"The Beatles!"

[Lowender]

[quote name='BigRedX' timestamp='1360612131' post='1973442']
Really?

Do you have so little ambition and confidence in your abilities that you don't think you could have a go at producing a series of recordings as diverse and interesting as The Beatles? I'll not expect any of us the be as popular, because it's all subjective and anyway the importance of popular music is a fraction of what it used to be in the 60s.
[/quote]

Nice try. I'm not sure what your delusion has to do with me or what the Beatles greatness has to do with your delusion of my abilities. I will agree that given the opportunity there are a lot of people who could produce good music and who could be popular. (And deserve to be). But to suggest you could duplicate what the Beatles did if you had the same chance is like saying you could be as smart as Stephan Hawkings if you only had a better math teacher. It's so nuts you negate any valid point you may have had.

Edited February 11, 2013 by Lowender

[Skol303]

[quote name='lowdowner' timestamp='1360607998' post='1973317']At least it hasn't (yet) descended into comparisons with Hitler or the Nazis - that's the fate of most controversial internet threads that outlive their natural length [/quote]

^ [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin%27s_law"]Godwin's Law[/url]

I once got booed by McCartney fans at the Glastonbury festival for drunkenly shouting "Frog Song" pretty much continually during the first few tracks of his live set. He wrote it. I just thought he should abide by it

In all seriousness though, The Beatles do pretty much nada for me. Not that there's any dislike for them from my corner. None at all. They were a staple favourite among many people when I was a teenager, and for precisely that reason I made a conscious effort to buck the trend and ignore them - I mean, that's what teenagers do, right? I like nearly everything I hear by them but they just don't stir my musical loins, put it that way.

I'll say one thing though, I absolutely [i]love[/i] Ringo's drumming on St Pepper's ([url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VUImpeQG66U"]the reprise version[/url]). A really funky breakbeat and way ahead of its time IMO.

[MrTaff]

No idea if this has been posted, too much fighting, but this looks interesting http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b01qnrb8

[BetaFunk]

[quote name='MrTaff' timestamp='1360623805' post='1973754']
No idea if this has been posted, too much fighting, but this looks interesting [url="http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b01qnrb8"]http://www.bbc.co.uk...rammes/b01qnrb8[/url]
[/quote]
Head, wall, head, wall, head, wall...........................

[flyfisher]

[quote name='Skol303' timestamp='1360620011' post='1973652']
In all seriousness though, The Beatles do pretty much nada for me. Not that there's any dislike for them from my corner. None at all. They were a staple favourite among many people when I was a teenager, and for precisely that reason I made a conscious effort to buck the trend and ignore them - I mean, that's what teenagers do, right?
[/quote]

Not just teenagers, it seems.

[steve-soar]

[quote name='Marvin' timestamp='1360606835' post='1973270']
Then do it. You've got no one to rely on you, partner, children. You could have chosen to do anything you want, like the members of the Beatles did. They were in their late teens when they went to Germany to cut their teeth, most of us could have taken similar choices at the same age. None of them had privileged backgrounds, they made a choice and worked to get where they did. If they had all day to write songs that's because they put in the ground work. Many other bands have had freedom and resources to do what they want after their initial success and haven't had the influence the Beatles did and others failed completely. Resources didn't make them what they became.

The what might have beens, what could be, the what ifs are all irrelevant, their achievements are a matter of record. I'm not even a big Beatles fan but acknowledge the level of influence they had on music and other musicians. Could others have done it? No one has, despite their best efforts.
[/quote]Yes

[EssentialTension]

[quote name='Skol303' timestamp='1360620011' post='1973652']
... They were a staple favourite among many people when I was a teenager, and for precisely that reason I made a conscious effort to buck the trend and ignore them - I mean, that's what teenagers do, right?
[/quote]
What is it that you're saying teenagers do or did? Did they have the Beatles as a staple favourite? Or did they buck the trend? Or was it a mixture of the two?

[Big_Stu]

[quote name='steve-soar' timestamp='1360625822' post='1973791']
Yes[/quote]

..........

[Skol303]

[quote name='EssentialTension' timestamp='1360626688' post='1973806']What is it that you're saying teenagers do or did? Did they have the Beatles as a staple favourite? Or did they buck the trend? Or was it a mixture of the two?[/quote]

Yeah, that kinda makes my head hurt too. But what I'm trying to say is that when I was a teenager, lots of other teenagers listened to The Beatles and I didn't, because everyone else did, despite being a teenager myself and being exposed to the music of my peers, and so I decided to the buck the trend because my peers' taste in music (aside from The Beatles) largely sucked, so I thought to myself "what they hell do they know anyway?" and went and did something less boring instead, which by and large involved bands other than The Beatles, not that they're boring or anything.

Capiche?

