Borrowing The Back Line

[Roland Rock]

[quote name='BigRedX' timestamp='1361042481' post='1980342']
All those saying they don't lend or borrow rigs obviously don't play at the lower end of the originals bands circuit.

For a start most of the time the stage area is tiny with little space left once you've got a drum kit and 2-3 sets of amps up there. Stick another band's amps in front and they are left perched on the edge of the stage. Add a third band and it's simply not going to happen.

Also at a lot of the venues there isn't anywhere off-stage to store gear that isn't being used at the moment.

And when you've got a maximum of 30 minutes turn around time between bands, it's just not practical to swap over more than drum breakables and maybe one guitar amp. No matter how well rehearsed your band are at doing this you have to assume that the band on before will be terrible at getting their stuff off stage.

Remember that it's all about entertaining the audience. You need to get set up and playing as quickly as you can.

And TBH even though a lot of the band we play with (and indeed ourselves) have a fairly "energetic" on-stage presence, everyone is pleasant and helpful when it comes to making sure that the evening goes well for both those playing and those listening.
[/quote]

This is my experience too. Any advantages of refusing to share gear are hugely outweighed by the hassle that this causes imo

[bigjohn]

Yeah, to be honest, though I'd always ask beforehand, or a least make a decent attempt to get in touch with other bands playing on the night, if, like gigs I've played before, there's 3 or 4 bands on and we're going on first or second, in another city, I don't expect to have to take a full rig with me. Similarly when I play with other bands who had to travel and are going on after us, I find it unrealistic to expect them to have brought full rigs and a drum kit. It just doesn't happen. Nor should it.

[flyfisher]

Apart from physical damage (e.g. drinks spillage etc) what is the actual risk with sharing gear?

Assuming you have cabs rated to take the full whack from your amp, what can someone actually do that will cause damage?

Surely people don't use stuff that is so delicate?

[Roland Rock]

[quote name='flyfisher' timestamp='1361044570' post='1980382']
Apart from physical damage (e.g. drinks spillage etc) what is the actual risk with sharing gear?

Assuming you have cabs rated to take the full whack from your amp, what can someone actually do that will cause damage?

Surely people don't use stuff that is so delicate?
[/quote]

Exactly. People seem to be worried about clipping - does this do damage or just sound bad? People can crank the gain as much as they like on mine, it loves it!

On the subject of pre-arranging gear share, Facebook is great for this, just pop a message on their fb page. Much more effective than relying on promoters.

[Jah Wibble]

Lent my amp to the headliners last night.
The venue had a reggae night the night before and their jucy G&K head (maybe the PA!) suffered for it.
I was a bit apprehensive but then met the guy who was gonna use it. A really sound reggae player who'd been around the block more than a few times and had come out from retirement to play with this band, so respect where respect is due.....
I think it's down to who's gonna be using it, I knew that guy wasn't gonna caine it, but I don't think I'd be happy if it was some Motörhead tribute band.
Now that I can afford an amp I'd go with bring your own bloody gear, but you never know when you might need a favour and the days when I couldn't afford an amp wasn't too long ago. Besides the MU's free £2000 insurance gives me sets my mind at ease.
Has anyone ever had to use it?

[RockfordStone]

ive had good and bad experiences.

ive had gear broken and stolen by other bands, so i'm quite precious about my gear now

i did one show where a band had walked on stage and just gone through my amp and he was pushing it to its limit. i wasn't even told it was going to be used, i only found out cos i popped in to the see their set and my amp was being cranked.

if people approach me before hand, more often than not ill lend my cab, but all too often ive turned up to gigs and been expected to provide my whole rig, one band even wanted to use my bass.... im sorry but if you don't bring your own gear and have made no effort to arrange gear then why should us sensible ones be expected to save the day.

ive seen people show some complete disrespect to other peoples gear.

quite frankly i don't like to lend cos i can't afford to replace my rig if someone breaks it, at the same time i couldnt afford to fix someone elses if i broke that, as a result i always take my own amp and cab regardless, and insist on using all my own gear unless its a real pain in the arse

Edited February 16, 2013 by RockfordStone

[baseline9]

Some great stories that I can relate too!

I noticed the thread went into Drumming a bit which reminded me in my old band we once shared drum shells and the other band tuned the tomms downs! our drummer nearly did a Michael Douglas in Falling Down and shot everyone on sight!

I like the idea of taking a DI box for those who dont pre-arrange to use backline!.

