Double bass player injuries

[oggiesnr]

[quote name='lowlandtrees' timestamp='1360654600' post='1973931']
Are these 2 videos not giving conflicting advise?
[/quote]

One of the few things that I've learnt about Double Bass is that there are at least two ways of doing anything. However whilst the videos give different ways of achieving it they are both looking at the same thing, how to "hold" the bass without doing yourself a long term injury. Which you use is, I suspect, a matter of trial and error and seeing which one works for us individually but the ultimate aim is the same, being able to play the bass in comfort and without damage.

Steve

[ubassman]

[quote name='lowlandtrees' timestamp='1360654600' post='1973931']
Are these 2 videos not giving conflicting advise?
[/quote]

Instrument leaners on the left ...body benders on the right !

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kvPZkFN73Z8

[thisnameistaken]

[quote name='oggiesnr' timestamp='1360684771' post='1974622']
the ultimate aim is the same, being able to play the bass in comfort and without damage.
[/quote]

You missed out looking cool.

[fatback]

Helpful thread this. It's encouraged me to experiment and to think, and I hadn't been doing enough of that.

I tried the John Clayton 'longer pin and angle it out' approach and it's working out well. I can have a long pin and reach right down the full length of the fretboard without bending. Before, not only did I have to bend but the bout of the bass got under my armpit and in the way.

I can stand straight for pizz now, although for arco nearer the tailpiece (as distinct from mid way between bridge and tailpiece) , I still have to bend too much. Not sure anything can be done about that, and it's really only a problem in the 'D' thumb position and higher.

I noticed that the angled bass really needs a flick of the hip, when coming out of thumb position, to get a decent left hand posture, but maybe I always did that and am only noticing now I'm aware of posture more.

Altogether a real improvement. Only downside is that the angled bass tends to slip, a problem I never had before. I've got one of those jointed sucker feet jobs, so i might try that.

All very interesting and helpful, and thanks to OP and all for encouragement to take this seriously.

[ubassman]

Mabye worth experimenting with this ? - seems to be a bent end pin that fits into a standard 10mm socket without re-drilling http://www.slavapub.net/Endpins-Bent_endpin.html

[fatback]

[quote name='ubassman' timestamp='1360845984' post='1977257']
Mabye worth experimenting with this ? - seems to be a bent end pin that fits into a standard 10mm socket without re-drilling [url="http://www.slavapub.net/Endpins-Bent_endpin.html"]http://www.slavapub....ent_endpin.html[/url]
[/quote]

Looks well worth a try.

I'm gonna wait till I settle on an endpin length though. I keep changing mine atm.

[Bass Lady]

Having had to retire from full time playing as I hit 30 I have read this thread with interest. Some great advice being given and as an orchestral player I used to sit in a similar fashion to Ubassman, right foot on floor to balance with left leg supporting bass. My problems though were caused way before I was ever taught how to "sit properly". As a kid, like the other bass players around, I would sit on a stool which was way to tall for me with the result that BOTH my feet used to be on the foot rest on the stool. This meant I was sitting with quite a curved back (stooping) to play and when we often used to play for hours and hours of rehearsals in a day this started my shoulder / back problems very early on. Being told "well if you want to be a professional you will have to live with it" was not a very helpful solution and by the time I got to music college, I think most of the damage had been done. To even prove my theory a little more, out of the youth bass section I played with (county level) 3 of us went on to play full time, the older two of us have suffered for many years with problems whilst the younger bassist who got told by us to sit properly (we had been taught properly by this point) has as far as I am aware not had the same problems.

As a bass teacher I am very very concious of teaching a proper sitting posture from the very beginning of lessons to any pupil and have encouraged many other string teachers (non bass specialists) to do the same.

Another issue though for causing back problems with bassists is how players carry their instruments. I know (before the wheel) I used to carry mine on my back using a strap, normally carrying a stool plus stand etc. This cannot be good either! LOL

Edited February 20, 2013 by Bass Lady

[ubassman]

[quote name='Bass Lady' timestamp='1360849348' post='1977327']

Another issue though for causing back problems with bassists is how players carry their instruments. I know (before the wheel) I used to carry mine on my back using a strap, normally carrying a stool plus stand etc. This cannot be good either! LOL
[/quote]

...as in?

[Bass Lady]

[quote name='ubassman' timestamp='1360849872' post='1977335']
...as in?


[/quote]

LOL!

[ubassman]

[quote name='Bass Lady' timestamp='1360849348' post='1977327']
Having had to retire from full time pulling as I hit 30 I have read this thread with interest. Some great advice being given and as an orchestral player I used to sit in a similar fashion to Ubassman, right foot on floor to balance with left leg supporting bass. My problems though were caused way before I was ever taught how to "sit properly". As a kid, like the other bass players around, I would sit on a stool which was way to tall for me with the result that BOTH my feet used to be on the foot rest on the stool. This meant I was sitting with quite a curved back (stooping) to play and when we often used to play for hours and hours of rehearsals in a day this started my shoulder / back problems very early on. Being told "well if you want to be a professional you will have to live with it" was not a very helpful solution and by the time I got to music college, I think most of the damage had been done. To even prove my theory a little more, out of the youth bass section I played with (county level) 3 of us went on to play full time, the older two of us have suffered for many years with problems whilst the younger bassist who got told by us to sit properly (we had been taught properly by this point) has as far as I am aware not had the same problems.

