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Expression.

steve-soar

By steve-soar,
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chrismuzz Experienced

chrismuzz

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A serious one this time. If you don't like nasty fast technical metal, make sure your speakers aren't turned up too high before you press play :lol: The bassist in this band is an incredible fretless 6 string player. His feel and tone are to die for, as is the bass solo near the end. Nom!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v0MkJtI3FvU

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Marvin Veteran

Marvin

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Posted

[quote name='chrismuzz' timestamp='1360262117' post='1967749']
A serious one this time. If you don't like nasty fast technical metal, make sure your speakers aren't turned up too high before you press play :lol: The bassist in this band is an incredible fretless 6 string player. His feel and tone are to die for, as is the bass solo near the end. Nom!

[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v0MkJtI3FvU[/media]
[/quote]

I was enjoying that, right up to the point where the singer started to try and get rid of the fur ball stuck in his throat. :unsure:

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TheGreek Grand Master

TheGreek

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Came to this late - most entertaining...er..artistic??? ;) ;)

TBH I would have thought the OP would have asked for the topic to be locked when it denigrated into the pettiness it did...

Inti, I know life isn't a popularity contest but you're not making any friends here mate...chill a bit

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mcnach Grand Master

mcnach

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[quote name='Antiloco' timestamp='1360247162' post='1967310']
a) It works. It works perfectly. It may not work for you but that's another story.

b ) Actually no. I don't need to tell where my ideas come from. Because I don't care in the same way an amateur bass player doesn't get better than he needs to get.
The main difference here is that it's not me demanding to be respected in a philosophical forum... but here all amateurs and inmstrument collectors demand their views to be respected as if they were the ultimate truth. I'm very sorry but that's not going to happen. Not until you know more than me in my field. My apologies but that's the way it is and it has nothing to do with peoples value as human beings. It's all about knowing your place....You get that point don't you?

It's your urge to know were my thinking comes from so its your job. You have the tools, not me.

People use math all the time without knowing the theoretical part. Does it mean they can't use math?... Please.
[/quote]


I nearly stopped reading this thread when I saw what it was becoming... but I'm glad I did not, because this that you wrote relates a bit to a conversation I was having with another BC member a couple of weeks ago when he visited my town and he came to a gig of mine.

He is an engineer, and loves music and bass in particular. I started out towards engineering but I became a biologist, and I love music and bass in particular these days. The conversation we had was about how professional musicians must feel about us non-professionals discussing their field.
I can only imagine it can get tricky.
I am not sure how I would feel if I joined a conversation of "weekend-molecular-biologists". But I know how I feel when I read what some people who know a little (but not much) write about subjects I know a fair amount more than they do, and I can see their errors. It happened yesterday, for instance, when a colleague of mine received a chapter in a "book" that some guy wrote about human disease and cancer and diet in the western world... The guy clearly is no biologist, has no medical training or scientific training of any kind in fact... I was *annoyed* before I reached the second page. His lack of unerstanding was so vast that it would just not be reasonable for me to discuss it (I just don't have the time for it)... and had he been in front of me, I think he could have probably felt I was just an arrogant scientist belittling him because he does not measure to the standard I hold myself to.

Hmmm.

I can imagine a professional musician feeling similarly "unimpressed" by some of the ramblings of us, largely untrained non-professionals.

Am I on the right track?

I think this gets complicated because we are talking something we call "art".
If we talk mathematics, physics, chemistry... we can be right or wrong and be certain about it to a reasonable extent. Biology is a bit "fuzzier", as we know a great deal, but there is a lot more that we don't know, and we work on the data we have, making assumtions and interpreting results... and next year's results can tell us that a certain "truth" we hold today, cannot be true for we found data that contradicts it. But we can discuss things using discrete hard data.

But how do we discuss art? How do we discuss music?
On the one hand, there are theoretical aspects or harmony etc that one can use. I know very little. My brother, however, trained for years and is a professional... Because I am interested in all things musical, I have been present when he and others were discussing the whys and hows about a certain composition my brother made... and it was quite amazing for me that there was a lot more behind the music than I had at first imagined, when I listened to the piece being played.
For me, music is emotional, above anything else. That is enough for me (it just would not be practical for me to dedicate the time that would be required for me to learn so much that I should learn). But emotion is only one part of it. Other people can understand the music way beyond the level I can.

