Flipping basses on BC

[uncle psychosis]

[quote name='Big_Stu' timestamp='1360577942' post='1972446']
Just for the record I didn't accuse YOU of anything; though if by your argument in defence of it you are aligning yourself with those that are then again, that's your look-out. [/quote]

I described this specific scenario as "a little off". Hardly a resolute defence of flipping.

[quote]And - again - and as clarified, I was talking, as I believe the OP was too, about people who make a habit of it, ie. "trade" (by the demarkation of BC). AFAIK it was rhetorical question & not accusing anyone.
[/quote]

[b]Is there anyone on the forum who is making a habit of it[/b]? I've not noticed. Hardly anything is selling consistently at the moment, I'd be genuinely flabbergasted if someone is able to consistently turn a profit buying stuff on the forum and selling it for more money a short time later.

Edited February 11, 2013 by uncle psychosis

[Waldo]

f***s sake

[Big_Stu]

[quote name='uncle psychosis' timestamp='1360578172' post='1972453'][b]Is there anyone on the forum who is making a habit of it[/b]? I've not noticed. Hardly anything is selling consistently at the moment, I'd be genuinely flabbergasted if someone is able to consistently turn a profit buying stuff on the forum and selling it for more money a short time later.[/quote]

As I said, I think it was an "in theory" question. It wanted an answer - presumably "in principle". He got several, maybe he was planning on being a flipper, I neither know nor care, but I dare say the response, and more importantly the official clarification might have deterred him.

[uncle psychosis]

[quote name='Big_Stu' timestamp='1360578638' post='1972461']
As I said, I think it was an "in theory" question. It wanted an answer - presumably "in principle".
[/quote]



Great, so we've been arguing over something that isn't even happening?

Apologies for being a bit grumpy Stu, I've not been sleeping very well recently and its far too easy to take out your frustrations on strangers on the internet. I'd just like to say that I really do appreciate the basschat "community" (even if I do disagree with some of the regulars on what that means) and don't condone people taking advantage of each other here (not that its actually happening )

[oggiesnr]

[quote name='discreet' timestamp='1360508637' post='1971375']

When I was a trader on eBay, I occasionally got messages from idiots who pointed out that they could buy the same items slightly cheaper somewhere else, and what on Earth was I doing sticking 5% on top?? Like I was supposed to be providing a service out of the kindness of my heart!
[/quote]

In my business I get this all the time, my usual answer is "No problem, go and buy it from them"

Steve

[seashell]

What's that, Flipper, you've got a really good Fender P for sale?
And you're selling it why exactly?
Ah, I see... it's because you can't actually play bass. Because you're a dolphin.

[url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=azEOeTX1LqM"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=azEOeTX1LqM[/url]

[jackers]

Is this actually a problem on here? Or is everyone getting into a big punch-up over a hypothetical situation?

Personally, since i joined the forum in 2009/10 I haven't seen anyone try to properly 'flip' items the way a power-trader would. Sure, a few people might ask for 40 or 50 quid more than he paid for something, but as has been said so many times before, an item is only worth what someone is willing to buy it for.

I always sell stuff for the same as what I bought it for (or less), but I don't feel the need to get outraged by how much another member wants for their bass/cab/whatever. If any serious attempts at flipping do happen, then they will get dealt with in the ways the mods have already pointed out.

I think by far the more serious problem at the moment is the sheer amount of arguing and personal insults that people are throwing at each other recently. Come on guys, none of us are that bad really, are we?

[niceguyhomer]

[quote name='jackers' timestamp='1360583712' post='1972570']
I think by far the more serious problem at the moment is the sheer amount of arguing and personal insults that people are throwing at each other recently. Come on guys, none of us are that bad really, are we?
[/quote]

Well said jackers.

Somebody is selling a bass on here for exactly double what he paid me for it - that's just taking the piss innit.

[uncle psychosis]

[quote name='oggiesnr' timestamp='1360582291' post='1972544']
In my business I get this all the time, my usual answer is "No problem, go and buy it from them"

Steve
[/quote]

I used to work in a large newsagent chain when I was a student. My branch was open 24 hours so stuff was more expensive than normal, as is usual with small 24 hour shops.

People would come in during the day (when other shops were open), pick up a pint of milk from the fridge (where the price was clearly marked), bring it to the counter, and then complain about the price saying things like "the small shop across the road sells this for 20p less". And then they'd buy it anyway. Weirdos.

