"The Beatles!"

[BetaFunk]

[quote name='lowdowner' timestamp='1360533069' post='1972020']
considering that this is a bass players site, I find this discussion almost surreal.

In the book 'bass masters - paul mccartney' by tony bacon and gareth morgan (a bit of a 'must read' the authors talk a lot about their influence. Particularly that they tended to listen to US bass players and music and imported those influences into the UK, often adding their own twist. Good examples would be Joe Mauldin (Buddy Holly) and Elvis's bass player Bill Black. Paul McCartney also listened a lot to James Jamerson - who Mccartney said was his hero. He would have the motown records sent over to listen to before they were released... The first time motown riffs were heard, were through the beatles music in the UK. To name just a few...
[/quote]
All British groups were influenced by US bass and guitar players. I would doubt if any of them had heard of James Jamerson at the time but were still influenced by him. I read some years ago about a British guitarist who said he was influenced by James Burton only he didn't know it was James Burton until some years later.

[EssentialTension]

[quote name='BetaFunk' timestamp='1360532679' post='1972012']
Absolutely. As someone who saw Beatlemania (and saw the Fab Four in the flesh) unfold upon the world i do admit that although i bought all the LPs i was never a real fan and at the time they were never thought of as they are now. They have become a group that you can't seem to criticise. You could have done this in the 60s and wouldn't have got into much of an argument about it. It would just have been your opinion. You'll soon be shouted down if you have the cheek to criticise nowadays. That's what i find amazing and how and what they have become.
[/quote]
The Beatles are constantly criticised, you're doing it yourself.

[EssentialTension]

[quote name='lowdowner' timestamp='1360533069' post='1972020']
considering that this is a bass players site, I find this discussion almost surreal.

In the book 'bass masters - paul mccartney' by tony bacon and gareth morgan (a bit of a 'must read' the authors talk a lot about their influence. Particularly that they tended to listen to US bass players and music and imported those influences into the UK, often adding their own twist. Good examples would be Joe Mauldin (Buddy Holly) and Elvis's bass player Bill Black. Paul McCartney also listened a lot to James Jamerson - who Mccartney said was his hero. He would have the motown records sent over to listen to before they were released... The first time motown riffs were heard, were through the beatles music in the UK. To name just a few...
[/quote]
What is the surreal part?

[BetaFunk]

[quote name='EssentialTension' timestamp='1360533748' post='1972042']
The Beatles are constantly criticised, you're doing it yourself.
[/quote]
Exactly the reaction i expected. Well done for not letting me down.

[Dash]

Alright folks... as someone who hasn't listened to much of the Beatles over the years, where should I start?

[BetaFunk]

[quote name='EssentialTension' timestamp='1360533805' post='1972045']
What is the surreal part?
[/quote]
We agree on something. Surreal?

[EssentialTension]

[quote name='BetaFunk' timestamp='1360536795' post='1972101']
Exactly the reaction i expected. Well done for not letting me down.
[/quote]
Well, it may be a let down for you, but it's not a reaction, it's a revelation of the inconsistency and the incoherence of your claims.

[BetaFunk]

[quote name='EssentialTension' timestamp='1360537917' post='1972129']
Well, it may be a let down for you, but it's not a reaction, it's a revelation of the inconsistency and the incoherence of your claims.
[/quote]
You didn't let me down That's the point. Try reading my post again and it may become it bit less incoherent.

[Wil]

[quote name='Dash' timestamp='1360537638' post='1972121']
Alright folks... as someone who hasn't listened to much of the Beatles over the years, where should I start?
[/quote]

I'd listen in album order but perhaps skip the early stuff - start at Rubber Soul, which is when they were really started perfecting their craft at making albums. Then perhaps Revolver, Sgt Peppers and Abbey Road. I'd leave the White album until later, I found it to be far less accessible (it's a double album with about a single album's worth of great tracks, IMO)

[Dash]

[quote name='Wil' timestamp='1360538847' post='1972157']
I'd listen in album order but perhaps skip the early stuff - start at Rubber Soul, which is when they were really started perfecting their craft at making albums. Then perhaps Revolver, Sgt Peppers and Abbey Road. I'd leave the White album until later, I found it to be far less accessible (it's a double album with about a single album's worth of great tracks, IMO)
[/quote]

Thanks Wil!