Edited February 12, 2013 by Skol303

[flyfisher]

Yep, there have always been a group of people who will dislike something simply because it is popular, despite its merits. As you rightly pointed out, teenagers are renowned for such forms of rebelliousness, though most grow out of it.

[Wil]

Anyone read Revolution in the Head? Very good read, some fascinating insights into each of their songs with some good trivia about the writing/recording process. He goes off on one a bit about the drugs but besides that it's great.

The Beatles split up at least 15 years before I was born but they have definitely loomed large in my life, even if I've only really looked deeply into their back catalogue in the last couple of years. They were not perfect but they were damned impressive. More importantly their songs really do move me, they simply knew their onions when it came to writing good tunes.

Edited February 12, 2013 by Wil

[Perennial]

I like the Beatles. i don't listen to them to hear.musicianship I'm just interested in the good melodies and ideas. They display a lot of inventiveness, talent and simply good music, what else do we need?

[EssentialTension]

[quote name='Wil' timestamp='1360630577' post='1973861']
Revolution in the Head? ...
[/quote]
That's an excellent book.

[BILL POSTERS]

[quote name='Skol303' timestamp='1360628540' post='1973837']
Yeah, that kinda makes my head hurt too. But what I'm trying to say is that when I was a teenager, lots of other teenagers listened to The Beatles and I didn't, because everyone else did, despite being a teenager myself and being exposed to the music of my peers, and so I decided to the buck the trend because my peers' taste in music (aside from The Beatles) largely sucked, so I thought to myself "what they hell do they know anyway?" and went and did something less boring instead, which by and large involved bands other than The Beatles, not that they're boring or anything.

Capiche?
[/quote]

This.

Pretty much how remember it. Just got sick of hearing about them, and of their supposedly witty answers when interviewed on TV - which seemed like every day. and couldnt stand, and still cant, McCartneys cringeworthy twee little ditties like oobla dee.

Didnt dislike it all, but what I didnt like, I seriously didnt like.

[Dave Vader]

[quote name='flyfisher' timestamp='1360602954' post='1973164']
Some probably would, but that's fan-dom for you and it happens with all sorts of things from people queueing up to see the Mona Lisa to camping outside an Apple store to buy the latest iPhone. It's hardly a phenomenon unique to The Beatles, though it is more apparent because there are so may people who like them. THAT'S the point.
[/quote]

Except that when you queue to see the Mona Lisa, you get to see the Mona Lisa, a genuine work of genius and a proper famous work of art. When you queue up to get the latest iPhone, you get the latest iPhone.

When you go to see where Paul McCartney lived 50 years ago you get to see a very ordinary house exactly like a lot of other very ordinary houses. You do not get to see Paul McCartney. There appears to be no real merits to it. I can understand wanting to go to the Cavern or the Star Club and see where the Beatles cut their teeth, just. Or hanging around outside where Macca lives now to get a glimpse of him (and shout "Frog Chorus" thanks Skol). Just about....
But looking at an ordinary terraced house maketh no sense to me at all.

Btw. It really is shocking how protective some of us get over music we didn't write isn't it?

Also, I still like the Beatles, and accept that they were influential (don't think anyone here has denied their influence just the innovations.)
And BRX is right, go and listen to the Residents for some outstanding and incredibly varied work that only a few people like.

[flyfisher]

[quote name='Dave Vader' timestamp='1360662279' post='1974033']

When you go to see where Paul McCartney lived 50 years ago you get to see a very ordinary house exactly like a lot of other very ordinary houses. You do not get to see Paul McCartney. There appears to be no real merits to it. I can understand wanting to go to the Cavern or the Star Club and see where the Beatles cut their teeth, just. Or hanging around outside where Macca lives now to get a glimpse of him (and shout "Frog Chorus" thanks Skol). Just about....
But looking at an ordinary terraced house maketh no sense to me at all.
[/quote]

It may make no sense to you (nor me actually) but you can't deny that many people think differently and do go along. Just as they do to Abbey Road studios to see where they recorded. Other people hunt down 'blue plaques' marking where their particular heroes lived. It takes all sorts.

Just because you don't understand something doesn't mean it doesn't have merit for loads of other people. And if it has merit for billions of people then, by definition, it is influential - whether you like it or not.

[Bilbo]

I don't think I have ever gone on a pilgrimage to see anything, I have only seen stuff by being there anyway. Kind of 'oooh look! York Minster Cathedral' when I was in York for a conference. Would I travel anywhere to see something like Paul Chambers' bass? Well, I haven't to date so I guess not. Cult of Personality stuff has always made me uncomfortable ( I know why. I was at a gig when I was 17ish and saw people getting autographs off the guitar player. I got one and immediately felt like a dick so never did it again. I have never even sought to speak to an artist since)

PS I went to a wedding in Abbey Road about 4 years ago with 2 of my 3 brothers. We didn't even register the zebra crossing let alone seek out the studio

[Big_Stu]

Hmm, lots of musicians getting their knickers in a twist because other musicians won't agree with them about their favourite music from 40-50 years ago, then repeating their dogma over & over even though many replies didn't even go there?
Not healthy.