Or they'd come in at 4 in the morning, drunk, and say things like "I can't believe your sandwiches are so expensive". Well, go somewhere else thats open at 4am and buy a cheaper sandwich from them, then

[Johngh]

The only time I think it's acceptable to sell a bass on for more that a member paid for it is if new strings have been added or if a bass has been bought and then had some luthier work done on it to make it straight. In other words if a buyer has had considerable expense in getting a bass straight. Even then there is a market value. Just my opinion.

Some of the basses I have bought on here at some time or another end up with Jon Shuker for a good set up and fret dress to get them spot on. Also, the last bass I bought on here was delivered to me with no strings on it at all, and were talking a high level bass. When i opened the case I thought the seller had taken them off for transportation and they were in the compartment in the case....nope, nothing there. The word gobsmacked come's to mind.


There has been a few sellers on here who seem to buy basses from ebay for example and then try to sell them on here for a profit. They are being watched. While it is not against forum rules, there must come a time when when if someone does it once too often they have a danger of being classed as a trader, or an amateur one at that. If it becomes too regular with any one individual, we will look into it.

[xilddx]

[quote name='wateroftyne' timestamp='1360506893' post='1971343']
It's been done to death, man.

It's fair to say that most people (including me) frown upon it, but it's not going to go away.

I made a flowchart to help people along:

[attachment=127205:flow.gif]
[/quote]



Exactly.

I wouldn't do it, but it if it sits well with their conscience I have no major objections to others flipping stuff if they were clever enough to get a cracking deal somewhere.

Like WoT says, it's either worth your money or it isn't.

No-one complains about Andy Baxter, so what's the problem with a few people doing it on here? They are probably going to spend the money on here anyway since this is pretty much the best place to buy and sell bass kit.

[xilddx]

[quote name='jackers' timestamp='1360583712' post='1972570']
Is this actually a problem on here? Or is everyone getting into a big punch-up over a hypothetical situation?

Personally, since i joined the forum in 2009/10 I haven't seen anyone try to properly 'flip' items the way a power-trader would. Sure, a few people might ask for 40 or 50 quid more than he paid for something, but as has been said so many times before, an item is only worth what someone is willing to buy it for.

I always sell stuff for the same as what I bought it for (or less), but I don't feel the need to get outraged by how much another member wants for their bass/cab/whatever. If any serious attempts at flipping do happen, then they will get dealt with in the ways the mods have already pointed out.

[b]I think by far the more serious problem at the moment is the sheer amount of arguing and personal insults that people are throwing at each other recently. Come on guys, none of us are that bad really, are we? [/b]
[/quote]

A TINY minority of posts and members do this, don't get it out of proportion you stinking ugly fishface with sh*t shoes.

[jackers]

lol, how did you know about my shoes?

unfortunately, to me at least, these few posts stick in my head far better than alot of the nice ones. Why? because I see being nice to another person as a very basic courtesy, and I see being nasty as taking extra time and effort specifically to put someone down.

I do think that I'm not alone in noticing an increase in unpleasant comments around here in recent months.

[tedmanzie]

i totally agree about professional traders, and i'm sure pretty much everyone on this thread will agree that they aren't very welcome and don't do the site any service, although personally i've not seen any examples of this 'flipping'...

what i do object to is this notion that as a non-trader bass player, buying and selling a few basses per year, you are [i]morally obliged[/i] to sell it for the [i]same[/i] price you bought it, and now this is even being suggested by the mods?!

it is [i]for example[/i] in my opinion totally reasonable to think that some fender MIJ signature models are increasing (slightly) in value purely because they are becoming more sought after now production has moved to mexico. i don't think its unreasonable or insulting or anti-comunity to put it up at £100 more than you bought it for a year ago, knowing full well that what usually happens is that the seller is going to make you an offer of what they consider reasonable anyway. i put my MIJ Geddy Jazz up for £600 having paid £500 six months ago. it sold for £530 inc post, which once you take off the postage strings and setup equates to roughly £30 loss.

its hardly the housing boom! and yet me and a few other people on here are getting labled as the 'types that will screw you into the ground' over price just because we don't object to someone trying to make a few quid on an occasional deal. i think a bit of perspective is in order!

