NoirBass Posted February 10, 2013 Share Posted February 10, 2013 (edited) I'm interested in creating a fliptop on a budget. Should I go for a low wattage valve head and separate 15" cab or use amp modelling with a VT bass or similar? Key factor is to make is sound and perform as close to the original as possible without the price tag. Your thoughts and opinions please. Edited February 10, 2013 by NoirBass Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jazzneck Posted February 10, 2013 Share Posted February 10, 2013 Wow - that's a tricky one. I have a B15N (early 1970s) and I haven't found anything yet that sounds like it. You also have to consider which year of B15N you want it to sound like as there were numerous types of speaker cabinets, speakers, circuits etc. used over the years - not a bad one amongst them (exept the tranny amps) and remember they were all low wattage (30-50W) valve amps. For simplicity, if you are in the UK, I would look for a Linear Conchord head and a closed back Thiele cabinet but make sure everything fits first. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoirBass Posted February 10, 2013 Author Share Posted February 10, 2013 (edited) Cheers for the reply. The Linear Conchord and Thiele are brands I'd not come across. To answer your question the only B15N I've played through was mid sixties and stock as far as I know. It sounded amazing, thats what I'd like to try to get close to. I should add that I own a 70's V4B and from what I've read this has many similarities to the B15N. I may just need to pair that with a decent 15 cab to get what I'm after? Also, i should have said that it doesn't need to fit together like a B15N (i.e. flip top) happy to use separate head and cab. Your help as ever is greatly appreciated. Edited February 10, 2013 by NoirBass Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jazzneck Posted February 10, 2013 Share Posted February 10, 2013 (edited) Aha - I also have a 1990s US V4BH which I use with a 4x10HLF Classic cab and although this is a great combination for bigger gigs it doesn't sound the same as the B15N. Thiele is the description for a tuned ported cabinet: see [url="http://www.eminence.com/2011/06/sealed-vs-ported-enclosures/"]http://www.eminence....ted-enclosures/[/url] and Google "Thiele bass cabinet" Our colonial cousins on Talkbass are worth a general read (I warn you in advance there are [u]loads[/u] of pages in 10 sections to wade through; some dross in there as well) to get a feel for why these Ampegs are so different and good - the cabinet design, sealing etc. is critical to the sound. It is worth a read to get a feel for what these amps are about and what the "magic" is - it's not easy but they are great amps/cabs. see: [url="http://www.talkbass.com/forum/f15/official-ampeg-portaflex-club-437266/"]http://www.talkbass....ex-club-437266/[/url] Edited February 10, 2013 by Jazzneck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RandomBass Posted February 10, 2013 Share Posted February 10, 2013 You know, I have an Ashdown LB30 and a Barefaced Compact, and have sometimes thought that it might be a modern day B15 type thing. However, I have just realised I have never actually heard a B15 in the flesh. Time for a bit of Youtube trawling methinks... Any pointers to particular artists or songs that really typify the sound? Cheers Geoff Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ahpook Posted February 10, 2013 Share Posted February 10, 2013 (edited) if you go down the route of a pedal aping the portaflex preamp, you could try an 'albert flipster' from [url="http://www.1a-shops.eu/cgi-bin/shopserver/shops/s008815/index.cgi?aktion=um&ps=131963&subid=131963"]diy stompbox[/url]. i got one recently and it's a great little preamp - i can't vouch for how true it is to a portaflex, but you can get some very motownesque sounds from it, with very nice wooly comprerssion. cheaper than a VT edit: there's some more info on the circuit [url="http://www.runoffgroove.com/flipster.html"]here[/url] Edited February 10, 2013 by ahpook Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
discreet Posted February 10, 2013 Share Posted February 10, 2013 (edited) I've found the B3 amp and cab sims to be very good. [size=4]And it does quite a few other things, too.[/size] [size=4]Edit: I was drawn in by talk of 80s trannies, but it wasn't what I thought.[/size] Edited February 10, 2013 by discreet Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Foxen Posted February 10, 2013 Share Posted February 10, 2013 [quote name='headofire' timestamp='1360523514' post='1971762'] You could look out for a b15t, that's the 80's tranny ones they don't go for much and you'll get a decent 15. I actually like them for little gigs but they aren't that loud. that would be good with your head. Nothing like the valve ones tho. If you want to build a flip top...You could get pretty close if you look out for a burman power pack and use a sansamp vt bass pedal. The power packs are 70s 100 watt slaves, very good quality amps and they look similar inside. I used to use one like that but with a boogie V Twin. [/quote] Pretty brutally massive slave amp for the purpose, plenty smaller that will do the job. The Power Pak is so hifi I'm not even sure it will have tone advantages over VT into a solid state power amp at lowish volumes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrismuzz Posted February 10, 2013 Share Posted February 10, 2013 I would go VT Bass, or Zoom B3. Not sure how close they will get to the real thing, but I'll bet they get as close or closer than anything else out there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoirBass Posted February 10, 2013 Author Share Posted February 10, 2013 Cheers people, many options to explore there. Exactly what I was after. I will do some reasearch and report back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
