JTUK Posted February 19, 2013 Share Posted February 19, 2013 But do you want to have to deal with all that...? If people want to borrow my gear, then they can pay a hire fee and leave a deposit. But, then I can't be bothered with all that either, so avoid at all costs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big_Stu Posted February 19, 2013 Share Posted February 19, 2013 [quote name='flyfisher' timestamp='1361294157' post='1984093']And how difficult is it to remember a few eq settings anyway?[/quote] "Some bloke" had a way around that issue; though I never saw him doing an amp share anyway......... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyfisher Posted February 19, 2013 Share Posted February 19, 2013 (edited) [quote name='JTUK' timestamp='1361294415' post='1984096'] But do you want to have to deal with all that...? If people want to borrow my gear, then they can pay a hire fee and leave a deposit. But, then I can't be bothered with all that either, so avoid at all costs. [/quote] Deal with all what? Re-tweaking a few eq knobs? Still, each to their own, and all that. I'd probably also be annoyed if I was continually lending out my gear but it doesn't seem to happen that often and when it does it's for a good reason and I've borrowed gear about as many times as I've lent it, so it all comes out in the wash. Edited February 19, 2013 by flyfisher Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beer of the Bass Posted February 19, 2013 Share Posted February 19, 2013 My band host a monthly night in a local venue, which is booked and promoted by our drummer, no "promoters" involved. We bring our own backline for this and will happily let the other bands use it, but we go into it knowing what sort of bands we are booking and we've always been in communication with them before the gig. This is the sort of situation where gear sharing works well. I'll usually have a quick chat with whoever is using my kit to check they're aware of how to use it, and because we know who the other bands are we've usually weeded out the egotists and arseholes already. I take a picture of my EQ settings with my phone and put a bit of tape across the top of the amps saying "No Drinks Please!". I've honestly not had a problem at these gigs - it's the other sort where promoters with zero communication skills fling four disparate bands into a room where I've been less happy. For the latter sort of gig, the promoters should really be hiring in backline or using venues that provide house amps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTUK Posted February 19, 2013 Share Posted February 19, 2013 (edited) [quote name='flyfisher' timestamp='1361294939' post='1984103'] Deal with all what? Re-tweaking a few eq knobs? [/quote] Some idiot who hasn't brought kit to perform on, who I don't know from Adam. It is simple as far as I am concerned. If they are on our bill and I don't want them in my set-up space, it might be easier if they used a common rig..and it might have to be mine...it isn't likely to be theirs.... But if it is our bill, and we haven't arrived at this arranagement, then they will have to place their kit around mine and get it off the stage before we go on. If they haven't got any gear, then they aren't likely to be a band we would invite anyway. If it is their bill...I'll make my own arrangements and get my gear on and off if necc. If the stage isn't big enough for all this... we aren't playing the gig anyway, I very much doubt. Edited February 19, 2013 by JTUK Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcnach Posted February 19, 2013 Share Posted February 19, 2013 [quote name='AnalogBomb' timestamp='1361276461' post='1983672'] This scenario is all too common to me.... I've lost count of the times that I have brought all of my gear to gigs (even when we're not headlining) to be asked 'ere mate, can I use your amp?' - this is when my face turns an ashen grey looking colour. [/quote] It annoys me when it's not prearranged. Certain BC member in this thread has played through my amp on one occasion. It was fine, we had previously discussed equipment details and I agreed to provide my amp. I didn't know him yet (well, it turned out he had bought a bass from me before, but I did not recognise him yet ) so I had no particular reason to be nice to him, but he was polite and nice, so I just approached him to ask whether he was familiar with the amp, asked him to please mute before plugging/unplugging (amazing how many people don't care) and to tweak things to will, just not touch a particular memory setting that I had selected for myself. That's fine. When they come up while setting up "oh, can I use your amp?" it really annoys me. Are you really that careless, or you thought "let's wait till another fool does the carrying and bring an amp I can use, and then I can piss off leaving him to tear it all down by himself"? I tend to think most are in the latter category, and I used to feel bad to say no, now I don't really care. I often play last, and my rig does not take ages to set... so when I suspect shenanigans (like, we have asked about amplification and nobody else says anything at all)... I just leave my amp in the car, and decide to set up when we play. I no longer go for those ridiculous early soundchecks 4 hours before your 50min slot... a line check is plenty now. So, if someone findes himself without an amp... tough. When we play before other bands, if arrangements had not been discussed and I agreed to provide my amp, I clearly state on the day that when my band is done, I am