[tedmanzie]

[quote name='xilddx' timestamp='1360587488' post='1972713']
A TINY minority of posts and members do this, don't get it out of proportion you stinking ugly fishface with sh*t shoes.
[/quote]

LOL

[yorks5stringer]

Can I add myself to the tiny minority then? A Bass I sold a couple of weeks ago on here as damaged and at a knock down price has been relisted here and eBay for nearly 20% more with nothing done to it, and charging £20 for postage which costs £7.40!
Then there's the PA I sold a couple of years ago, now up for 20% more than I sold back then.

[Big_Stu]

[quote name='uncle psychosis' timestamp='1360578857' post='1972464']


Great, so we've been arguing over something that isn't even happening? [/quote]

Hopefully - or - not that I've seen, but I don't pay a whole lot of attention, I've been off-loading guitars lately rather than buying.
Apologies too for being like a dog with a bone. I like this place & wouldn't like to see it's "spirite de corps" spoiled.
There's a lot of sage advice & opinion here - apart from them that deny The Beatles were crap - but that's another thread.

[uncle psychosis]

[quote name='Johngh' timestamp='1360586280' post='1972655']
The only time I think it's acceptable to sell a bass on for more that a member paid for it is if new strings have been added or if a bass has been bought and then had some luthier work done on it to make it straight.
[/quote]

Is that really what you think or do you mean

[quote name='Johngh' timestamp='1360586280' post='1972655']
The only time I think it's acceptable to sell a bass on for more that a member paid for it is if new strings have been added or if a bass has been bought and then had some luthier work done on it to make it straight.
[/quote]

...because if you mean it as you wrote it then this thread is about to get even longer and even more heated!

[Lfalex v1.1]

[quote name='wateroftyne' timestamp='1360506893' post='1971343']
It's been done to death, man.

It's fair to say that most people (including me) frown upon it, but it's not going to go away.

I made a flowchart to help people along:

[attachment=127205:flow.gif]
[/quote]

You forgot the "Do I actually like it?" bit...

[Big_Stu]

[quote name='seashell' timestamp='1360583647' post='1972569']
What's that, Flipper, you've got a really good Fender P for sale?
And you're selling it why exactly?
Ah, I see... it's because you can't actually play bass. Because you're a dolphin.[/quote]

Bugger! Wouldn't even be able to do scales!!! ...... cos like ....... dolphins don't have scales.

I'll get me towel.........

[Shambo]

Seems some of the replies to my hypothetical question can be grouped roughly as: 1) those who frown upon flipping, 2) those who frown but don't really care, 3) those who don't care about flipping and 4) those who are just annoyed that I dare bring up the subject.

[yorks5stringer]

Can I sign up for 1 and 4?

[LukeFRC]

[quote name='icastle' timestamp='1360510101' post='1971421']
I think it's about proportion.

If I went off to a car boot sale and picked up a pre CBS Fender Jazz Bass for £20, cleaned it up, stuck a new set of string on it and then flogged it on here for £400 would there still be a complaint because I'm making 20x what I paid for it?

As long as a price is fair (and that will undoubtedly be assessed by potential buyers) then I don't really see a huge problem.

If it's not fair then it just wont sell - that's how sales work.
[/quote] I would not complain at all, thank you. do you want to do paypal or bank transfer?



[quote name='Dingus' timestamp='1360510567' post='1971432']
I have never bought or sold a bass on Basschat , but back in the days when I had less money than I do now I bought and sold loads of used basses , mainly out of neccessity . Some I broke even on , some I lost money on , some I made a modest profit on . The crucial thing is to be[u] honest [/u]with people and let them make their mind up made up based on truthful and accurate information about what you are selling .Things have a market value , and if someone sells a bass under the market value because they need or want to realise the cash value of their asset ( i.e the bass ) quickly then it is not neccesarilly unscrupulous or immoral for the person who has bought the bass cheaply to try and get the full market value of the bass . I agree wholeheartedly that , I would sincerely hope at least , the spirit of Basschat is one of genuine enthusiasts who want to go out of their way to be fair and helpful to each other - that is certainly the way I would want to conduct any business of my own on here - but ultimately if people think a seller is being exploitative then , as others have said , no one is forcing anyone to buy from them .
[/quote]

good answer there Dingus


[quote name='Musky' timestamp='1360513923' post='1971514']
Good to hear. I was about to say I thought this is exactly what the Affiliates forum was for.

