Major Label - yes or no?

[Roland Rock]

I suspect that many Basschatters in originals bands would kill (just an expression) to get signed to a major label. I have a friend who was, and is now very cynical and disillusioned with the industry.

This article gives an interesting account of a band being signed, and then things not exactly going to plan.
http://www.imposemagazine.com/features/bill-bairds-brief-history-of-major-label-blah

Despite the horror stories, my view is nothing ventured, nothing gained. Even if you end up on the rubbish pile, at least you have that experience, and hopefully some great gigs and an album or two.

Anyone had major label experiences, good or bad?
Or maybe you're so principled you would never consider it!

[Lfalex v1.1]

I guess it depends upon what you're offered, where you are in your music career, and if you can find the best contract lawyer in the known universe to analyze your deal...

[paul_5]

You can still have a couple of albums and some great gigs doing it off your own bat - it's MUCH harder work, but you retain the rights to your material...

[Lozz196]

[quote name='paul_5' timestamp='1360230350' post='1966947']
You can still have a couple of albums and some great gigs doing it off your own bat - it's MUCH harder work, but you retain the rights to your material...
[/quote]

Yes, in The Tuesday Club we are releasing an album - on vinyl and cd - in April. We have a distribution deal with Townsend/Universal Records, but that is all, so we have control over the material.

[uncle psychosis]

Personally speaking, I wouldn't care about whether or not a label was "major". I'd care about the terms of the deal.

[bremen]

Not my own experience, but:

http://www.negativland.com/news/?page_id=17

[BigRedX]

It's all down to what is in the contract.

However I'm finding it very hard to see what sorts of advantages the majority of "traditional" types of record deals have for a well-organised band in the 2010s. These days I think it's all about advertising/promotional budgets, personal contacts and efficient organisation. I would certainly need all sorts of solid guarantees about how the hard the record company was going to work for us and how effectively they were going to spend our advance before even thinking about signing anything.

What I find incredible at the moment is the number of small labels that exist and that bands are still "signing" to them. Maybe if you are completely broke and have no organisational skills, they can offer you some advantages, but I've always found ways to do stuff on non-existent budgets that don't involve giving up the rights to your creativity, and badly organised bands have to be utterly brilliant from a musical PoV to counteract for their tendency towards self-destruction.

Also with digital distribution and the collapse of physical record shops, I'm failing to see what a distribution deal can do for a band. Anyone with $50 and a bit of time to do the research can get their "album" onto iTunes and Amazon downloads. IME putting your vinyl or CD in the few shops remaining across the UK is of little value unless you are going to tour to promote it, and then I've found that sales at gigs far out-weigh sales in the shops. Maybe if your deal comes with a hefty amount of PR and advertising it might be worth it, but otherwise the way things are at the moment I don't see how it can offer anything a band can't do themselves and retain 100% of the profits at the same time.

I have to admit I've never been in the situation of having a record deal, although bands I've been with in the past have been courted by several medium-weight labels, it never went any further, so maybe I'm not in possession of all the facts, but from what I have seen no-one's ever offered me the right deal for me to be tempted.

[molan]

I worked with Universal for a while (on two separate occasions in fact).

I met the heads of each division and a lot of other senior people. Almost universally (see what I did there) unpleasant people to work with. So, so pretentious and self absorbed, one of them told me, in all seriousness, that without him there wouldn't have been an Amy Winehouse - I've read a fair bit about her and listed to some good radio docs, his name was never mentioned.

Another told me he 'invented' Mumford & Sons. Tried to make out he'd come up with the image, style of music, etc etc in some sort of Svengali like way.

I spent about 5 years working in movie promotion as well and, whilst the movie guys were tougher, they weren't in the same league as the music biz people for out and out pretentiousness.

I've had a couple of good friends at smaller labels and independent management and they are so much more professional, switched on and dedicated to their bands. Much more interested in generating success for the band rather than simply puffing their own egos

[Stu-khag]

its done the rounds for years and been mentioned on here a few times but i still think it holds some relevance.
Mr Albini's view:-
http://www.negativland.com/news/?page_id=17

what would I do? depends on how much support the label were to offer.

[discreet]

[quote name='uncle psychosis' timestamp='1360230626' post='1966957']
Personally speaking, I wouldn't care about whether or not a label was "major". I'd care about the terms of the deal.
[/quote]

That's it. The terms of each deal are different according to circumstance. The horror stories come from musicians (not the most businesslike of people, it has to be said) failing to understand what their obligations are and failing to understand that even if you're signed to a label it won't necessarily look out for your best interests.