As a bass teacher I am very very concious of teaching a proper sitting posture from the very beginning of lessons to any pupil and have encouraged many other string teachers (non bass specialists) to do the same.

Another issue though for causing back problems with bassists is how players carry their instruments. I know (before the wheel) I used to carry mine on my back using a strap, normally carrying a stool plus stand etc. This cannot be good either! LOL
[/quote]

+1 !

FWIW I use a K + M stool with an adjustable back rest and folds up really easily - expensive bit of kit but cheaper than chiropractors bills ! http://www.contrabass.co.uk/k_and_m_folding_tripod_stool.htm

[sarah thomas]

I recently had an Alexander Technique session on carrying my double bass. I'd stand it (in its padded case) on its endpin, grab the handle nearest to me and heave it up, bending backwards in the process to clear the floor. (I'm 5'6")
'Why use that handle?' asked my teacher.
'Because it's nearest to my hand,'said I.
'What's that handle for?' She pointed to the handle lower down, nearer to the floor.

Duh. Clearance no problem, back not contorting any more. The other thing I was doing was grabbing the handle in a grip that made a fist of my hand, when all I needed to do was make a hook shape with my fingers. After these revelations, I stood and talked for at least five minutes before realising that I was still carrying the bass. It was so much less effort that I hadn't even noticed.

I didn't half feel stupid, though.

[ubassman]

[quote name='sarah thomas' timestamp='1360855641' post='1977497']
I recently had an Alexander Technique session on carrying my double bass. I'd stand it (in its padded case) on its endpin, grab the handle nearest to me and heave it up, bending backwards in the process to clear the floor. (I'm 5'6")
'Why use that handle?' asked my teacher.
'Because it's nearest to my hand,'said I.
'What's that handle for?' She pointed to the handle lower down, nearer to the floor.

Duh. Clearance no problem, back not contorting any more. The other thing I was doing was grabbing the handle in a grip that made a fist of my hand, when all I needed to do was make a hook shape with my fingers. After these revelations, I stood and talked for at least five minutes before realising that I was still carrying the bass. It was so much less effort that I hadn't even noticed.

I didn't half feel stupid, though.
[/quote]



I have a good friend who is a chiropractor and movement specialist - he earns a living out of dealing with folk who have managed to find ways to move that the body really doesn't like . He is of the firm belief that most of us have really poor physical literacy skills and knowledge about our own physiology ...even when it comes to simple things like sitting correctly.

Alexander Technique I think is really valid and it would nt be a bad thing for us to have a better understanding on this front ! Unless we go to the gym or work hard physically in our day jobs the only other time we load our body is picking up our instruments ( and of course lugging the suitcases on holiday - interestingly 15kg Easy Jet allowance per suitcase is lighter than your average DB ! )

[odonovanr]

Thanks for this discussion. I have used Klinghoffer's video and was impressed by the "look, no hands!" but recently I have felt strains in the shoulder and, more worrying, pain in the left wrist. But then John Clayton seems to have a very interesting point: how far can we go down the fingerboard without bending over? And he doesn't really hold the DB either!
The fact that I play with the bow is probably not relevant here.
So, off to try tilting the DB!

[leadubblebass]

I have always found playing with the bow the hardest because the DB has to be away from your body to have room for the bow and pressure
is applyed to the bow- at arms length, at least with jazz/rockabilly the bass is close to you. I did once play with a johnny cash tribute and lost all feeling
in my left hand because every number was the same root/fifth pattern

[slumjacket]

[quote name='ubassman' timestamp='1360497716' post='1971172']
Thanks for posting John Clayton's tip ! +1 on that - pretty much how I stand ...if I have to play stood up . The subtlety of the video is that in order to reach the thumb position he move the bass and angles it more ...rather than the body bending over , but as he comes out of the thumb position the bass goes back to being more upright . In terms of reach the choice is either the bass moves, or the body bends ( as John used to do it) .

I find that even at that I can sometimes feel stress building in my lower back . Perhaps its with the weight of the bass leaning on the hip joint for pronged periods ? ...I just don't seem to get aches at all sat down and I would certainly recommend giving that a try to anyone who suffers with back problems.

Have a look at Dan Berglund playing all different techniques sat down without shifting the bass [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5L7j6qImrlM[/media]
( probably never everyones cup of tea! ) ...I hasten to add that Dan also plays stood up from time to time !!
[/quote]

[slumjacket]

Sorry many to add that, that is definitely my cup of tea. What great but of music!

[blinddrew]

[quote name='oggiesnr' timestamp='1360359083' post='1969477']
This is quite a good video on the subject
Steve
[/quote]

I have concluded that my belly is bigger than Mr Klinghoffer's :¬(