taking the amp away. I let other bands use my equipment hundreds of times... but if you are just lazy, or looks to me like you are just lazy, you are going to have to find somebody else. Fortunately these days I very rarely play multiband situations where I don't already know the other band(s), and things normally are pretty smooth. I often offer to bring my amp and let the other band use it because I know I get a good sound and I can hear myself well with my rig, and that's not always the case with others. Like the time I played an outdoor gig with a 30W 10" Gorilla practice amp I put it on a stack of boxes close to ear level... and most of the times I heard nothing... but out there it sounded huge Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcnach Posted February 19, 2013 Share Posted February 19, 2013 [quote name='skoze' timestamp='1361282317' post='1983823'] I'm definitely in the borrowing category at the minute, not out of choice but necessity. We're all students living in a town with no parking, so sorting anything big enough to fit a few rigs plus drums is just not gonna happen. We head up to shows in London a few times a month on the train, and while that's not too bad in itself it'd be physically impossible to carry a decent sized cab along with all the instruments, matey's guitar amp, a bunch of cymbals, snare etc between three of us. I do like to think i'm pretty well mannered with it though, even if i've heard the promoter mention an amp available i'll always chase it up with either the band lending it, or the venue whose in-house gear it is. Similarly, if i turn up and am greeted with something i've never used/ seen before i'll chat to whoever's it is and make sure i'm in no danger of messing with anything. My guitarist majorly pissed me off when we supported a pretty well-established band recently and he refused to lend out his amp, even though it was a local show and we were bringing our own gear anyway. I think that stemmed more from the promoter being like "yeah, they're using your gear alright mate?" rather than asking but still, much un-needed friction. As for anyone turning up expecting to borrow leads, straps, pedals or my entire f***ing set up bass included, without even contemplating mentioning it first, i think i'd laugh them out of the venue. If someone had some gear issues or snapped a string mid-set or something, though, i'd be the first to offer my bass to them. I guess it's just a matter of how you go about doing things. [/quote] Your last sentence just about sums it for me. I have to say I'd be like your guitarist if a "promoter" just "tells me" that he has given permission to others to use my amp. Again, it's about how people go about doing things. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyfisher Posted February 19, 2013 Share Posted February 19, 2013 [quote name='mcnach' timestamp='1361301607' post='1984240'] It annoys me when it's not prearranged. [/quote] I agree. It's never nice being taken for granted. But I've never come across such a thing in a multi-band gig. Discussion about gear has always happened beforehand so that everyone knows what's happening ahead of time. So, no surprises and no big deal. I've never known anyone to share an instrument though (apart from drums, and then never snares or cymbals). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcnach Posted February 19, 2013 Share Posted February 19, 2013 [quote name='flyfisher' timestamp='1361294157' post='1984093'] Interesting comments. I can understand musicians getting all precious about their actual instruments but amps and cabs? They're just amps and cabs and not exactly delicate are they? And how difficult is it to remember a few eq settings anyway? Prima donnas might be a bit strong . . . but not by much. [/quote] you got it all wrong: the prima donna is the guy who shows up without having arranged anything, fully expecting to use somebody else's equipment that said somebody else had to carry to the venue and then back out again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyfisher Posted February 19, 2013 Share Posted February 19, 2013 (edited) Fair point. They sound just as bad as the kids who won't let the other kids use their football. Good job the sound guy lets all the bands use his PA system. Edited February 19, 2013 by flyfisher Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcnach Posted February 19, 2013 Share Posted February 19, 2013 [quote name='flyfisher' timestamp='1361302809' post='1984280'] I agree. It's never nice being taken for granted. But I've never come across such a thing in a multi-band gig. Discussion about gear has always happened beforehand so that everyone knows what's happening ahead of time. So, no surprises and no big deal. I've never known anyone to share an instrument though (apart from drums, and then never snares or cymbals). [/quote] Oh, I've seen it. Three bands. Right in town, awkward access, so it helps if we all share, right? We agree to the drum kit, and we need three guitar amps, two of which we are bringing and we will use another band's guitar amp. You'd think it's not much to ask for someone else to bring a bass amp... but there was no discussion. We asked, several times... nobody said anything. All we got is "I'll ask my bass player and we'll let you know"... then nothing. The other band never said anything. So, do you think I'm going to show up early to set up for them? Two bands' bassists went through the PA that night. I played dumb "oh, nobody replied so we assumed you guys were bringing your own stuff and not sharing, so I just brought my things and left them in the car so that it would not get too cluttered on stage... I'm sure you will sound just fine through the PA directly and the sound guy will give you enough bass on your monitor, oh yeah" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcnach Posted February 19, 2013 Share Posted February 19, 2013 [quote name='flyfisher' timestamp='1361303328' post='1984302'] Fair point. They sound just as bad as the kids who won't let the other kids use their football. Good job the sound guy lets all the bands use his PA system. [/quote] which is *prearranged* or don't you ask? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyfisher Posted February 19, 2013 Share Posted February 19, 2013 Touch[font=Arial]é[/font] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
