Borrowing The Back Line

[rOB]

I'm guessing that a few of us here end as default band manager so how do you handle the tricky situation of asking about sharing drum shells?

I always try to ask the band who are playing last if its ok before we turn up to the gig. Mostly people say that its fine as long as we bring drum breakables. Is this other people's experience?

[flyfisher]

[quote name='icastle' timestamp='1360950145' post='1978932']
Blimey!

Don't tell him that or he'll expect all of us to do it.
[/quote]

Please don't, because things will be far less interesting if we all start agreeing all the time.

[jackers]

[quote name='rOB' timestamp='1360952842' post='1979003']
I'm guessing that a few of us here end as default band manager so how do you handle the tricky situation of asking about sharing drum shells?

I always try to ask the band who are playing last if its ok before we turn up to the gig. Mostly people say that its fine as long as we bring drum breakables. Is this other people's experience?
[/quote]

I've been the organiser person for my previous bands, and yea, this is pretty much what I have found. I've only had someone say no to a request to share drum shells once, it was a guy who had just bought a new kit and was really protective of it. Fair enough though, it is his kit.

Edited February 15, 2013 by jackers

[flyfisher]

[quote name='rOB' timestamp='1360952842' post='1979003']
I'm guessing that a few of us here end as default band manager so how do you handle the tricky situation of asking about sharing drum shells?

I always try to ask the band who are playing last if its ok before we turn up to the gig. Mostly people say that its fine as long as we bring drum breakables. Is this other people's experience?
[/quote]

In my limited experience the etiquette amongst drummers seems to be to share everything except cymbals and snare drum.

[rOB]

[quote name='jackers' timestamp='1360953687' post='1979028']
I've been the organiser person for my previous bands, and yea, this is pretty much what I have found. I've only had someone say no to a request to share drum shells once, it was a guy who had just bought a new kit and was really protective of it. Fair enough though, it is his kit.
[/quote]

Mmm, yeah it is fair. How did you handle it? I've had a no recently, we took our kit and ended up using theirs anyway. Massive waste of energy.

Would you expect your drummer to share his shells?

[BILL POSTERS]

Sometimes you get cornered into letting people use your gear. Short notice etc. I dont mind too much, but when your last on, you get set up first during the soundcheck, let somebody use your amp. Then after a quick changeover find out your leads and tuner are in a tangle thrown behind your amp. Then find the gains been deliberately turned right down or something like that, cant hear yourself and cant just turn it back up without blowing the sound guys mind.

Happened to me that way a few times. Sometimes wonder if its a deliberate attempt to make you look crap, or in my case, Crapper than I am anyway.

Edited February 15, 2013 by BILL POSTERS

[rOB]

[quote name='flyfisher' timestamp='1360953767' post='1979031']
In my limited experience the etiquette amongst drummers seems to be to share everything except cymbals and snare drum.
[/quote]

Yep, that's my experience too. I feel an interesting discussion with our drummer coming on.

[jackers]

[quote name='rOB' timestamp='1360953868' post='1979035']
Mmm, yeah it is fair. How did you handle it? I've had a no recently, we took our kit and ended up using theirs anyway. Massive waste of energy.

Would you expect your drummer to share his shells?
[/quote]

I said that it was fair enough, and got our drummer to bring his kit instead. Our drummer had a decent sized car, so it wasn't really too much of a problem for us. It made set up take a bit longer though.

I wouldn't necessarily expect him to share all the time, in the same way that I wouldn't always share my rig, but I would expect an open mind to requests to share

[icastle]

[quote name='flyfisher' timestamp='1360953647' post='1979026']
Please don't, because things will be far less interesting if we all start agreeing all the time.
[/quote]

Oh OK then... I mean 'no they wouldnt!'

[rOB]

[quote name='jackers' timestamp='1360954304' post='1979051']
I said that it was fair enough, and got our drummer to bring his kit instead. Our drummer had a decent sized car, so it wasn't really too much of a problem for us. It made set up take a bit longer though.[/quote]

Mmm. Yep, that was probably the best way to handle it.

I really don't like being in charge of other people's instruments particularly organising sharing drums. Stress city.

[BigRedX]

Most of the gigs we do are 3+ band affairs. Each band using all their own gear is generally impractical for the smooth running of the evening. So gear sharing is sorted out with the other bands in advance. Usually one band supplies the drum kit (with each drummer bringing snare, cymbals and bass drum pedal) and another brings the bass rig. Guitarists generally like to use their own amps, and while they sometimes share cabs, it can be a bit dodgy if you're expected to plug your expensive valve amp into some ancient cab of unknown impedance.

