morsefull Posted February 5, 2013 Share Posted February 5, 2013 I've just received a J-retro from dodge bass and I'm going to fit it to my Lakland JO tomorrow night. Now I understand the new pre is "easy to fit" with screw fixings for the pickup wires, but I'll need to desolder the pots and the ground wire. I've never soldered or desoldered anything in my life. I've borrowed an old weller soldering "gun" which I think is rated at 100w. I don't want to ruin the pots or leave a mess in case I want to reinstall the passive electronics. Any tips for a first timer ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyfisher Posted February 5, 2013 Share Posted February 5, 2013 Yes - practice first. The easiest way to do damage when soldering is to take too long so that things get too hot. But if you rush too much, things won't get hot enough to form a good joint. That might make it sound difficult to learn, but it isn't really. You just need to develop enough confidence so you can be positive instead of hesitant. Find a few bits of old wire and practice until you feel comfortable. Desoldering is generally trickier than soldering, depending on how the joint has been made. For example, a wire may be wound around a pot terminal and then soldered. This will make a very secure joint, but it may be tricky to desolder the joint if you can't see how the wire has been wound around the terminal beneath the solder. You could consider just cutting the wires to the pot - though I'm not really sure exactly what you need to do so it's only a suggested option. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bertbass Posted February 5, 2013 Share Posted February 5, 2013 (edited) Forget the gun and use a 25w soldering iron and also forget lead free solder. Wait until the iron is hot. Clean the bit of the iron on a damp sponge. Tin the bit by melting a bit of solder on to it to allow the heat to flow. Put the tip onto the soldered joint and lift off the wires. If the wires are attached to the lugs with a mechanical joint, wrapped through the hole, then wiggle the wires as you pull them and they should pull out. Post crossed, but also what flyfisher said above. Edited February 5, 2013 by bertbass Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Protium Posted February 5, 2013 Share Posted February 5, 2013 A 100W gun is overkill, 25-35W iron is all you need. You might be best to simply cut the wires from the existing electronics as they'll need restripping anyway. That way no damage, and you can clean them up off the bass if you ever need to refit them Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bass24 Posted February 5, 2013 Share Posted February 5, 2013 Yes, the 100w is too much for this, I use a 100w iron to solder 1/2 inch lead came for the stained glass work I do. A 25 - 35w iron is fine. Get some Multicore solder & have a go at joining some copper wires first. As suggested cut the wire from the pots rather than trying to de-solder them, you are more likely to overheat the joints & damage the pots by trying to un-solder them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigRedX Posted February 5, 2013 Share Posted February 5, 2013 Before you cut or unsolder anything does the J-Retro actually fit a Lakland JO Bass? I know it looks like a Fender Jazz, but are the shapes of the pickguard and control plate the same? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
icastle Posted February 6, 2013 Share Posted February 6, 2013 [quote name='morsefull' timestamp='1360087604' post='1964677'] Any tips for a first timer ? [/quote] That Weller gun isn't the best tool for the job, they concentrate the heat on far too small a surface area and most electronics engineers steer away from them these days. There's a pretty useful thread which will take you through the basic steps - it worked out just fine for the OP so it should work fine for you too. http://basschat.co.uk/topic/110170-dull-solder-joint-why/page__hl__soldering Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BILL POSTERS Posted February 6, 2013 Share Posted February 6, 2013 (edited) Cut the old wires, dont try to unsolder them, Use a 25W iron if you can, if you cant and have to use a Weller, once its hot enough 'pulse' the trigger just enough to maintain the temperature rather than hold it in. and work quickly, thats important. Make sure the bit and the wires are clean, and tin wires first. Practice on something if you can, anything, old TV, old PCB something like that. Then practice a bit more. Make sure the old solder on the pots is melted properly, sometimes it helps to rub the tip on old solder to get t started,. You will find old type 60/40 22swg solder easier to work with as well, plenty available on ebay. and dont try and add too much, 1/4" is enough for a good joint. Dont worry about wrapping wires around terminals, just stick em on, Then give em a tug when you have finished to make sure you got it right. Edited February 6, 2013 by BILL POSTERS Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul_5 Posted February 6, 2013 Share Posted February 6, 2013 They're two expensive bits of kit - I know it sounds like you're chickening out, but have you considered getting a local (more experienced) BC'er to have a look for you? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
morsefull Posted February 6, 2013 Author Share Posted February 6, 2013 [quote name='paul_5' timestamp='1360136909' post='1965252'] They're two expensive bits of kit - I know it sounds like you're chickening out, but have you considered getting a local (more experienced) BC'er to have a look for you? [/quote] Good news! I was talking to the guitarist in the band and his brother works at an electronics switchgear company soldering for a living. He'll do it for me for nowt Thanks for all the advice though guys, I think I'm going to learn how for the next time. Hopefully this thread will be helpful to others in my situation in the future. