Guest bassman7755 Posted February 13, 2013 Share Posted February 13, 2013 (edited) Comparing Mark King with Marcus Miller is like trying to compare Brian May with Larry Carlton - the former are musicians but also entertainers of the common people whereas the latter are much more "musicians musicians". Both endeavours deserve equal respect. Edited February 13, 2013 by bassman7755 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dingus Posted February 13, 2013 Share Posted February 13, 2013 [quote name='Big_Stu' timestamp='1360796876' post='1976835'] Not at all, at least in your posts you've cited people and particular songs that to endorse your point. Maybe it's an internet thing, I've just never found it in real life................. though I suppose a "yet" would be in order at this point. [/quote] For what it's worth , I've known quite a few pro musicians over the years , and on the whole they were just as bitchy as anyone else , although the older they get the less dismissive they are of other musicians doing certain things because they need the money ! I've also known a few people who have met and worked with Mark King , and they all have said that he is a really , really nice bloke and the most down-to -earth fella you could ever meet . But the fact remains that he gained a reputation as being some kind of leading virtuoso of the bass guitar , which he quite clearly is not to true cognicenti . Strip away the show pony stuff ( which doesn't sound very good anyway ) and you are left with a very capable player , but not a great one . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dingus Posted February 13, 2013 Share Posted February 13, 2013 [quote name='bassman7755' timestamp='1360797984' post='1976859'] Comparing Mark King with Marcus Miller is like trying to compare Brian May with Larry Carlton - the former are musicians but also entertainers of the common people whereas the latter are much more "musicians musicians". Both endeavours deserve equal respect. [/quote] I am sure that Mark is an entertainer too , but then again Marcus Miller is also a band leader in his own right . But just for the record , I am judging Mark King purely on his musical ability not as a showbiz entity . . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bassman7755 Posted February 13, 2013 Share Posted February 13, 2013 For some reason this discussion made me thing of this (very un-PC) clip ... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NqTpqIUWVrc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bassman7755 Posted February 13, 2013 Share Posted February 13, 2013 (edited) [quote name='Dingus' timestamp='1360798168' post='1976864'] I am sure that Mark is an entertainer too , but then again Marcus Miller is also a band leader in his own right . But just for the record , I am judging Mark King purely on his musical ability not as a showbiz entity . . [/quote] Making music that non-musicians want to listen to is a form of musical ability. Edited February 13, 2013 by bassman7755 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big_Stu Posted February 13, 2013 Share Posted February 13, 2013 (edited) [quote name='Dingus' timestamp='1360798018' post='1976860']But the fact remains that he gained a reputation as being some kind of leading virtuoso of the bass guitar[/quote] I wouldn't entirely agree with that; they weren't together that long beofre the hits started (IIRC) but at the time his slap bass was very different in the mainstream, just recovering from New Romanticsm (plus the NWOBHM), so it was different to the general public, most of who wouldn't be aware of Stanley Clarke et al. I'm no huge L42 fan, I liked what they did then, but I don't like slap bass as a rule; I prefer bowel distorting bass, except for Lemmy's but that's just so unique it's just awesome. Still - always ready to hear anyone else's [i]qualified[/i] (as in cited) opinion. Edited February 13, 2013 by Big_Stu Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marcus bell Posted February 13, 2013 Author Share Posted February 13, 2013 [quote name='bassman7755' timestamp='1360798564' post='1976870'] Making music that non-musicians want to listen to is a form of musical ability. [/quote] Well said. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dingus Posted February 13, 2013 Share Posted February 13, 2013 [quote name='Big_Stu' timestamp='1360798604' post='1976872'] I wouldn't entirely agree with that; they weren't together that long beofre the hits started (IIRC) but at the time his slap bass was very different in the mainstream, just recovering from New Romanticsm ( the NWOBHM), so it was different to the general public, most of who wouldn't be aware of Stanley Clarke et al. I'm no huge L42 fan, I liked what they did then, but I don't like slap bass as a rule; I prefer bowel distorting bass, except for Lemmy's but that's just so unique it's just awesome. Still - always ready to hear anyone else's [i]qualified[/i] (as in cited) opinion. [/quote] That's fair enough Stu , but let me try and put what I am saying in context . I am a big fan ( indeed I am a product of ) that great era of up-front bass playing in the early 80s , and I vividly remember Mark King and Level 42 when they first came out . Mark was a "hot " player , but even back then his tone was thin and wimpy because he had to use such skinny strings to play in that style . With the benefit of hindsight , once you strip away his indulgences like the slap solos ( that are all basically different versions of the same event ) he isn't really any better (or even as good as ) some of the other young British players of the day such as Nick Beggs . What I object to is people who say that Mark King is one of best players of all time , when in fact he was just the most prominent player of [i]that [/i]time . They are very different players , but the comparison I would make by way of contrast is with Pino Palladino . He is everything that Mark King is not , and he [i]is[/i] a truly great player . