is in factory-fresh, pristine condition, with not a mark on it and still has its case and all the extras in a similar perfect state, it's hardly of any historical importance.
[/quote]

It's not a question of how many were made, but the number (probably still high) and condition (perhaps in many cases a bit ropey) of those that remain. As you say it may be that this one is towards the bottom of that pile anyway. If not, by modding it, rather that selling it and buying one of the many other excellent P/J's that I'm sure are available, you're arguably depriving someone of the chance to own an old thing that would be special to them, even if the item is not quite at the level of being of historical importance.

[discreet]

[quote name='topo morto' timestamp='1360058377' post='1964030']
...you're arguably depriving someone of the chance to own an old thing that would be special to them...
[/quote]

[size=4]Agree.[/size]

[quote name='topo morto' timestamp='1360058377' post='1964030']
...even if the item is not quite at the level of being of historical importance.
[/quote]

Disagree. The item is quite clearly of historical importance. 70s Fenders have a well-documented history and are much sought-after, as borne out almost daily on this very forum.
[color=#ffffff].[/color]

Edited February 5, 2013 by discreet

[johnDeereJack]

[quote name='Stealth' timestamp='1360021958' post='1963826']
[i]...or maybe MM in the bride position is what i want.[/i]
[/quote]
Oooh err missus! Sounds a bit rude!
Anyway, it's your bass so search for someone local/reputable and have the work done.

[Matt P]

i have to say that i love a P/J and my main bass is in fact a '77 P-bass with an added j-pup at the bridge (some kind of dimarzio we think) but i didn't do the work it was done years ago by a previous owner. if i had an unmodified p-bass then i wouldn't have the guts to have it modified. i'd probably be looking for a bass that already had the P/J config or getting a jazz and swapping the neck pickup for a P (easily done without major surgery)

having had a little glance at your collection of basses i'd have thought the jap p-bass might be the more likely candidate for an extra pickup, or maybe a p-pup in the jazz (might just require a new scratchplate if the routs are big enough and would be easily returned to standard spec)

but it's your bass so it's up to you what you do to it. if you do decide on a MM pickup then you'll need to reverse the p-pup to get it in the sweet spot, search on here for Pingray to see how it's done, i'm going for this pickup config on my new Letts 5 string.

Matt

[kingofthestuntmen]

As the owner of a modded '72 P, I'll be watching this thread with interest...

[IMG]http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e334/kingofthestuntmen/P-Bass/DSCF1701.jpg[/IMG]

This is a bass I will never sell as I inherited it. The original owners intentions were to add a J bridge & (possibly) a neck pup of some kind, a Badass and brass nut; he was a big Sheehan fan.

I had a Badass sourced and fitted, but never quite got round to adding the extra pickups. It may still happen, but it's more likely I'll replace the tuners first as the originals are a lil' cranky.

I'll bear in mind the advice re the best J to fit in case I ever get the urge...

[LukeFRC]

[quote name='discreet' timestamp='1360058244' post='1964029']
Yes, 70s Fenders are now considered to be 'heritage' basses. Whether you take that seriously or not depends essentially on whether you're into Fenders - which you most certainly are not - an opinion you like to put forward at every opportunity.
[/quote] I think that there are plenty of fender heads around too who would say that a mid-late fender isn't that special aswell. 5 years ago on this here forum the consensus was that the 60's ones were good but avoid the 70's ones like the plague. Just cos it says Fender on it doesn't mean it's some kind of holy relic.

[discreet]

[quote name='LukeFRC' timestamp='1360060634' post='1964081']
I think that there are plenty of fender heads around too who would say that a mid-late fender isn't that special aswell. 5 years ago on this here forum the consensus was that the 60's ones were good but avoid the 70's ones like the plague. Just cos it says Fender on it doesn't mean it's some kind of holy relic.
[/quote]

Who wouldn't want a 60s Fender over a 70s Fender? It's about affordability. I played a 70s Fender for decades and it was very good indeed - but there were certainly some dogs made in the 70s, it's true. Care needed. Try before you buy, etc. C[i]aveat emptor[/i].

Edited February 5, 2013 by discreet

[Stealth]

The nest of hornets well and truly disturbed then. i agree that the quality is up and down on Later 70's stuff. Each to their own on the heritage thing for me basses are for playing in the scheme of things potential loss is not an issue. Having sold the exact same year bass in 1984 for £180 im pretty sure in time i wont get too hammered on the deal as prices rise.

I have a mojo vintage pup i was gonna use.

Still the second part of the question remains any reccomendations where to get the work done. Neck needs a refi as somone has varnished it with a trowel by the feel of it lol.