In the two and half years I've been gigging with the Terrortones we've never had any problems with gear sharing. We're polite and thankful when other bands let us use their drums and amps and we've always had the same in return with the gear that we've supplied.

[Roger2611]

A couple of times in the last year we have played alongside/ support to a certain local band, the bass player always tries to insist I use his rig because it's vintage and awsome he always seems a bit put out when I say no, thank you ever so much for the kind offer but I really want to use me own. He has seen us at a couple of our own gigs and always says how good my set up sounds

[Dad3353]

[quote name='BigRedX' timestamp='1360954615' post='1979066']
Most of the gigs we do are 3+ band affairs. Each band using all their own gear is generally impractical for the smooth running of the evening. So gear sharing is sorted out with the other bands in advance. Usually one band supplies the drum kit (with each drummer bringing snare, cymbals and bass drum pedal) and another brings the bass rig. Guitarists generally like to use their own amps, and while they sometimes share cabs, it can be a bit dodgy if you're expected to plug your expensive valve amp into some ancient cab of unknown impedance.

In the two and half years I've been gigging with the Terrortones we've never had any problems with gear sharing. We're polite and thankful when other bands let us use their drums and amps and we've always had the same in return with the gear that we've supplied.
[/quote]

This is just about how things work for us (The Daub'z...) when we're out. Mostly multi-band, mostly amicably shared, negotiated, intelligent backline use. I have a particular advantage (on drums...) as I play 'lefty, so, whatever happens, it's going to be a bit longer set-up, so I mostly get to use my kit. Wherever we are in the running order, my kit is usually the best there, anyway, so I often 'swap over' for another drummer, and swap back for our own set. It is 'de rigour' that snare, cymbals and pedals are not shared (except to help out a colleague in a pickle...). Cymbals are not 'breakables', it should be noted.
Our bass rig (Hiwatt into Ampeg...) is equally solicited by all, mostly, but is pretty much unbreakable, and we survey the proceedings closely. The guitars have a 'standard' Marshall stack, so no problems, and a complex Mesa Boogie racked Midi rig which we'll set up for a player, but with limited functionality. We are careful in the use of our gear (I can't really imagine being credible playing with other folk's gear, really...), and have few/no problems.

[JTUK]

Really don't understand gigs like these.
If you have to deal with issues like is my gear safe, why the hell would you do them..??
Both my rigs are a very decent spec, wth would I want to use anyone elses..and why would let
anyone I don't know and trust share mine.

And why would I play on bills where this is all the norm...??????????

[lojo]

A recent gig I did , the shoe ended up on the other foot, the main guitarists amp failed (brand new black star) took 5 mins to get him back online through the pa only and he'd lost much of the control over his sound, rest of set was awful as everything built around him (I was deping) but no one offered , other bands where in the wings etc, and we didn't ask,

Just think if we saw this happen to another band we would have offered

[Dave Vader]

I like gear share gigs. It is easier for the engineers, the changeover times etc. etc.
The worst experience I ever had with a gear share was last year at a festival, I lugged my amp all the way from the car park across fields of mud (having been told there was no backline, fair enough, that's why I bought a tiny amp that is nice and easy to carry) since the "roads" between stage areas were now just bogs.
I got there dragged my little amp on stage, and began to hook it up, when the lovely sound guy pointed at an ampeg 6x10 and Orange Bass Terror on the stage and said "do you not want to use that then mate?" to which I obviously said, "by golly yes I would."
I then lugged the bloody thing all the way back to the car park, and didn't use it, got it spattered with mud, and gave myself a backache for absolutely nothing.
Bugger.
BTW, if I am ever in an amp-share with you, do not be afraid, I rarely touch the controls, as long as I can hear it, I let the sound guy do the tone twiddling, as my bass tends to sound the same whatever rig it goes through.

[Roland Rock]

[quote name='Dave Vader' timestamp='1360964771' post='1979292']
I like gear share gigs. It is easier for the engineers, the changeover times etc. etc.
The worst experience I ever had with a gear share was last year at a festival, I lugged my amp all the way from the car park across fields of mud (having been told there was no backline, fair enough, that's why I bought a tiny amp that is nice and easy to carry) since the "roads" between stage areas were now just bogs.
I got there dragged my little amp on stage, and began to hook it up, when the lovely sound guy pointed at an ampeg 6x10 and Orange Bass Terror on the stage and said "do you not want to use that then mate?" to which I obviously said, "by golly yes I would."
I then lugged the bloody thing all the way back to the car park, and didn't use it, got it spattered with mud, and gave myself a backache for absolutely nothing.
Bugger.
BTW, if I am ever in an amp-share with you, do not be afraid, I rarely touch the controls, as long as I can hear it, I let the sound guy do the tone twiddling, as my bass tends to sound the same whatever rig it goes through.