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul_5 Posted February 6, 2013 Share Posted February 6, 2013 Brilliant! The East pre's are awesome, I'm sure you'll love it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigRedX Posted February 6, 2013 Share Posted February 6, 2013 If the J-Retro fits in the first place then no soldering is required at all. First take some good clear photographs or make some drawings of where all the existing wires go, so that if at any point in the future you need to return the bass to its original specification it will be fairly easy. One you've done that, cut the old wires from the pickups and the earth wire from the bridge as close to where they are soldered to the pots as you can to give you the maximum wire length available. Carefully strip back the insulation to reveal approximately 3-4mm of bare wire and twist the strands together. Fit these bare ends into the appropriate terminals on the J-Retro and screw them down securely. Job done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neepheid Posted February 6, 2013 Share Posted February 6, 2013 (edited) I've found that a 25W iron is a bit too weedy for doing big stuff like soldering to pot casings. You get ones with a "turbo boost" button so it's not too savage for little stuff normally but can give you extra oomph when you need it, that's quite handy. Also, soldering is a skill and an art. I've been soldering stuff on and off for years now, and I'm still crap at it. Crap in the sense that the end work will be functional and secure, but it won't be "pretty" (like neat and tidy pretty). Definitely have a few practice goes on some old stuff before you do it on something you care about. Other rookie mistakes I can think of - don't use the soldering iron as a prying tool while desoldering, that's not what it's for. Keep the tip clean otherwise it will gradually rot away. Edited February 6, 2013 by neepheid Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyfisher Posted February 6, 2013 Share Posted February 6, 2013 [quote name='neepheid' timestamp='1360153627' post='1965625'] Other rookie mistakes I can think of - don't use the soldering iron as a prying tool while desoldering, that's not what it's for. [/quote] You mean in case the desoldered wire suddenly comes free and you flick molton solder all over the place? Yeah, I learnt that one as a youngster when I went through a phase of taking apart old radios and stuff for their components. Soldering is a useful skill for anyone who dabbles with wires and stuff. Not too difficult to become 'adequate' with a bit of practice but, like most things, proper soldering takes a lot of time and experience. A bit like my welding really. I've made lots of bits and pieces for my old tractor with a mig welder and have repaired my ancient ride-on mower many times in the same way. Everything is good and solid but if a pro welder could see the results they'd fall about laughing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iiipopes Posted February 6, 2013 Share Posted February 6, 2013 The gun vs pencil soldering iron has been thrashed out above. Solder: traditionally, 60% lead / 40% tin with rosin core in the thinnest diameter you could get was historically the solder of choice. With modern legal limitations on the use of lead, you might not be able to find this alloy. When you go shopping for solder, ask an electronics supply store what is currently "legal," and get the lowest melting point alloy recommended. And make sure the core is ROSIN core -- stay away from acid core -- it is only used in industrial applications. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bertbass Posted February 6, 2013 Share Posted February 6, 2013 As far as solder goes, this will be perfect for you. http://www.rapidonline.com/Tools-Equipment/Rapid-Solder-Wire-60-40-22SWG-100g-Reel-85-0592 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
icastle Posted February 6, 2013 Share Posted February 6, 2013 [quote name='iiipopes' timestamp='1360160997' post='1965874'] The gun vs pencil soldering iron has been thrashed out above. Solder: traditionally, 60% lead / 40% tin with rosin core in the thinnest diameter you could get was historically the solder of choice. With modern legal limitations on the use of lead, you might not be able to find this alloy. When you go shopping for solder, ask an electronics supply store what is currently "legal," and get the lowest melting point alloy recommended. And make sure the core is ROSIN core -- stay away from acid core -- it is only used in industrial applications. [/quote] You can still get 60/40 over here if you hunt about for a little while. UK manufacturing and service businesses have largely adopted the low lead solder but there is currently no legal requirement for small scale users\ home hobbyists to use the new alloy... yet Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BILL POSTERS Posted February 6, 2013 Share Posted February 6, 2013 18 swg Ersin Savbit multicore. used to be the norm, and was it Resin cored, or Rosin cored - come to that, whats the difference ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
icastle Posted February 6, 2013 Share Posted February 6, 2013 [quote name='BILL POSTERS' timestamp='1360185828' post='1966474'] 18 swg Ersin Savbit multicore. used to be the norm, and was it Resin cored, or Rosin cored - come to that, whats the difference ? [/quote] It was billed as 'rosin cored'. Rosin is actually a resin, so either term would do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iiipopes Posted February 7, 2013 Share Posted February 7, 2013 [quote name='BILL POSTERS' timestamp='1360185828' post='1966474'] 18 swg Ersin Savbit multicore. used to be the norm, and was it Resin cored, or Rosin cored - come to that, whats the difference ? [/quote] "Resin" or "Rosin" is merely regional spelling difference. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BILL POSTERS Posted February 7, 2013 Share Posted February 7, 2013 Thanks. I thought Rosin was what you put on a violin bow, while resin was glue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
icastle Posted February 8, 2013 Share Posted February 8, 2013 [quote name='BILL POSTERS' timestamp='1360265203' post='1967831'] Thanks. I thought Rosin was what you put on a violin bow, while resin was glue. [/quote] I think rosin is essentially just dried resin from a tree. I suspect that the word 'resin' has been adopted as a descriptive word alongside the 'technical' usage of it... ...'the dark resinous water closed over his head as he slowly sank to the bottom' Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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