"The Beatles!"

[Fat Rich]

This'll annoy some of you! Some interesting analysis of their music though:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kKK0bCSIR4E

[Marvin]

[quote name='Fat Rich' timestamp='1360846778' post='1977272']
This'll annoy some of you! Some interesting analysis of their music though:

[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kKK0bCSIR4E[/media]
[/quote]

Pah! What does Howard Goodall know? He's only studied music and got a CBE for services to music education. He's not qualified to comment on this subject.

[Lowender]

[quote name='Fat Rich' timestamp='1360846778' post='1977272']
This'll annoy some of you! Some interesting analysis of their music though:

[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kKK0bCSIR4E[/media]
[/quote]


No amount of logic, evidence, expertise, facts, credentials or experienced insight can outweigh hipster indignance.

[BetaFunk]

[quote name='Marvin' timestamp='1360850814' post='1977361']
Pah! What does Howard Goodall know? He's only studied music and got a CBE for services to music education. He's not qualified to comment on this subject.
[/quote]
So there was electronic music before The Beatles. I'm shocked and not a little horrified. I'm sure i read somewhere that the Fab Four invented music.

[BetaFunk]

Are we allowed to bump a topic just to get it to 23 pages? Well, here goes then.

[Big_Stu]

[quote name='SteveK' timestamp='1360840843' post='1977161']
..........many of those that deny The Beatles level of influence are possibly those very same people that will sigh whenever Macca's on the box, saying, "Oh, look at that smug, arrogant p**ck... and look, Jeez, he's doing that f***in' peace sign again... twat!"

I think it's likely that Sir Paul's more recent offerings, appearances, TV broadcasts and inevitable accompanying interviews, has effected their appreciation, of anything that [i]'that smug, arrogant p**ck[/i]' may have ever done. Even in this thread there has been the odd post started along the lines of, [i]I can't stand Paul McCartney...[/i], and then the poster has gone on to state why he thinks The Beatles are overrated.
I wonder if Sir Macca had died in a bizarre boating accident 20 or 30 years ago if the tone of this thread may have been a little different. [/quote]

I've still to see any posts on here [i]denying[/i] his subsequent influence; personally I prefer to hear it from those that he's supposedly influenced but I don't deny it's there en masse.
One thing that I did find distasteful was the slagging of him for his appearance in the Olympic & Jubilee bashes. if he hadn't been there I think it would been more baffling, though it was mostly on trendy comedy shows where most of the slagging took place; Jo Brand on QI (IIRC) was one.

[Myke]

[quote name='Big_Stu' timestamp='1360852468' post='1977409']

One thing that I did find distasteful was the slagging of him for his appearance in the Olympic & Jubilee bashes.
[/quote]

I know this is going against your post.. but I did think his voice was a bit rough then, only criticism I had of it.

[51m0n]

[quote name='Fat Rich' timestamp='1360846778' post='1977272']
This'll annoy some of you! Some interesting analysis of their music though:

[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kKK0bCSIR4E[/media]
[/quote]

Truly fascinating program, Howard knows his beans, I think it wasnt only the Beatles though, there were other bands pushing things along (The Beach Boys for one).

Still best argument I've seen in the entire thread that the Beatles maybe offered more musically than I may have given them credit for. Fair play!

[Marvin]

[quote name='BetaFunk' timestamp='1360852222' post='1977392']
So there was electronic music before The Beatles. I'm shocked and not a little horrified. I'm sure i read somewhere that the Fab Four invented music.
[/quote]

You've quoted me, but you'll have to explain what your post means as it makes no sense to me.

[BetaFunk]

[quote name='51m0n' timestamp='1360853224' post='1977435']
Truly fascinating program, Howard knows his beans, I think it wasnt only the Beatles though, there were other bands pushing things along (The Beach Boys for one).
[/quote]
I think that The Fab Four also invented surfing and surf music. I remember in about 1960 seeing Ringo walking alongside the Mersey with a surf board. Although it could have been an ironing board as i only had my reading glasses on. (apologies to 'Happy Days' for pinching this gag!)

[BetaFunk]

[quote name='Marvin' timestamp='1360853354' post='1977441']
You've quoted me, but you'll have to explain what your post means as it makes no sense to me.
[/quote]
Sorry Marvin, i was just referring to the bit about electronic music in the Howard Goodall clip rather that what you said. Apologies for any confusion.