Edited February 7, 2013 by discreet

[Dave Vader]

[quote name='BigRedX' timestamp='1360234174' post='1967020']
I don't see how it can offer anything a band can't do themselves and retain 100% of the profits at the same time.
[size=4][/quote][/size]

[size=4]I do agree, but some musicians are a bit flaky, fuzzy headed and not keen on doing the businessy promoty stuff. Thus the "labels" are damn useful for doing the legwork while you just play tunes and float along.[/size]
[size=4]Though a friendly manager type would do the job a lot better. [/size]

[size=4]FWIW, our label are not funding the 2nd album (not even close to major) but will do the distribution side of it for us if we ever get it done.[/size]

[BigRedX]

[quote name='Dave Vader' timestamp='1360237438' post='1967090']
[/size]
FWIW, our label are not funding the 2nd album (not even close to major) but will do the distribution side of it for us if we ever get it done.
[/quote]

If you don't mind me asking, where and how will your album be distributed (physical, digital?) and what extras in terms of promotion and advertising will your band be getting as part of the deal?

[Cat Burrito]

I'm surprised anyone would want a major deal these days. Sure, I would have loved one 20yrs ago but the industry has changed a lot. I'd rather a decent Indie label with some muscle and a solid reputation.

We signed to the record label who I wanted in 2010 and we're doing our 2nd record with them now. I guarantee the return is much better and we get much more creative freedom which was the main factor. In an ideal world I'd like to be able to do this full time but I suspect that ship sailed 20yrs ago!

[flyfisher]

[quote name='BurritoBass' timestamp='1360238564' post='1967116']
I'm surprised anyone would want a major deal these days. Sure, I would have loved one 20yrs ago but the industry has changed a lot. I'd rather a decent Indie label with some muscle and a solid reputation.
[/quote]

Wouldn't a 'decent' label with 'muscle and a solid reputation' make them a major label?

I'm with UncleP - the terms of the contract should be what counts, not the name of the company

A friend's lad has signed with Columbia after his first year of a music and performance course at Bristol uni. Apparently, the labels treat the course (and no doubt others) as a shop window and those offered deals then leave uni to concentrate on their music career - which might suggest that all the graduates of such courses are the ones the record companies didn't want.

[BigRedX]

[quote name='BurritoBass' timestamp='1360238564' post='1967116']
I'm surprised anyone would want a major deal these days. Sure, I would have loved one 20yrs ago but the industry has changed a lot. I'd rather a decent Indie label with some muscle and a solid reputation.

We signed to the record label who I wanted in 2010 and we're doing our 2nd record with them now. I guarantee the return is much better and we get much more creative freedom which was the main factor. In an ideal world I'd like to be able to do this full time but I suspect that ship sailed 20yrs ago!
[/quote]

I would have thought that now only the kind of money that a major label could offer would be sufficient to tempt a band away from what they could do on their own, given how cheap and easy it is to produce and distribute your recordings.

Are the label completely funding your album or do you have to put some of your own money in? What's the budget? What promotion are they going to do for it? PM me if you don't want to discuss these things in the open forum.

[LukeFRC]

[quote name='molan' timestamp='1360234466' post='1967023']
Another told me he 'invented' Mumford & Sons. Tried to make out he'd come up with the image, style of music, etc etc in some sort of Svengali like way.

[/quote]

interesting. I have some of the same friends as the lead singer. It's funny when he was writing the songs in his bedroom in Edinburgh I never heard anyone talk about major record companies turning up the whole time....

[Dave Vader]

[quote name='BigRedX' timestamp='1360237803' post='1967102']
If you don't mind me asking, where and how will your album be distributed (physical, digital?) and what extras in terms of promotion and advertising will your band be getting as part of the deal?
[/quote]

The main benefit is the physical distribution side, as they have a link to some major distribution types. Though as you say that is dying off now anyway.

FWIW I never signed or saw this contract, it was all sorted out with our singer, who was a solo artist at the time, so I'm still the hired help as far as that's concerned.

Also, the record label appear to have done bugger all in the way of promotion and advertising, whereas the management have been ace.
However, I am not privy to all the discussions and wrangling that has gone on in the last year, and may have the wrong end of the stick.
most of those in charge appear to be stuck in the 80s though where the music biz is concerned.
This is changing, as we appear to be moving towards a more self-managed system, with no objections from anybody else yet.

[Cat Burrito]

[quote name='flyfisher' timestamp='1360239895' post='1967145']
Wouldn't a 'decent' label with 'muscle and a solid reputation' make them a major label?

I'm with UncleP - the terms of the contract should be what counts, not the name of the company

A friend's lad has signed with Columbia after his first year of a music and performance course at Bristol uni. Apparently, the labels treat the course (and no doubt others) as a shop window and those offered deals then leave uni to concentrate on their music career - which might suggest that all the graduates of such courses are the ones the record companies didn't want.
[/quote]

Re your first point, not necessarily and I wouldn't want anyone to misconstrue what I say as a purely Anti-Majors rant. I do think the Majors have ripped off a lot of acts but then I'm sure most on here have also been had over by 2 penny promoters too at the other end of the scale. Some so called Indie labels were always major labels trying to give themselves an edgy vibe by making up a new name but there are plenty of small record labels with some weight behind them.