[LukeFRC]

[quote name='discreet' timestamp='1360061283' post='1964092']
Who wouldn't want a 60s Fender over a 70s Fender? It's about affordability. I played a 70s Fender for decades and it was very good indeed - but there were certainly some dogs made in the 70s, it's true. Care needed. Try before you buy, etc. C[i]aveat emptor[/i].
[/quote] I'm not saying you can't find great Fender's from the 70's (or any era really) - more that there is nothing really heritage about most mid-late 70's basses that mean you would be committing some sin to mod them if you wanted too. I used to have a Cimar 1905ash model Jazz bass from 1975 - awesome player, older than the OP's bass, rarer too, never seen another one since- would it be wrong to mod that?

[discreet]

[quote name='LukeFRC' timestamp='1360061904' post='1964103']
I'm not saying you can't find great Fender's from the 70's (or any era really) - more that there is nothing really heritage about most mid-late 70's basses that mean you would be committing some sin to mod them if you wanted too. I used to have a Cimar 1905ash model Jazz bass from 1975 - awesome player, older than the OP's bass, rarer too, never seen another one since- would it be wrong to mod that?
[/quote]

Whether it's 'wrong' or 'a sin' is neither here nor there, and perhaps 'heritage' is the wrong word... this is of course a First World Issue. Maybe 70s Fenders command a premium price due to the current trend for all things 'retro'... who knows? I like 'em a lot, and so do plenty of others. I don't like the idea of them being messed around with, but of course it's not my bass and quite rightly it's not my decision - it's just my opinion - which I'm entitled to. Maybe the fact that I think you're entitled to it as well is the problem..? [size=4] [/size]

[size=4]I really should know better by now than to get involved in this kind of thread!! Must log off... and practise... bass...[/size]

Edited February 5, 2013 by discreet

[BigRedX]

[quote name='topo morto' timestamp='1360058377' post='1964030']
It's not a question of how many were made, but the number (probably still high) and condition (perhaps in many cases a bit ropey) of those that remain. As you say it may be that this one is towards the bottom of that pile anyway. If not, by modding it, rather that selling it and buying one of the many other excellent P/J's that I'm sure are available, you're arguably depriving someone of the chance to own an old thing that would be special to them, even if the item is not quite at the level of being of historical importance.
[/quote]

IMO if the OP thinks that the bass is perfect for him in every way except for the finish of the neck and lack of tonal versatility that would be solved by adding another pickup, and would be unlikely to ever want to sell the bass, then he should seriously consider making those changes.

If you really believe all that nonsense about late 70s Fenders being of historical importance, then surely they should all be tucked away safely in museums and other collections, where they won't suffer any further degradation through being used which as we can all see is gradually wearing them away.

[Stealth]

Time Out lol

So where do i take it ?

Have been reccomended Knight Gutars ?

[BigRedX]

Bass Gallery?

You could check out their stock at the same time to make sure that there wasn't likely to be a bass already in existence that would do exactly what you want.

[discreet]

[quote name='Stealth' timestamp='1360065038' post='1964166']
So where do i take it ?
[size=4]Have been reccomended Knight Gutars ?[/size]
[/quote]

Post some pics when it's finished, and let us know if you regret having it done!

[topo morto]

[quote name='BigRedX' timestamp='1360064147' post='1964145']
If you really believe all that nonsense about late 70s Fenders being of historical importance, then surely they should all be tucked away safely in museums and other collections, where they won't suffer any further degradation through being used which as we can all see is gradually wearing them away.
[/quote]

Historical importance is a sliding scale, and all subjective anyway - although the market can put a value on it, which in the case of 70's P Basses, it does. I personally think the value of things is in how much they are appreciated. Our local folk museum has stuff from the 18th century (not P basses sadly) that you can mess about with, which naturally causes them to wear out a little, but they've decided it's worth it on balance.

That 'natural wear' is qualitiatively different to making an alteration to something - I'm not saying I think mods are always wrong, but if everyone took an 'it's mine, I'll do what I want with it' attitude, little would survive more than a few generations. The impact on the resale price to the current owner shouldn't be the only consideration.

I'm not targetting the OP here, it sounds like you've considered such things anyway and wish you the best with the hole-hacking...

[BigRedX]

I would hazard a guess that the "stuff" in your folk museum is both pretty common and had a couple of centuries of development and refinement to arrive at the items that are on display. By comparison the bass guitar has only been around for just over 60 years and despite what some people might say, it still has plenty of room for improvement. Musicians are still experimenting with works best for them and the music that they play, and if that means making modifications to instruments that they own and otherwise feel comfortable with, then so be it.

Popular music is currently going through a phase where it's spending far too much time looking backwards and trying to preserve the past when the music and musicians from those eras were doing everything they could to throw out traditional notions of what music was and the instruments used to play it.

And am I the only one who is far more horrified by the wear to the finish in the P-Bass photo posted earlier in this thread - especially the thumb sized hole worn into the body - than the fact that the current owner has fitted a Badass bridge?