[Lowender]

Everyone who understands music wilh any depth and education also understands that the introduction to "If I Fell" is an masterful musical impossibility . There's no way that movement cannot come off as clumsy, yet Lennon somehow makes it a brilliant melody.

Anyone who thinks they can do that if they just had a good recording studio is hopelessly oblivious. But...carry on.

Edited February 14, 2013 by Lowender

[PaulWarning]

[quote name='Myke' timestamp='1360852943' post='1977425']
I know this is going against your post.. but I did think his voice was a bit rough then, only criticism I had of it.
[/quote]
last few times I've seen Macca on the tele his voice has sounded well dodgy, think its time he packed the live work in, same for Elton John and Sir Cliff, Tom Jones and Jagger still sound ok though and even Ray Davies just about pulled off the Olympics ceremony.

[Myke]

[quote name='PaulWarning' timestamp='1360854568' post='1977464']
last few times I've seen Macca on the tele his voice has sounded well dodgy, think its time he packed the live work in, same for Elton John and Sir Cliff, Tom Jones and Jagger still sound ok though and even Ray Davies just about pulled off the Olympics ceremony.
[/quote]

I'm glad I'm not the only one to think this

[BetaFunk]

[quote name='Myke' timestamp='1360854618' post='1977466']
I'm glad I'm not the only one to think this
[/quote]
I think it's alright as long you [u]only[/u] think it

[SteveK]

[quote name='Big_Stu' timestamp='1360852468' post='1977409']
I've still to see any posts on here [b][i]denying[/i][/b] his subsequent influence; personally I prefer to hear it from those that he's supposedly influenced but I don't deny it's there en masse.
One thing that I did find distasteful was the slagging of him for his appearance in the Olympic & Jubilee bashes. if he hadn't been there I think it would been more baffling, though it was mostly on trendy comedy shows where most of the slagging took place; Jo Brand on QI (IIRC) was one.
[/quote]No, nobody has [b]denied[/b] their influence (as far as I've read), but certainly their [b]level[/b] of influence (as worded in my post) has been called in to question.
But maybe instead of the words 'those that deny their level of influence' I should have used the words: [i]those that claim The Beatles are overrated[/i].

[SteveK]

[quote name='Lowender' timestamp='1360854222' post='1977461']
Everyone who understands music wilh any depth and education also understands that the introduction to "If I Fell" is an masterful musical impossibility . There's no way that movement cannot come off as clumsy, yet Lennon somehow makes it a brilliant melody.

Anyone who thinks they can do that if they just had a good recording studio is hopelessly oblivious. But...carry on.
[/quote]Lowender, I was going to make post about that very song. Chordaly, the intro to If I Fell is quite extraordinary: Ebm / D / Db / Bbm / Ebm / D / Em / A
But as with many of The Beatles songs, they make the oddest chord changes sound perfectly natural.

BTW Fat Rich, nice find with the documentary. I hadn't seen it before.

Edited February 14, 2013 by SteveK

[JellyKnees]

Much as I would like to see this thread die, I'll post this as it seems rather pertinent. This is the kind of commercial Beatles related tat that drives me nuts. Liverpool was much better without it as far as I'm concerned.

[url="http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/liverpool-news/local-news//tm_headline=hard-day-s-night-hotel-fire-sees-hotel-evacuated-gallery%26method=full%26objectid=32810649%26siteid=100252-name_page.html"]http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/liverpool-news/local-news//tm_headline=hard-day-s-night-hotel-fire-sees-hotel-evacuated-gallery%26method=full%26objectid=32810649%26siteid=100252-name_page.html[/url]

[Big_Stu]

[quote name='JellyKnees' timestamp='1360857650' post='1977526']
Much as I would like to see this thread die, I'll post this as it seems rather pertinent. This is the kind of commercial Beatles related tat that drives me nuts. Liverpool was much better without it as far as I'm concerned.

[url="http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/liverpool-news/local-news//tm_headline=hard-day-s-night-hotel-fire-sees-hotel-evacuated-gallery%26method=full%26objectid=32810649%26siteid=100252-name_page.html"]http://www.liverpool...-name_page.html[/url]
[/quote]

True; but the pun appeal for the firemen must have been fantastic - I hope they kept the fire-engine clean, for eg.