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big_Stu Posted February 14, 2013 Share Posted February 14, 2013 [quote name='Dingus' timestamp='1360799855' post='1976890']What I object to is people who say that Mark King is one of best players of all time , when in fact he was just the most prominent player of [i]that [/i]time.[/quote] 100% agree with that. PP I can only marvel at his mastery, while not being totally into his music. As a demo as to what makes me want to nick someone elses hands; I was at JD's to accidentally meet MK because I wanted a bass to sound like this & John put the circuit in......... [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ffZXnWkbkgs[/media] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dingus Posted February 14, 2013 Share Posted February 14, 2013 (edited) [quote name='Big_Stu' timestamp='1360800748' post='1976899'] 100% agree with that. PP I can only marvel at his mastery, while not being totally into his music. As a demo as to what makes me want to nick someone elses hands; I was at JD's to accidentally meet MK because I wanted a bass to sound like this & John put the circuit in......... [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ffZXnWkbkgs[/media] [/quote] John made me a bass once and he is without doubt one of the nicest guys you will ever meet , and a true master craftsman . Edited February 14, 2013 by Dingus Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aende Posted February 14, 2013 Share Posted February 14, 2013 MK...hmmm...I am not a Level 42 fan. But, man, he can play bass. There was allot of stuff on the records that sounds to sterile to my ear, like it is a synth.....I know it is not synth, but I guess that is his sound and clinical ability. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Clifton Posted February 23, 2013 Share Posted February 23, 2013 (edited) Music goes beyond technical ability - it is something that touches people and moves them. The fact that, say, Nick Beggs was a better player than King is irrelevent: his lines didn't affect people or stay with them. He was just a vaguely flapping thumb behind Limahl's mullet. There are two reasons Mark King came to prominence and came to be seen by the masses as a great bass player. The first is that he was the front man of the band as well as the bass player, and that while in the spotlight he was playing in a very showy style that caught the audience's eye. However, beyond that he also wrote basslines that were memorable and stayed with people, and made teenage boys want to get a plank of wood up under their armpit and emulate that sound. This is what makes a musician great, IMO - the ability to create feeling and connection. Oh and to dismiss the thin strings is facile - they make up the distinctive tone of the King/Clarke line of bass playing (whether or not you feel this shifts the bass's role away from BASS towards banjo/cello) that spawned a million 30-90 sales and drove more UK bass sales than Paladino/Beggs/Sting/McCartney/blah/blah put together. Just because [i]you[/i] prefer clunky old-school bass strings doesn't make any other variation on tone less valid. Of course, everbody is entitled to their opinion and to slag off those prodigiously more talented and successful than they are - it's human nature; but there is really no 'musical' merit distinction to be made here between players because, as has been well proven on numerous threads, one man's cacophonous mess of noise is another man's music of the spheres. No one is in a position to judge. Edited February 23, 2013 by Paul Clifton Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barneyg42 Posted February 23, 2013 Share Posted February 23, 2013 [quote name='Paul Clifton' timestamp='1361634120' post='1988587'] Music goes beyond technical ability - it is something that touches people and moves them. The fact that, say, Nick Beggs was a better player than King is irrelevent: his lines didn't affect people or stay with them. He was just a vaguely flapping thumb behind Limahl's mullet. There are two reasons Mark King came to prominence and came to be seen by the masses as a great bass player. The first is that he was the front man of the band as well as the bass player, and that while in the spotlight he was playing in a very showy style that caught the audience's eye. However, beyond that he also wrote basslines that were memorable and stayed with people, and made teenage boys want to get a plank of wood up under their armpit and emulate that sound. This is what makes a musician great, IMO - the ability to create feeling and connection. Oh and to dismiss the thin strings is facile - they make up the distinctive tone of the King/Clarke line of bass playing (whether or not you feel this shifts the bass's role away from BASS towards banjo/cello) that spawned a million 30-90 sales and drove more UK bass sales than Paladino/Beggs/Sting/McCartney/blah/blah put together. Just because [i]you[/i] prefer clunky old-school bass strings doesn't make any other variation on tone less valid. Of course, everbody is entitled to their opinion and to slag off those prodigiously more talented and successful than they are - it's human nature; but there is really no 'musical' merit distinction to be made here between players because, as has been well proven on numerous threads, one man's cacophonous mess of noise is another man's music of the spheres. No one is in a position to judge. [/quote] +1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thunderthumbs Posted February 23, 2013 Share Posted February 23, 2013 Quite obviously Mark King [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UgbM18_z4Xg[/media] Not quite so obviously Mark King [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VaTERxV47Mg[/media] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lynottfan Posted February 23, 2013 Share Posted February 23, 2013 My bass sits lower than midrift, got my pick going like a good un' and I don't really have much use for slap, but man that boy Mark King can play and I like L42, infact Mark is one of those players that, though I have no desire to play like them, they inspire me to play better, some can love, some can hate, but Mark King's playing I have to rate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big_Stu Posted February 23, 2013 Share Posted February 23, 2013 [quote name='Lynottfan' timestamp='1361650246' post='1988888'] some can love, some can hate, but Mark King's playing I have to rate.