51m0n Posted February 19, 2013 Share Posted February 19, 2013 [quote name='flyfisher' timestamp='1361294157' post='1984093'] Interesting comments. I can understand musicians getting all precious about their actual instruments but amps and cabs? They're just amps and cabs and not exactly delicate are they? And how difficult is it to remember a few eq settings anyway? Prima donnas might be a bit strong . . . but not by much. [/quote] Crikey you must be utterly awash with dosh - 'just amps and cabs'? How about you lend me a couple of grand and then some, its just money! You seem to have ignored the tales on here from people who have had rigs damaged by ignorant morons who claim to know what tehy are doing? At the very least thats expensive to fix, in my case it would be pretty disastrous, I'm not sure I can get ae410 cones anymore, not since Jim B stopped making them (they are non-standard cones specifically for this cab). Amps are breakable, bad things happen, people do dumb stuff with drinks etc. Cabs are breakable, stupid people do stupid things with gains and volumes and EQ and effects that eventually wreck the cones, tweeters or crossovers or whatever. Bad things do happen. If this kit is expensive or hard to replace why would you risk it for some oik who hasnt the decency to attempt arrange anything up front, thus letting you spell it out nicely for them? If someone is desperate for a rig and makes that clear up front, I bring along an Eden Nemesis 40 watt practice amp, they can stick it right up high and keep their head a couple of inches from it, its surprisingly punchy for only 40watts, and can be heard over a drum kit up to a few feet away. If they dont like it, its not my problem now is it? [quote name='flyfisher' timestamp='1361303328' post='1984302'] Fair point. They sound just as bad as the kids who won't let the other kids use their football. Good job the sound guy lets all the bands use his PA system. [/quote] Nope, now you're sounding more than a little bit simple , the sound guy gets paid for his time and the use of his rig (and his pay will cover the damage his rig will get or he wont be in business for long). I will hire my rig out too, to anyone with enough cash to pay for the hire, and a deposit of my choosing, they must use the rig in the manner in which I tell them it may be used. If they don't stick to the rules, or anything [i]I[/i] consider bad happens to my rig, I keep the deposit. Would that sound OK? By the way the deposit in this case is four grand cash in my hand there and then, the hire charge is one hundred pounds an hour, including transportation time and setup time and waiting around for our chance of glory time. If thats too rich, then sort your own rig out.... Crikey, I had a rig that could gig within a few months of picking up bass, and I worked the worst job in the world for about £1.60 an hour at the time, it was second hand, very old even then (hint to old farts, it lit up green all along the facia when you turned it on - looked very cool in a dead retro kind of a way), heavy as hell, and enormous, but I could hear it over the drums, so it was good enough, and I could fit it in my sh***y Datsun Cherry with the seats down (just). There is no excuse not to have the kit required to gig, unless you dont want to be doing gigs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockfordStone Posted February 19, 2013 Share Posted February 19, 2013 I think a lot of the concern for people is that for every good, careful organised bassist, there are loads that are not. I've had stuff damaged in the past, and with my current rig, if it got damaged I can't afford to fix or replace it in this financial environment and I'm sure others can't either. Most of us are reasonable people who help where we can. But would anyone lend their car or other valuable items to a random person? Course not Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrismuzz Posted February 19, 2013 Share Posted February 19, 2013 Sometimes people will insist you share equipment. I will play through any cabinet, but always bring my own head and pedalboard. The head goes in a bag with all of my leads and tools anyway so I might as well! You can usually get a bright tone out of most cabs with the Markbass F1. I much prefer bringing my entire rig though. I don't mind people sharing my cab because nobody is going to turn up to a gig with an amp that puts out more than 800w at 8 ohms! I prefer if people use their own head, but if they ask to use mine I'm cool with that too. The in-built limiter will stop anything getting knackered. I just tell them to leave the Gain where it is, and if they want to change the tone, to use the filters and leave the EQ flat. I've only ever had one person ignore my requests