How do you know if a bassist is 'good' or not?

[lojo]

I'm sure Lemmy would agree with most things said in this thread

[krysh]

for me a bassist is a good player if he improves the music he is performing with his style.
it is all about music, not only about chops, not only about scales, not only about theory, not only about perfection.
it is just this little thing to add done with the right energy that makes you love that piece of music you listen to.

[lowdowner]

*fewer* notes PLEASE, not *less* notes... Grrrr,...

this really upsets my grammar OCD

[bobbass4k]

[quote name='xilddx' timestamp='1360953409' post='1979019']
BION, I have not heard Oceansize before, I have now, and I am digging it big! Excellent mate. Great bass lines and playing too.
[/quote]

They're the kind of technical I like, it's not 600 notes per minute in 23/16, but if you listen a few times and really think about it there's so many layers and weird tricks going on, like this track:

[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wB0dEjr1tkg[/media]

May not sound too complicated, but the keyboard in the intro is playing dotted eights, so rhythmically it's a complete headf**k, but you don't need to know that to appreciate the track. I'll stop now, as I could geek out about Oceansize all day.

Back vaguely on topic, this is also one of my favourite basslines:

[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=96O8SM20y7U[/media]

The essence of simplicity, but it just works so well.

[Musky]

[quote name='xilddx' timestamp='1360938049' post='1978675']
3 [mass noun] the ability to [s]discern[/s] define what is of good quality or of a high aesthetic standard

Oxford online dictionary.
[/quote]
[quote name='xilddx' timestamp='1360938049' post='1978675']
3 [mass noun] the ability to [s]discern[/s] define what is of good quality or of a high aesthetic standard

Oxford online dictionary.
[/quote]
Fixed it for you.

The OED's definition rather presupposes that 'a high aesthetic standard' just exists independent of everything else, waiting to be discovered in the wild.

I'd say that the aforementioned aesthetic standard is defined by those in a position to promulgate their own particular tastes, and pass that off as 'good taste'.

Which, as others have already pointed out, bags the question, 'who is defining what good bass playing actually is?'

[lojo]

If the general public notice the bass players line, it's either really really good or really really bad

[Conan]

[quote name='lojo' timestamp='1360957812' post='1979147']
If the general public notice the bass players line, it's either really really good or really really bad
[/quote]

Yes. Sadly we are the "referees" of the music world...

[thumperbob 2002]

I've seen loads of good bass players. Brilliant ones - you could say these are the ones the crowd notice, not so many.

I've never seen a Jamerson or Jaco, but I know they ar the tiniest minority.

[Pete Academy]

Just come on to this thread. To me the bassist plays for the song, whether it be one note or a hundred. I think Elvis Costello's bassist is a great example, and also the guy in Madness.

Edited February 15, 2013 by Pete Academy

[Dad3353]

How do you know if a bassist is 'good' or not?


Look to see if it's Jack Casady or not...

[BetaFunk]

Jim Fielder. Just playing great bass.........................................

http://youtu.be/isnbyS5Q0zE

[xilddx]

[quote name='Pete Academy' timestamp='1360969358' post='1979369']
Just come on to this thread. To me the bassist plays for the song, whether it be one note or a hundred. I think Elvis Costello's bassist is a great example, and also the guy in Madness.
[/quote] Spot on the money, Pete. And how the f*** could I forget Bruce Thomas! Absolutely the epitome of what I'm talking bout. His bass on Big Sister's Clothes is a stand out for me.

[Happy Jack]

I think this bassline (by Paul Martinez) pretty much sums up what I consider to be "good bass playing":

[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PAhPtFs918o[/media]

Minimal, essential playing, occasional well-chosen drop-ins, superb groove. Do NOT be distracted by the rubbish miming!

It's not a technically challenging line (I can play it, after all) but it contains everything you need, and nothing else.

Edited February 16, 2013 by Happy Jack

[bigjohn]

[url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Bbfrn400zs"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Bbfrn400zs[/url]

[Dad3353]

[quote name='Happy Jack' timestamp='1360975330' post='1979468']...Minimal, essential playing, occasional well-chosen drop-ins, superb groove...[/quote]

Just to illustrate just how different we can all be, here's the 'Master', live; not exactly 'minimal'..!
No slouch on the guitar, either, and Spencer Dryden on drums. great stuff.

[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ltyjNjsz8UU[/media]

...and another gem; be patient, the bass 'solo' is around 2'30, but worth the wait (worth it's weight..? )...

[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bM-_nkEiEDU#t=1m30s[/media]

That's bass, to me (but then again, I'm old...).