[/quote]

Hah, yes, I've had similar, where the venue manager said bring your own backline, then as soon as I've lugged my rig up all the stairs, the headline band finish sound checking and say "feel free to use our backline". A frustrating lack of communication.

Although I respect that people have the right to say no, I still think that it's being a bit petty and precious, not in the spirit of the 'musician community' of which I feel a part. But then, I've never had a bad experience with gear share.

I'm perfectly happy to let people share my rig - other than spilling a pint on it or switching the impedance switch on the back, I don't see that they can do much harm.

[bertbass]

Never. very rarely share a stage with another band but when we have, I always use my gear, it's always better than other bass setups, IMO. Being left handed means lending my bass is a no, no as well. Our drummer uses a double kit so unless there is a double pedal around, he uses his own kit and the way he sets it up means most drummers can't play his anyway.

If we were playing with another band and their gear broke, then I'd be the first one to offer help. but don't expect to use to use mine, it won't happen. Same with the P.A.

[Hutton]

[url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UzGSEgRgkSU"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UzGSEgRgkSU[/url]

[discreet]

'Of course not - I've never f*cking met you - go away!' Excellent vid.

[Prime_BASS]

9 times out of 10 I am taking mine for everyone else to use, as I know I'll be using something of decent quality then and I'll at least be able to hear myself over drums and ridiculous blackstar stacks some idiots bring.

I'm normally quiet happy about it but still protective, 99% of the people I play with are gents and are always thankful and some even ask even though I organised with the promoter that I would provide it for everyone to use, which is always nice.

Yet I am protective because it amazes me that any 'gigging' musician will go out into their desired field with out even a modicum of knowledge about how to use an amp.
I know they probably only have a small cheap combo, but because they use their Laney RatBag amp with all the knobs twisted to 11 because they are fighting an ever losing battle with their friend's mum's 4x12 3trillion watt Bugera stack, they assume they can do it to others. I would be embarrassed if I turned up to a gig and greeted the fellow bassist whose amp I am free to use , then turned to said amp and looked blindly holding my jack lead as I wonder where the hell to stick it.

There is only one hole in the front, it isn't that confusing.

Luckily the amp I have now has the world's brightest LED's so I can always see the clip light coming on from across the room.

And please stop asking me to is you can borrow my stramp/spare strings/leads as DM said, 'I've only just met you' and if you can't afford a £5 strap/lead/string then what are you doing with your life?

It still bugs me, even grown men can't seem to fathom any amp I have had.

Edited February 16, 2013 by Prime_BASS

[Telebass]

No. I will not want to use yours, and you cannot use mine. Conversation over. Except for bass player friends, it will never happen. Even then, I rarely feel comfortable about it.

[mikebass84]

I have never had a problem lending out my combo provided people ask and treat it with respect. Most of the time it's being DI'd so I ask them to leave the volume alone.
Have had a few times when I've been told I can use someone else gear and then not been allowed to touch the EQ, which gave me a horrible sound

PS. I am currently investing in a new rig to prevent this in the future (and cause my combo isn't very well and needs fixing)

[BigRedX]

All those saying they don't lend or borrow rigs obviously don't play at the lower end of the originals bands circuit.

For a start most of the time the stage area is tiny with little space left once you've got a drum kit and 2-3 sets of amps up there. Stick another band's amps in front and they are left perched on the edge of the stage. Add a third band and it's simply not going to happen.

Also at a lot of the venues there isn't anywhere off-stage to store gear that isn't being used at the moment.

And when you've got a maximum of 30 minutes turn around time between bands, it's just not practical to swap over more than drum breakables and maybe one guitar amp. No matter how well rehearsed your band are at doing this you have to assume that the band on before will be terrible at getting their stuff off stage.

Remember that it's all about entertaining the audience. You need to get set up and playing as quickly as you can.

And TBH even though a lot of the band we play with (and indeed ourselves) have a fairly "energetic" on-stage presence, everyone is pleasant and helpful when it comes to making sure that the evening goes well for both those playing and those listening.

[arthurhenry]

This is the law for shared equipment gigs:
1. Attempts to ascertain the availability of backline/pre-arrange borrowing kit, prove inconclusive.
2. Load your amp into the car and take it to the venue.
3. Arrive at venue to find bass amp is provided and you're happy to use it and go without "your sound," since you'll only be playing for half an hour to three people.
4. To avoid the theft of your amp from your car, you unload it, bring it into the venue and store it at the side of the stage.
5. Play set 90 mins later than agreed.
6. Load amp back out of the venue and into car.
7. Unload amp from car and back into house.
8. Wonder how long you can go on like this.

Edited February 16, 2013 by arthurhenry