[Big_Stu]

[quote name='SteveK' timestamp='1360855316' post='1977487']
I should have used the words: [i]those that claim The Beatles (music is)* overrated[/i].[/quote]
*my edit.

Better, happy now - carry on.

Though no-one's taken me up on what other tracks I should find "stand out" on the albums of theirs that I have .

[Lowender]

[quote name='Big_Stu' timestamp='1360858885' post='1977551']
*my edit.

Better, happy now - carry on.

Though no-one's taken me up on what other tracks I should find "stand out" on the albums of theirs that I have .
[/quote]

So funny that you like to call people trolls because their post count isn't high enough to your liking, yet you continue to ask provoking questions which you so obviously don't really want answered. If that isn't trolling of the worst kind I don't know what is.

We get it. You don't like them and you don't want to. It makes you "different." Asking for an explanation to change your mind is like asking someone explain what made Einstein so smart or to expect someone to stop believing in Allah and start worshiping Buddha. Ain't gonna happen. It's an exercise in futility.

Edited February 14, 2013 by Lowender

[Skol303]

Not that I'd dare to try putting a full stop at the end of this debate...

But reading between the lines, I think much of this discussion is rooted in the term 'overrated' as applied to The Beatles - when in fact what people seem to be talking about is The Beatles being 'over-popularised'.

I think most of us would agree that they were a hugely successful and influential band, and such success wouldn't have been sustained for so long without a genuine sense of authenticity and credibility to their music. What seems to rankle people (myself included, I must admit) is the way their success has been exploited to such a level that they have become ubiquitous - as a perpetual cash-cow for some; as a lazy cultural reference for others.

In short: too much of a good thing can become a pain in the ass. And personally speaking, while I respect The Beatles and their music, they're just too 'obvious' and 'everywhere' for me to get truly excited about them. They give me a sense of "That's been done; the t-shirt bought and soiled". And I just find it all a bit too retrospective for my tastes. But that's me.

That's not meant to be disrespectful to the band or their music. I feel the same way about other classic cultural references, such as the work of Shakespeare. It deserves to be revered. And it will continue to be revered. But sometimes, I just get bored of people banging on about it.

[Big_Stu]

[quote name='Lowender' timestamp='1360859438' post='1977560']
So funny that you like to call people trolls because their post count isn't high enough to your liking, yet you continue to ask provoking questions which you so obviously don't really want answered. If that isn't trolling of the worst kind I don't know what is.[/quote]

You really can't help yourself can you; you trolling waste of breathe?
Unlike you, with your massive count of abusive posts, not just against me, but you're racking up quiet a count of them, you only need to read back this thread to see that; I was trying to clarify a serious part of the thread.
I happen to have a massive music collection across all genres, apart from rap, I work in an associated area, quite often in the music industry itself.
You're obviously too dim to know a serious question when you read one, so again, as in the past, the basis of your point is wrong. It's either that or you're just out to cause trouble - based on the number of your posts being provocative - I suspect the latter.

Edited February 14, 2013 by Big_Stu

[SteveK]

[quote name='Big_Stu' timestamp='1360858885' post='1977551']
[b]*my edit.[/b]

Better, happy now - carry on.

Though no-one's taken me up on what other tracks I should find "stand out" on the albums of theirs that I have .
[/quote]Sorry, I took that as a given.

As far as suggesting tracks... too much like spoonfeeding. And one man's meat 'n all that.

Edited February 14, 2013 by SteveK

[Big_Stu]

[quote name='SteveK' timestamp='1360862063' post='1977599']Sorry, I took that as a given.[/quote]
I just didn't want anyone thinking I was referring to anything else related to them being over-rated. I'm feeling a sense of having to dot "I"s and crossing "t"s around.

[quote name='SteveK' timestamp='1360862063' post='1977599']As far as suggesting tracks... too much like spoonfeeding. And one man's meat 'n all that. [/quote]
Fair enough, I've often assumed that when YT vids are posted with "Listen to the bass on this", or "what about this guitar tone/effect/tuning" etc type posts are looking to point something out that others have maybe missed. Which I would always concede if someone showed me something I'd missed.
As I posted on another thread, a mate of mine a long time ago said about catching "Guitar legends" on TV ('91??). I'd never heard of Albert Collins at that point, but was so knocked out by his stuff that I soon bought many CDs and a couple of DVDs, he had a bit of negativity on these hallowed pages in years gone by too.