Intresting thought on sharing guitar cabs as it happens often on multi band nights. I never throught about the Ohms loading, I'll remind our guitarists to check before using next time.

I think you can damage amps in other ways than by physical means, you can bust valves through not using the standby properly etc..I dont have a valve amp at the moment but something did not like it when that kid cranked my input up to 11 and although it was prob more to do with the PA and the festival equipment it still interrupted the show while they got things up and running again, this prob could of been avoided.

Finally we all just need to get mother fudding world famous then you wont need to share the backline with anyone and you pay people to move it around for you! Living the dream.

Cheers!

Edited February 18, 2013 by baseline9

[Barefootbassplayer]

I tend to go to gigs like these always taking my own amp and generally I am happy for people to use it. I always make sure I meet every bass player who is going to plug into it and give a quick run down as its a bit conveluted. I do ask them not to knob twiddle though. If someone wants their own sound, use your own amp....if you want to borrow mine be happy with the controls on your bass being the only varient. I don't actually think this is pedantic or picky, I think its good manners. Most people have been cool and appreciative, a few have been dicks. If I witness someone pissing around mith my gear despite being asked nicely not too I tend to ask not so nicely once and then suggest a new way of wearing their bass guitar but it has only happened once in years!

It is about being friendly and helpful but that is definitley a two way street, and if someone adamantly says no just remember they have probably got to that point thanks to some inconsiderable git previously!

[bremen]

[quote name='BigRedX' timestamp='1361042481' post='1980342']
All those saying they don't lend or borrow rigs obviously don't play at the lower end of the originals bands circuit.

For a start most of the time the stage area is tiny with little space left once you've got a drum kit and 2-3 sets of amps up there. Stick another band's amps in front and they are left perched on the edge of the stage. Add a third band and it's simply not going to happen.

Also at a lot of the venues there isn't anywhere off-stage to store gear that isn't being used at the moment.

And when you've got a maximum of 30 minutes turn around time between bands, it's just not practical to swap over more than drum breakables and maybe one guitar amp. No matter how well rehearsed your band are at doing this you have to assume that the band on before will be terrible at getting their stuff off stage.

Remember that it's all about entertaining the audience. You need to get set up and playing as quickly as you can.

And TBH even though a lot of the band we play with (and indeed ourselves) have a fairly "energetic" on-stage presence, everyone is pleasant and helpful when it comes to making sure that the evening goes well for both those playing and those listening.
[/quote]

Yeah this is where I'm at. A blanket ban on anyone using my gear would be very unpopular with my bandmates.

[BigRedX]

One of the great things about having a Bass Pod in the rack, is that the other bassists can twiddle to their heart's content (although most of the time they sound great on my default setting and any changes they make generally make it less good), then when we come on I can hit the patch for our opening song and there's my bass sound. No mess no fuss.

[uncle psychosis]

[quote name='BigRedX' timestamp='1361042481' post='1980342']
All those saying they don't lend or borrow rigs obviously don't play at the lower end of the originals bands circuit.

For a start most of the time the stage area is tiny with little space left once you've got a drum kit and 2-3 sets of amps up there. Stick another band's amps in front and they are left perched on the edge of the stage. Add a third band and it's simply not going to happen.

Also at a lot of the venues there isn't anywhere off-stage to store gear that isn't being used at the moment.

And when you've got a maximum of 30 minutes turn around time between bands, it's just not practical to swap over more than drum breakables and maybe one guitar amp. No matter how well rehearsed your band are at doing this you have to assume that the band on before will be terrible at getting their stuff off stage.

Remember that it's all about entertaining the audience. You need to get set up and playing as quickly as you can.

And TBH even though a lot of the band we play with (and indeed ourselves) have a fairly "energetic" on-stage presence, everyone is pleasant and helpful when it comes to making sure that the evening goes well for both those playing and those listening.
[/quote]

+1.

At most of the gigs we've done insisting on using our own gear would have resulted in 1. long delays between bands 2. Pissing off the engineer / promoter and not getting asked back.

However, we always make a point of asking in advance what backline will be available (so we know what we have to bring) and if the promoter is a bit vague about it or says that nothing is provided then we contact the other bands to see what we can arrange.

It probably also helps that both myself and the guitarist have the right bits to plug straight into a PA if we really have to.