[BetaFunk]

[quote name='Wil' timestamp='1360538847' post='1972157']
I'd listen in album order but perhaps skip the early stuff - start at Rubber Soul, which is when they were really started perfecting their craft at making albums. Then perhaps Revolver, Sgt Peppers and Abbey Road. I'd leave the White album until later, I found it to be far less accessible (it's a double album with about a single album's worth of great tracks, IMO)
[/quote]
Skip the early stuff?

Be prepared for the wrath of The Basschat Beatles Preservation Society to descend upon thee!!!!!!!!!!!

Edited February 10, 2013 by BetaFunk

[Wil]

[quote name='BetaFunk' timestamp='1360539483' post='1972171']
Skip the early stuff?

Be prepared for the wrath of The Basschat Beatles Preservation Society to descend upon thee!!!!!!!!!!!
[/quote]

As a starter, at least There's a lot to get through!

[Hobbayne]

I would give Beatles For Sale a miss, apart from a couple of good numbers, [ No Reply, 8 days a week] its mainly old rock n roll covers and dirges

[Bloodaxe]

[quote name='Dash' timestamp='1360537638' post='1972121']
Alright folks... as someone who hasn't listened to much of the Beatles over the years, where should I start?
[/quote]

I'd nominate the 'Red' & 'Blue' albums. Both compilations released in the early 70s and span 1962-66 (Red) & 67-70 (Blue). From there - if they float your boat - it's simple enough to seek out individual albums.

From my generalised POV, they were the first successful 'homegrown' act that had their own voice. When they started, just about everybody was trying to be American - Billy Fury & Cliff are two well-known Elvis impersonators. 'Pop' was largely ruled by Tin Pan Alley. Once the Beatles got over their 'imitation' phase they inspired a lot of people to kick the door open & just... be themselves. All of a sudden it was OK to write your own stuff & sing in a regional accent; the Stones did the same a little later.

Hendix did the same for guitar. Before him there wasn't much going on besides Bery Weedon's 'Play In A Day' and Hank Marvin:— Clapton, Townshend & Green were getting there, but Hendrix blew the bloody door off.

P.

[lowdowner]

[quote name='BetaFunk' timestamp='1360533701' post='1972040']
All British groups were influenced by US bass and guitar players. I would doubt if any of them had heard of James Jamerson at the time but were still influenced by him. I read some years ago about a British guitarist who said he was influenced by James Burton only he didn't know it was James Burton until some years later.
[/quote]

No - the point is that Paul *specifically* asked for these records and knew who james jamerson was - he knew him by name and followed his work.There is little evidence that other bands did this kind of research. Paul wasn't just a 'listen along' player just because everyone else did: part of his 8-10 hours a day in the studio was research. He would usually be the first to arrive to a recording session and the last to leave. His influenced and influential bass lines are then copied and strewn across other bands' work - sometimes almost unchanged. The roll call of famous musicians (not just bass players) is huge. He had decided to take his craft seriously, and as a result a lot of his work was cutting edge. Good examples are tracks like 'Rain' where his neckwork (quite high and chordal) was very new for the time. His more 'traditional' lines were also pretty radical - like 'Taxman' which seems really simple, but playing it shows some very technical shifts just because of the speed.

[lowdowner]

[quote name='Bloodaxe' timestamp='1360557482' post='1972269']
I'd nominate the 'Red' & 'Blue' albums. Both compilations released in the early 70s and span 1962-66 (Red) & 67-70 (Blue). From there - if they float your boat - it's simple enough to seek out individual albums.
[/quote]

I'd second this - good compilations, and was a staple part of my growing up thanks to my parents record collection.

[niceguyhomer]

[quote name='SteveK' timestamp='1360500670' post='1971236']
I guess that would be the kind of argument that academics might have to argue [i]black is white[/i] or that[i] water is not wet[/i].
First of all, of course we would have to define 'superstars' and 'overrated' - that would occupy at least 12 pages on BC.