Edited February 16, 2013 by Dad3353

[spencer.b]

I don't really have any criteria for what I think is "good" . Some of my goodest players have got it all ,time tone technique harmony, players like Ray Brown, Jamerson you know the type . I also think Dee Dee Ramone and his shall we say rugged technique is good, sometimes that school band punk rock n roll thing does it for me. but I also like modern nashville players whose note placement and length is exquisite even though their lines through the changes are generic and cliched. Some of the modern gospel players are right show offs but I think they're good too.
is there a bit of a chops vs subtlety thing going on here.
It's all good

[gjones]

You don't need to be a virtuoso to be a good bass player. A bass player that plays for the song (instead of for himself) is a good player. A bass player who makes the band sound better (rather than draw attention to his expert, if totally inappropriate, slapping technique) is a good player. A bass player who inserts subtleties into basslines, that makes it interesting for him/her to play and also adds something to the music being played (rather than a flurry of pointless twiddles) is a good player.

I draw parallels with my bands search for a drummer. We've had many drummers play with us over the last few months but we didn't pick the Simon Phillips wannabes, we picked the one who had the most sympathy with the type of music we play. In my opinion he was the best and he's a GOOD drummer . And we sound 100% better for making that decision.

[gjones]

[quote name='Happy Jack' timestamp='1360975330' post='1979468']
I think this bassline (by Paul Martinez) pretty much sums up what I consider to be "good bass playing":

[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PAhPtFs918o[/media]

Minimal, essential playing, occasional well-chosen drop-ins, superb groove. Do NOT be distracted by the rubbish miming!

It's not a technically challenging line (I can play it, after all) but it contains everything you need, and nothing else.
[/quote]

Never a truer word spoken. A less confident bassist would have tried to jazz it up and made it crap.


Edit: this is the crap version

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JqEQKgxKo_0

Edited February 16, 2013 by gjones

[lojo]

Whenever these topics come up I post this, perfect line, and use of fills, couldn't be simpler

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=2xwL-7fKKUE

Edited February 16, 2013 by lojo

[thisnameistaken]

[quote name='Pete Academy' timestamp='1360969358' post='1979369']Just come on to this thread. To me the bassist plays for the song, whether it be one note or a hundred. I think Elvis Costello's bassist is a great example, and also the guy in Madness.[/quote]

I think I rate bass players by these sorts of standards. It's the earliest music I remember, from when I was really little. Madness, Specials, Attractions, Blockheads, Joe Jackson, etc. They've all got memorable bass parts in their music but there's no over-playing.

Whereas by the time I was a teenager and I got 'my music' the bass had taken a bit of a back seat. The most audible bass player was Kim Deal (who I really rate, for the record) and most bands I listened to didn't really have any strong ideas coming from the bass. Acid Jazz happened a couple of years later but looking back that was just warmed-up funk really and didn't sound as honest as the funk stuff that came before. The americans still had some interesting bass players though in bands like Fishbone, Primus, Mr Bungle etc. But that was all a bit over-the-top and didn't (still doesn't) really relate to what I was doing.

I wonder if a lot of guys who are big fans of the clinic / trade show bassists have grown up with much good bass playing in pop music to listen to, because it seems to happen in cycles.

[risingson]

My favourite bass players are the ones who demonstrate a great musicianship. I like good tones but I much prefer identifying with their note choices, rhythmic inflections, the feeling of space and time in which they operate. I can tell that they're good by the way they work for their music and drive it forward.

[Leonard Smalls]

Here's an example of proper groove and tone, all at the same time!

[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VCP4pVWteNo[/media]

[BigRedX]

[quote name='Leonard Smalls' timestamp='1361011165' post='1979669']
Here's an example of proper groove and tone, all at the same time!
[/quote]

But like all examples, only in the context of the song. It would sound fairly rubbish on an AC/DC track.

[BigRedX]

For most of the music I listen too, the best bass lines are pretty unobtrusive. They lock in with the rhythm, and weave their melody around the vocals and other instruments. You don't really notice that it's there, but in reality it's pretty much holding the whole song together, and take it away the songs sounds weedy and unstructured. A bassist that can bring that to a song is a good bassist.

[Lord Sausage]

[quote name='icastle' timestamp='1360932897' post='1978500']
Depends on where the word 'good' is coming from.

If it's from the bass player then, in my experience, they're not.
If it comes from the musicians that play with the bass player, then they probably are.

Never trust self proclaimed excellence.
[/quote]Jaco?