and they didn't get to play it for very long Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrismuzz Posted February 19, 2013 Share Posted February 19, 2013 [quote name='mcnach' timestamp='1361303751' post='1984317'] *prearranged* [/quote] On that subject: There's a local band here that go by the name of Stone The Alchemist. We've gigged with them 2 or 3 times, and every time we have done, I've been personally contacted by their bass player well before the night to ask me if it's OK to use my Markbass cab. I've rarely had somebody go to these lengths when it comes to preparation and general politeness so I thought I'd "name and shame" haha Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyfisher Posted February 19, 2013 Share Posted February 19, 2013 [quote name='51m0n' timestamp='1361312223' post='1984528'] Nope, now you're sounding more than a little bit simple , [/quote] Well you're the one who missed my smiley Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyfisher Posted February 19, 2013 Share Posted February 19, 2013 [quote name='iceonaboy' timestamp='1361312369' post='1984533'] Have you never had someone put a pint on your amp then? sticky rings of beer on the surface, then the inevitable spill onto your precious electrics. I absolutely detest having some stranger put drink on gear that I have spent my hard earned on. if it doesnt bother you, then i think you are in the minority my friend! [/quote] No. Nobody has ever put a pint on my amp. Of course it would bother me if they did, but they don't. Where are all these moron musicians with no respect? I must be playing the wrong gigs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyfisher Posted February 19, 2013 Share Posted February 19, 2013 [quote name='chrismuzz' timestamp='1361314299' post='1984598'] There's a local band here that go by the name of Stone The Alchemist. We've gigged with them 2 or 3 times, and every time we have done, I've been personally contacted by their bass player well before the night to ask me if it's OK to use my Markbass cab. I've rarely had somebody go to these lengths when it comes to preparation and general politeness so I thought I'd "name and shame" haha [/quote] Yes, that's more like it - in my experience anyway. Funny how everyone here is always banging on about how great the BC community is, but then slags off our fellow bass players as a bunch of gear-destroying morons who can't be trusted with so much as a spare cable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rustyhornpipe Posted February 20, 2013 Share Posted February 20, 2013 I have always been happy to lend my own and use others if it makes things smoother all round. I had a terrible experience in a support slot once where I had my own rig ready but the headline act's bass player insisted I went through his brand spanking ampeg rig so he could hear it in the mix out front. Unfortunately it died after 30 seconds. Felt really terrible, although it was just one of those things. The guy was really cool (if it wasn't under warranty I think he would have died). He ended up using my knackered peavy combo! That said that is the first time I have ever seen any such problems in 10 years. My major beef is our drummer not leaving the room where his drum kit is from set up to finish - even at weddings. He is like Gollum with his 'precious' anyone touch it and its hammer time! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimryan Posted February 20, 2013 Share Posted February 20, 2013 I remember doing a gig a few years ago, turned up, one of the other bands bassist had one of those ashdown micro stacks. As I walked in, got a look that said "you're not using it, it's mine", I the. Proceeded to bring in my then current rig, a Marshall silver jubilee series full stack (I wonder where it is these days, was brought by a "collector" from Bristol), from there on everyone wanted to use that but it wasn't gonna happen. The same night, another band turned up, and their "bassist" was going around the lot asking to borrow a bass as he didn't own one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyfisher Posted February 20, 2013 Share Posted February 20, 2013 And another thing. All those who think that other bassists are not to be trusted with a rig presumably think that all the amps and cabs for sale here have been abused to within an inch of their lives and are therefore not worth buying? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamtheelvy Posted February 20, 2013 Share Posted February 20, 2013 I don't mind sharing a rig with the other bassists on the bill, but I have to object a bit when I'm in a support slot, and the headliners decide that my rig is nicer than theirs... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charic Posted February 20, 2013 Share Posted February 20, 2013 [quote name='flyfisher' timestamp='1361044570' post='1980382'] Apart from physical damage (e.g. drinks spillage etc) what is the actual risk with sharing gear? Assuming you have cabs rated to take the full whack from your amp, what can someone actually do that will cause damage? Surely people don't use stuff that is so delicate? [/quote] Ah but what if your stack can't talk EVERYTHING your amp can throw at it? Or what if they want to use your cab with their amp? Their amp could throw out 2000w and completely blow your cab? What if you play gently and they play hard? With an octaver and a distortion? IMHO it's not worth the hassle or the risk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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