Just a little factoid for the younger BCers regarding the Fabs: In 1964 The Beatles held the top 5 positions in the Billbord 100 chart, [b]and[/b] they had 7 other records in that same chart.
[/quote]

Good factoid SteveK. I'll never understand how anyone can use the word 'overrated' when talking about the Beatles or dismiss their huge influence on music. I've said this before in previous Beatles discussions so forgive my repeating this but you had to be there in the 60s to really appreciate the effect they had and not just on music - but on British culture, it was enormous. I lived right opposite Paul from 1959 on and grew up in a road that was bursting at the seams every single day with onlookers and screaming girls who made a lot of noise, caused havoc and nicked things out of his garden. That was 50 years ago - my Mum still lives there with my brother and still they're plagued every single day by coachloads of people who come from all over the world to stand outside and stare at the house where Paul used to live.

They don't scream any more, they don't nick things out of his garden, they just stand there quietly taking photos of the house where someone famous lived half a century ago.

Doesn't that speak volumes?

[Judo Chop]

[quote name='lowdowner' timestamp='1360568200' post='1972294']


No - the point is that Paul *specifically* asked for these records and knew who james jamerson was - he knew him by name and followed his work.There is little evidence that other bands did this kind of research. Paul wasn't just a 'listen along' player just because everyone else did: part of his 8-10 hours a day in the studio was research. He would usually be the first to arrive to a recording session and the last to leave. His influenced and influential bass lines are then copied and strewn across other bands' work - sometimes almost unchanged. The roll call of famous musicians (not just bass players) is huge. He had decided to take his craft seriously, and as a result a lot of his work was cutting edge. Good examples are tracks like 'Rain' where his neckwork (quite high and chordal) was very new for the time. His more 'traditional' lines were also pretty radical - like 'Taxman' which seems really simple, but playing it shows some very technical shifts just because of the speed.
[/quote]

I think that 'Rain' and 'Taxman' have quite similar basslines, he seemed to like that little shape on the fretboard, even 'Come Together' can be played using the same position and uses the same notes

[Leonard Smalls]

[quote name='BetaFunk' timestamp='1360532679' post='1972012']
You'll soon be shouted down if you have the cheek to criticise nowadays. That's what i find amazing and how and what they have become.
[/quote]

Aye!
Music is, after all, completely subjective.
Personally I can't see how anyone wouldn't like Parliament, or Sceaming Headless Torsos. Apart from the fact I know that music is subjective!
I find myself arguing against the relative merits of the Beatles simply because of the hysterical reaction.

[niceguyhomer]

[quote name='Leonard Smalls' timestamp='1360570736' post='1972309']
I find myself arguing against the relative merits of the Beatles simply because of the hysterical reaction.
[/quote]

Really? Have you nothing better to do?

Who's being hysterical?

[EssentialTension]

[quote name='niceguyhomer' timestamp='1360575120' post='1972375']
Who's being hysterical?
[/quote]
Probably that will be the Screaming Headless Torsos.

[risingson]

[quote name='BetaFunk' timestamp='1360539483' post='1972171']
Be prepared for the wrath of The Basschat Beatles Preservation Society to descend upon thee!!!!!!!!!!!
[/quote]

You're labouring the point now I feel, I appreciate you've gotten roundly slapped here by a number of people that you've been unable to counter but contrary to what you feel this isn't a site fanatical about any given subject, most people are just too laid back. Let it go.

[Big_Stu]

[quote name='Leonard Smalls' timestamp='1360570736' post='1972309']
Aye!
Music is, after all, completely subjective.
Personally I can't see how anyone wouldn't like Parliament, or Sceaming Headless Torsos. Apart from the fact I know that music is subjective!
I find myself arguing against the relative merits of the Beatles simply because of the hysterical reaction.
[/quote]

Point of order Mr Chairman......
How does a headless torso scream?

[Dad3353]

[quote name='Big_Stu' timestamp='1360576238' post='1972405']
Point of order Mr Chairman......
How does a headless torso scream?
[/quote]

Gurgle..! Gurgle..!

[Jazzneck]

To answer your question Mr. Lennon, you did pass the audition.