Of course we're all wanting the good contract over the name and only an idiot would sacrifice artistic freedom for the name (plenty do!)

[Cat Burrito]

[quote name='BigRedX' timestamp='1360240640' post='1967168']
I would have thought that now only the kind of money that a major label could offer would be sufficient to tempt a band away from what they could do on their own, given how cheap and easy it is to produce and distribute your recordings.

Are the label completely funding your album or do you have to put some of your own money in? What's the budget? What promotion are they going to do for it? PM me if you don't want to discuss these things in the open forum.
[/quote]

Yep, agree with the first point here and I think the increase at the time of sites like MySpace was when things started to really change. My band at the time had 28,000+ hits to our page which is a far cry from spending the early 90s cutting up sleeves for our C20 cassettes to mail out.

Yeah, our label is tiny but very credible within the scene I play. We've part funded a lot but they have done a bunch of stuff we couldn't do ranging national press to endorsements. We're realistic, the Americana scene in the UK is small but dedicated so we'd never hope to make a living with this. We recently did a national press interview with a bloke in the know and his first question was "well, you've all obviously going to need day jobs so what do you do?"

I appreciate my circumstances are perhaps very different to some kid at music college or someone playing a different genre. I think some of the smaller sub genres must be similar to what we do in outlook and attitude. And I certainly hope nobody misconstrues any of my points as some misguided declaration that we've somehow "made it". We do ok but it is what it is and operates nicely on the level it is at.

[BigRedX]

[quote name='Dave Vader' timestamp='1360241367' post='1967181']
The main benefit is the physical distribution side, as they have a link to some major distribution types. Though as you say that is dying off now anyway.

FWIW I never signed or saw this contract, it was all sorted out with our singer, who was a solo artist at the time, so I'm still the hired help as far as that's concerned.

Also, the record label appear to have done bugger all in the way of promotion and advertising, whereas the management have been ace.
However, I am not privy to all the discussions and wrangling that has gone on in the last year, and may have the wrong end of the stick.
most of those in charge appear to be stuck in the 80s though where the music biz is concerned.
This is changing, as we appear to be moving towards a more self-managed system, with no objections from anybody else yet.
[/quote]

Interesting and sort of what I'd feared.

15 years ago when the band I was in at the time released it's single we were desperate for a distribution deal, as it was the only way of getting our recording out to the majority of the CD public. In the end it was a complete nightmare. It tied up a fair amount of our stock in distribution limbo, the financial returns were puny and trying to get back the unsold CDs took forever. At least we didn't suffer the fate of a friend of mine whose band lost their entire pressing when the distributer went bust.

This time around with the Terrortones, we didn't even bother looking at a physical distribution deal. We signed up with the digital distribution that gave us the best deal based on what we thought we would sell and our tracks were up on iTunes and Amazon before the end of the week. We sell actual CDs at gigs and by mail order direct from our web site. ATM Most people who want our music buy at CD when they come to see us play, but we've still sold more CDs via our web site then I did from my previous band's distribution deal.

[BigRedX]

[quote name='BurritoBass' timestamp='1360242097' post='1967204']
Yep, agree with the first point here and I think the increase at the time of sites like MySpace was when things started to really change. My band at the time had 28,000+ hits to our page which is a far cry from spending the early 90s cutting up sleeves for our C20 cassettes to mail out.

Yeah, our label is tiny but very credible within the scene I play. We've part funded a lot but they have done a bunch of stuff we couldn't do ranging national press to endorsements. We're realistic, the Americana scene in the UK is small but dedicated so we'd never hope to make a living with this. We recently did a national press interview with a bloke in the know and his first question was "well, you've all obviously going to need day jobs so what do you do?"

I appreciate my circumstances are perhaps very different to some kid at music college or someone playing a different genre. I think some of the smaller sub genres must be similar to what we do in outlook and attitude. And I certainly hope nobody misconstrues any of my points as some misguided declaration that we've somehow "made it". We do ok but it is what it is and operates nicely on the level it is at.
[/quote]

And IMO it's contacts and getting the right promotion which results in positive reviews and interviews and promoting your reputation through association with other bands on the label is where the good small record company still excels and provides resources that most bands doing their own thing can't match. It definitely helps if you are part of a niche genre because that means you get access to an audience that is already open to the style of music you are playing.

The difficult part comes when you need to step up from your current situation, because I'm guessing like most bands (certainly it's true for the Terrortones) what you are lacking most of is time to really work on the band and to not need to spend so many hours doing things you have to do in order to be able to do the things you want to do as a band.

[Bilbo]

I am a Jazz musician. I have no place in this thread

[alstocko]

[quote name='Bilbo' timestamp='1360263885' post='1967801']
I am a Jazz musician. I have no place in this thread
[/quote]
I'm a Jazz fusion musician. I'm white and play hip-hop and funk grooves in improvised sections.

I have no place anywhere