6v6 Posted February 11, 2013 Share Posted February 11, 2013 If you're really interested in making a replica (rather than something which just sounds similar), you may be interested in fliptops.net: http://www.fliptops.net/catalog/categories Most of the parts required to build a replica cabinet and/or head seem to be fairly easily available - fliptops will actually sell you a ready made cabinet, but I'm guessing the shipping to the UK would be expensive. If you have the skills or know someone who does, then another option would be to buy a ~50w tube/valve amp and modify it to a B15 circuit using one of the widely available schematics, I've been considering doing this as an experiment on my (already much modified) Traynor YBA1. (** disclaimer **, working on valve amps is potentially lethal due to the high voltages involved! ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thumperbob 2002 Posted February 11, 2013 Share Posted February 11, 2013 Line 6 Basspod plus many hours of programming and its there. Useless standard tones, but with 7-10 hours of getting to know it- programming- there are loads of great valve tones. In isolation you will know the difference between this and B15N, SVT, Fender Bassman etc- though in the mix, whether live or recording into a desk you will not. Just opened a can of worms Methinks... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoirBass Posted February 11, 2013 Author Share Posted February 11, 2013 (edited) Thanks for the info on Thiele Jazzneck, I have learnt a great deal from that. Geoff, the LB30 and Barefaced compact is more like I was thinking, but it seems the power stage valves are different from the B15. Would still like some similar options with valve amps and cabs like this to consider too. Ahpook, The Flipster looks cool, would be interested to hear one. Discreet and Chrismuzz, I have spent some hours with my B3 and am getting some fantastic results. I know the purists will be upset but it can sound great. 6V6, I would love to get a clone from Fliptops, but I expect it'd actually be cheaper to get an original B15N Thumperbob, I have also spent a good few hours on the Bass POD and X3 and can never get quite what I'm after. Have you any .l6t files you could send me of your efforts? Would be very interested to hear how you got on. I also fired up the V4B again today and it sounds great, but not like a B15. Has anyone got the Bass POD, Zoom B3 and a VT bass that could offer a comparison on their respective B15ishness? Edited February 11, 2013 by NoirBass Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ahpook Posted February 11, 2013 Share Posted February 11, 2013 [quote name='NoirBass' timestamp='1360610233' post='1973375'] Ahpook, The Flipster looks cool, would be interested to hear one. [/quote] there's a couple of samples [url="http://www.olcircuits.com/olc_flipster.html"]here[/url] from the same basic circuit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr M Posted February 12, 2013 Share Posted February 12, 2013 [quote name='NoirBass' timestamp='1360610233' post='1973375'] Discreet and Chrismuzz, I have spent some hours with my B3 and am getting some fantastic results. I know the purists will be upset but it can sound great. [/quote] If the B3's getting you close to the sound you want, have you considered running that into a power-amp and a decent cab? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thumperbob 2002 Posted February 12, 2013 Share Posted February 12, 2013 [quote name='NoirBass' timestamp='1360610233' post='1973375'] Thanks for the info on Thiele Jazzneck, I have learnt a great deal from that. Geoff, the LB30 and Barefaced compact is more like I was thinking, but it seems the power stage valves are different from the B15. Would still like some similar options with valve amps and cabs like this to consider too. Ahpook, The Flipster looks cool, would be interested to hear one. Discreet and Chrismuzz, I have spent some hours with my B3 and am getting some fantastic results. I know the purists will be upset but it can sound great. 6V6, I would love to get a clone from Fliptops, but I expect it'd actually be cheaper to get an original B15N Thumperbob, I have also spent a good few hours on the Bass POD and X3 and can never get quite what I'm after. Have you any .l6t files you could send me of your efforts? Would be very interested to hear how you got on. I also fired up the V4B again today and it sounds great, but not like a B15. Has anyone got the Bass POD, Zoom B3 and a VT bass that could offer a comparison on their respective B15ishness? [/quote] Wouldnt even know how to do this ( l6T files )- I have a VT Bass though and the Basspod murders it in every way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoirBass Posted February 12, 2013 Author Share Posted February 12, 2013 (edited) [quote name='Dr M' timestamp='1360675884' post='1974342'] If the B3's getting you close to the sound you want, have you considered running that into a power-amp and a decent cab? [/quote] Yep, think that might be my best bet. Certainly the cheapest as I have the ability to do this already. [quote name='thumperbob 2002' timestamp='1360676645' post='1974369'] Wouldnt even know how to do this ( l6T files )- I have a VT Bass though and the Basspod murders it in every way. [/quote] They are the files created when you save presets via Line 6 Edit software. Interested that you consider the POD as that much better, I shall commence further twiddling immediately. Edited February 12, 2013 by NoirBass Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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