If someone is one here to trade then that should be made absolutely clear. AFAIK dealers have to declare themselves when selling secondhand cars (and for all I know other products) and there are laws that apply to dealers that don't to private sellers. If someone whats to deal on these boards they should be posting in the appropriate section.
[/quote] there are some folk on here who have a higher turnover of basses than many dealers!


[quote name='Johngh' timestamp='1360586280' post='1972655']
The only time I think it's acceptable to sell a bass on for more that a member paid for it is if new strings have been added or if a bass has been bought and then had some luthier work done on it to make it straight. In other words if a buyer has had considerable expense in getting a bass straight. Even then there is a market value. Just my opinion.

Some of the basses I have bought on here at some time or another end up with Jon Shuker for a good set up and fret dress to get them spot on. Also, the last bass I bought on here was delivered to me with no strings on it at all, and were talking a high level bass. When i opened the case I thought the seller had taken them off for transportation and they were in the compartment in the case....nope, nothing there. The word gobsmacked come's to mind.


There has been a few sellers on here who seem to buy basses from ebay for example and then try to sell them on here for a profit. They are being watched. While it is not against forum rules, there must come a time when when if someone does it once too often they have a danger of being classed as a trader, or an amateur one at that. If it becomes too regular with any one individual, we will look into it.
[/quote] I picked up my Warwick from someone 5-6 years ago when the prices were low. He was emigrating to america in a week and needed shot of it. It didn't cost much. I spent over the years some money on a fret dress and some on different pickups but you are going to add maybe £100 of work to the price I paid for it. Are you saying if I sold this bass, A brilliant 1991 Streamer Stage One, I would be selling it for what I paid then plus £100? Because that would make it cheaper than some secondhand mexican fenders! (and no Warwickhunt you can't have it - it's a hypothetical example!) I get what you're saying but I don't think it's that simple - like when I see folk offer a bass and tell me they have spent silly amounts on set up and that makes up 20% of the price that's equally mad as I can set up a bass myself - just because you've spent £80 on a set up doens't mean the bass is necessarily worth more - if the bass IS worth more then I would prefer it was just sold at what it was worth as- I mean how do you work it out, I found a beaten up Peavey T40 a few years back at a very low price - kept it 6 months and spent ages stripping it down and doing it up, replacing the broken parts etc. How should I have added the bill for my time onto the price? In the end I sold it for market value.

[skankdelvar]

[quote name='Big_Stu' timestamp='1360589226' post='1972781'] I like this place & wouldn't like to see it's "spirite de corps" spoiled. There's a lot of sage advice & opinion here... [/quote]

Quite right. To paraphrase Mr Gilbert Shelton, 'BassChat will get you through times of no money better than money will get you through times of no BassChat'.

As for buying cheap on ebay and then unloading here. It may indeed be that this is a rare occurrence, but at least one BC-er (no longer with us, I think) was accustomed to advertise stuff here within 24 hours of buying it on the Bay from the USA.

Clearly, the item could not yet have been in his possession, yet his ads were frequently crafted to [i]imply[/i] that this was a regretful sale of one of his old favourites. This struck me as being a very git-ish thing to do.

Uncle Psychosis's point about a seller's enforced need to realise a good price - sickness, bills, personal circumstances etc., is a good one and shows him to have a considerate nature, IMO. Then again, the original seller in our hypothetical chain may have dropped the price for a quick sale for exactly the same reasons.

I think that BassChat is about friendship and co-operation. I've no problem with traders selling and buying here as long as they recognise that and that they're transparent about their relationship with the community. Who knows, it could benefit them by enhancing their status as the 'go to' guy when times are tight.

Edited February 11, 2013 by skankdelvar

[uncle psychosis]

[quote name='skankdelvar' timestamp='1360593742' post='1972930']

Uncle Psychosis's point about a seller's enforced need to realise a good price - sickness, bills, personal circumstances etc., is a good one and shows him to have a considerate nature, IMO.
[/quote]

Thanks. I think the point I was trying to make initially was that I don't think its very fair to assume that someone is out to "screw" the community based on a one-off sale. Its not very community spirited to jump to negative conclusions about your fellow bass chatters, IMO.