[/quote] Was that deliberate? You could so put one of his lines behind that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlatEric Posted February 23, 2013 Share Posted February 23, 2013 [quote name='Big_Stu' timestamp='1360800748' post='1976899'] 100% agree with that. PP I can only marvel at his mastery, while not being totally into his music. As a demo as to what makes me want to nick someone elses hands; I was at JD's to accidentally meet MK because I wanted a bass to sound like this & John put the circuit in......... [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ffZXnWkbkgs[/media] [/quote] . . . .just off to practice this, back [s]soon[/s] - [s]tomorrow[/s] - [s]next week[/s] erm. . . . when I've cracked it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalim Posted February 23, 2013 Share Posted February 23, 2013 (edited) Mark King is a phenominal bassist/musician, I love Marcus Miller and Stan Clark but to me no one has brought forward such good slap bass lines in great songs as Level 42. He is so musical and whether the lines are fast with lots of notes, they all fit so well with great timing, groove and phrasing. A great inspiration to me along with Paul Mcartney and Jamerson. Kalim Edited February 23, 2013 by Kalim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BassTractor Posted February 23, 2013 Share Posted February 23, 2013 [quote name='FlatEric' timestamp='1361651138' post='1988909'] . . . .just off to practice this, back [s]soon[/s] - [s]tomorrow[/s] - [s]next week[/s] erm. . . . when I've cracked it. [/quote] You'll be sorely missed, but ... Farewell and goodbye! best, bert Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BassTractor Posted February 23, 2013 Share Posted February 23, 2013 [quote name='Lynottfan' timestamp='1361650246' post='1988888'] My bass sits lower than midrift, got my pick going like a good un' and I don't really have much use for slap, but man that boy Mark King can play and I like L42, infact Mark is one of those players that, though I have no desire to play like them, they inspire me to play better, some can love, some can hate, but Mark King's playing I have to rate. [/quote] Sorry, Andrew, but some of your other poems were better. You practise the bass too much these days, perhaps? best, bert Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big_Stu Posted February 23, 2013 Share Posted February 23, 2013 (edited) [quote name='FlatEric' timestamp='1361651138' post='1988909'] . . . .just off to practice this, back [s]soon[/s] - [s]tomorrow[/s] - [s]next week[/s] erm. . . . when I've cracked it. [/quote] It's off "Get Fresh" remember that? Gaz Topp asked him to do it again after that, but Jim goes "naa, I prefer this", cranks the volume & does Purple Haze. so I console myself by just doing that bit. Edited February 23, 2013 by Big_Stu Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lynottfan Posted February 24, 2013 Share Posted February 24, 2013 Hey Bert, when written out like that it was a rather poetic response, so me the four string groover, could be a literacy mover (I promise to stop Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wombatboter Posted February 24, 2013 Share Posted February 24, 2013 Saw this on YT and love the way Mark approaches the original song (which had fretless)... very characteristic fills. [url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GDXsQqnoHKo"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GDXsQqnoHKo[/url] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
louisthebass Posted February 24, 2013 Share Posted February 24, 2013 I really liked the early L42 albums - World Machine was a good album, but it's noticable that the bottom end had started to be filled out with synth bass. That was pretty much a taster for what was to come, and from my ears, MK's bass playing started to get lost in the mix.I'm not a big fan of his tone using either the Alembic or his Kingbass - he should have stayed with using the Jaydee. As has been discussed in previous threads about the guy, his fingerstyle playing has always been overlooked in favour of his slap technique. "True Believers" is still my all time favourite L42 track where he's playing fingerstyle for the bulk of the song - I wish mine was that good. MK is always going to divide opinion on here - my take is that he's done a lot for the bass guitar in the UK, and people I know who have met him have always said he's a top bloke, which is always a good thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wombatboter Posted February 24, 2013 Share Posted February 24, 2013 Not only in the UK.... when Level 42 came on the scene it was a bomb in the face of every bassplayer in Belgium. He was the talk of the town... his influence around here was and is amazing. I've always been a huge fan (people can love McCartney (look at my avatar) ànd King, it's all great music which is uplifting) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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