And that's ok.
I can accept that wholeheartedly.
It does not feel good if someone puts me down, however, because I am stuck at that mostly emotional level. Why? It's a beautiful part of music.
But, like I said above... I can see how someone who studies music a lot more deeply and makes it his profession (his life, in many ways), can feel exasperated sometimes with people who do not take the time and effort to study music and still carry themselves (or are seen as carrying themselves!) as "artists".
It's a tough one, 'though, because art, music, generates passion. Something that connects with us so deeply at an emotional level, and makes us passionate about it... well, belittle someone about it and he is going to jump and bite your jugular. If I play a simple ska song, with no more than 4-5 chords and very simple bassline patterns... it makes me feel good. I enjoy it. Many others enjoy it. Then I hear the trumpets and saxophones doing their thing (a professional would have a better name for "doing their thing" and could appreciate some clever interplays better than my simple "makes me smile" emotion), and wait until the trombone comes in and sits between the trumpets and the bassline... When it works, it's beautiful, I enjoy it and people dance like mad to it. Great. I can imagine that from a purely musical point of view, that ska song can get boring before it's even started,, for some. I can understand and accept that, and I don't have any pretensions to create any great music... because I know my limitations very well.

I enjoy music the way I can enjoy it, with the tools and knowledge I currently have. I admire those who go beyond that and can produce something more "elevated"... and just because I cannot understand the ins and outs it doesn't mean I cannot admire it and appreciate it to some degree. Obviously, my "review" about such a piece is not going to be of much use to that creator, as our levels are so mismatched... But I can still enjoy it, perhaps, in my own way.

Is it necessary to call me ignorant (even if it's true I am not very knowledgeable, so I guess I am ignorant to some degree), a clown (because I enjoy the fact that others enjoy and are entertained by what I play), and a whore (because I take money for it)?
You call that to one person... and they may respond or ignore it. You call that to a whole group of people... and you are going to get sparks flying.

I have always tried to surround myself with people better than I am, in everything: when practicing judo, when playing guitar, when learning science... That's what pushes you it helps you improve.
For that reason, I wish we could have a hundred people with your knowledge, ability and experience in this forum. I think that makes this place richer. I also want the "weekend warriors" who do not know what a chord is but have been playing bars for 20 or 30 years, for they have other things to contribute. And bedroom players of all skills and ambitions. And the gear geeks who know everything about the nuances between different envelope filter pedals... and those who are not very good players and don't know music, but are good at the electronics of things that can produce musical notes.
I am sure we all know our place, something I think you criticised earlier. You do have a point, I concede, about people talking about things they do not understand as well as they think they do... but if it happens I am sure it's motivated by passion, a passion for music, that I hope you could relate to even if most don't pursue it as deeply as you have. And I wish you could accept that and not have to be condescending towards them (us)...
I am not sure what you gain from contributing here, but you must obtain something or you would have left already, and I have been in the past annoyed at the way you say things (usually not so much the real content, but the form) but even with that I can see that you have something that could be of interest for me, even if I do not study music and lack the ability to comprehend music's finer details... I do listen a lot more than I talk, and read a lot more than I write. That's ok by me.

My question to you:
- in my ramblings above (sorry if it seems to jump a bit), have I touched a bit of why you say the things you say?
- if the answer is yes, is it possible to say them without sounding so hostile? Obviously I do not want to and it would be too arrogant of me to try to change the way you are. But if it were possible to communicate your thoughts in a less confrontational manner, I know quite a few of us would rather enjoy having you around, for you clearly have a lot to offer... and I hope you find here something that's also of interest to you (most probably not from me, granted).

Peace?

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Evil Undead Rising Star

Evil Undead

Posted
Posted

[quote name='chrismuzz' timestamp='1360262117' post='1967749']
A serious one this time. If you don't like nasty fast technical metal, make sure your speakers aren't turned up too high before you press play :lol: The bassist in this band is an incredible fretless 6 string player. His feel and tone are to die for, as is the bass solo near the end. Nom!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v0MkJtI3FvU
[/quote]

I like this, who are they?

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