Ha! Even as I type a song comes on the radio that, even though I have about half a dozen Beatles recordings 5 x CD, 1 x vinyl, this one song does more for me than any Beatles song - at all!
That's not to say Billy Gibbsons is a better player, or Dusty better than Macca - but the song has got "it" - for me, YMMV etc etc.

[JellyKnees]

[quote name='Dave Vader' timestamp='1360662279' post='1974033']
Except that when you queue to see the Mona Lisa, you get to see the Mona Lisa, a genuine work of genius and a proper famous work of art. When you queue up to get the latest iPhone, you get the latest iPhone.

When you go to see where Paul McCartney lived 50 years ago you get to see a very ordinary house exactly like a lot of other very ordinary houses. You do not get to see Paul McCartney. There appears to be no real merits to it. I can understand wanting to go to the Cavern or the Star Club and see where the Beatles cut their teeth, just. Or hanging around outside where Macca lives now to get a glimpse of him (and shout "Frog Chorus" thanks Skol). Just about....
But looking at an ordinary terraced house maketh no sense to me at all.

[/quote]

Indeed. And you'll be lucky if you want to see the Cavern Club, seing as how they knocked it down in the 70's. Personally, I can't even understand wanting to do that though. I find that level of obsessive fandom extremely unhealthy to be honest. I'm a huge Zappa fan for example but I have absolutely no desire to go and stand ouside his house or any other location that was associated with him. It's his music that does it for me, the rest is just BS.

[flyfisher]

It's not people's individual opinions of The Beatles that is really the issue here, it's the denial of their global influence when it's there for all to see.

It's like hating football because it's a daft game played by over-paid prima donna half-wits (which seems a fair summary to me) and then denying the national influence of the game that millions of people watch and enjoy each week ( which would be plain stupid wheat he evidence is clear).

That's all.

YMM indeed V . . . . so let's all acknowledge that it does - sometimes for billions of people.

Let's face it, Simon Cowell is also a hugely influential music figure for that very reason.

[flyfisher]

[quote name='Bilbo' timestamp='1360663060' post='1974050']
I don't think I have ever gone on a pilgrimage to see anything, I have only seen stuff by being there anyway. Kind of 'oooh look! York Minster Cathedral' when I was in York for a conference. Would I travel anywhere to see something like Paul Chambers' bass? Well, I haven't to date so I guess not. Cult of Personality stuff has always made me uncomfortable . . . .
[/quote]

Says the man who went to the trouble of writing a whole book about one of his musical heroes

[EssentialTension]

It seems to me to be the regular claim of 'I don't like the Beatles and so they can't possibly have been of any influence or importance' that has its knickers in a twist.

[PaulWarning]

[quote name='JTUK' timestamp='1360590889' post='1972835']
What always struck me about the Beatles was the truly remarkable output of great pop songs by ..mostly.. Lennon and Mcartney..and the mostly drivel that those two put out
as solo artists.





[/quote]
I was watching a programme about the Beatles the other night and a young Macca said "we might not be able to write songs when we're 40" how did he know that! mind you Lennon had a good excuse.

Edited February 12, 2013 by PaulWarning

[flyfisher]

On the same theme, I wonder if Ringo has ever regretted not setting a string of hair dressing salons? : lol:

[JellyKnees]

[quote name='flyfisher' timestamp='1360664451' post='1974079']
It's not people's individual opinions of The Beatles that is really the issue here, it's the denial of their global influence when it's there for all to see.

It's like hating football because it's a daft game played by over-paid prima donna half-wits (which seems a fair summary to me) and then denying the national influence of the game that millions of people watch and enjoy each week ( which would be plain stupid wheat he evidence is clear).

That's all.

YMM indeed V . . . . so let's all acknowledge that it does - sometimes for billions of people.

Let's face it, Simon Cowell is also a hugely influential music figure for that very reason.
[/quote]

I don't think anyone is denying the undoubted influence of the Beatles (I'm certainly not), rather than simply questioning whether the almost divine reverence in which they are held is justified. You asked me a question about how I would define validity, well I would define it as doing something on the basis of it having real worth or value, and I don't see any worth whatsoever in going and standing outside the house where a famous musician that I particularly like lived once upon a time, in fact I think it's pretty creepy to be honest. Similarly, I wouldn't deny that the iPhone is hugely popular, however I would assert that a significant proportion of people buy it not because of the features it offers, its functionality or some other meaningful reason, but simply because it is a fashionable thing to own. Just because loads of people do something, doesn't mean we shouldn't question or criticise their motivations. And of course, just because something is popular, neither should we automatically jump to criticise it.