[AnalogBomb]

This scenario is all too common to me.... I've lost count of the times that I have brought all of my gear to gigs (even when we're not headlining) to be asked 'ere mate, can I use your amp?' - this is when my face turns an ashen grey looking colour. My main reason's being, I like to think of myself as an easy going, nice guy, who doesn't like to upset people and so I have in the past pretty much said, 'err Ok'. This was until recently. We had a gig at a local club in Bradford and I took my then combo, (Ashdown ABM EVO ii 500) and set it up and for once in it's life, got a decent sound! Then ther other band turns up and all I can describe it as is.... 'Do you want to start a band?' 'OK, I've got some rad tunes and a zany haircut, do you know anyone who plays bass?' 'My mate plays bass, but she's only been playing for 3 months' 'no worries, how hard can it be?!' I think you get where this is going.

So she turns up, doesn't even ask to use the amp, but just plugs in (which annoyed me no end), then has the cheek to say, 'I don't like it, it's not my tone'. I know that, because it's my tone. So she fiddles around with the EQ and then I come to plug in - nothing. Nada. Zilch. Turns out, she'd turned the input level up to max and completely blown the speaker, which cost me £100 to replace. Not good.

I've also literally walked on stage during a guys gig in Leeds once and turned my amp down as it was in the red constantly. I also can't understand how people don't know how to use gear and I know this is a massive bugbear of people on BC! For example, when I had the Ashdown, folks would just plug in and turn the output dial...... and look perplexed when nothing happens! I mean, for me, if I was using another amp, the first thing I'd do is look for a mute button!

I agree that gear share is sometimes necessary, just for ease of transition, but for gods sake, please just ask and I'll talk you through it! I also get that some folks maybe just can't afford to buy a decent rig for whatever reason, but I don't know if anybody else thinks this, but I tend to find that there are people around who if asked, will refer to themself as a 'Bass Player' and people who just play bass cos it's the only way they could get in a band. I class myself as the latter.....

[RockfordStone]

[quote name='AnalogBomb' timestamp='1361276461' post='1983672']
So she turns up, doesn't even ask to use the amp, but just plugs in (which annoyed me no end), then has the cheek to say, 'I don't like it, it's not my tone'. I know that, because it's my tone. So she fiddles around with the EQ and then I come to plug in - nothing. Nada. Zilch. Turns out, she'd turned the input level up to max and completely blown the speaker, which cost me £100 to replace. Not good.
[/quote]

This what enfuriates me most. A lot of times i get contacted pre show and asked by either the promoter or the band in question, But at times people seem to think that because there is an amp there they have the right to use it no questions asked.

the EQ one also bugs me, if you won't bring your own amp, then don't fiddle with mine.

nowadays i walk other bassists to the stage and plug them in and turn them on etc so that all they have to do is play

[Lozz196]

Must admit, I don`t like other people using my amp, and as I said in a previous post, am lucky that our other bassist has a really old TE amp that any needy bassists can use.

However, if we`re not the headline band and someone asks to use our gear we always state we`re leaving straight after we`ve played, so no, not going to be possible. We`re usually not, but at least this way we`re not stuck hanging around for people til midnight/worse, waiting to get our gear.

[JTUK]

Crazy, crazy crazy.

I've done somethings like this in the dim and distant past and there is no way I would put up with it now.
I just couldn't be that desperate to play to put up with half the horrrs here... and I don't think I ever did.

There is gear share ( which the bands might sort out themselves as it suits them) and very quick turnrounds
but the rest of it all makes no sense whatsoever, to me. Even for charity gigs.....where you will have bands on stage all day, they will pay expenses.

I think bands have to take some responsibilty for the conditions they work in...

[skoze]

I'm definitely in the borrowing category at the minute, not out of choice but necessity. We're all students living in a town with no parking, so sorting anything big enough to fit a few rigs plus drums is just not gonna happen. We head up to shows in London a few times a month on the train, and while that's not too bad in itself it'd be physically impossible to carry a decent sized cab along with all the instruments, matey's guitar amp, a bunch of cymbals, snare etc between three of us.

I do like to think i'm pretty well mannered with it though, even if i've heard the promoter mention an amp available i'll always chase it up with either the band lending it, or the venue whose in-house gear it is. Similarly, if i turn up and am greeted with something i've never used/ seen before i'll chat to whoever's it is and make sure i'm in no danger of messing with anything.

My guitarist majorly pissed me off when we supported a pretty well-established band recently and he refused to lend out his amp, even though it was a local show and we were bringing our own gear anyway. I think that stemmed more from the promoter being like "yeah, they're using your gear alright mate?" rather than asking but still, much un-needed friction.

As for anyone turning up expecting to borrow leads, straps, pedals or my entire f***ing set up bass included, without even contemplating mentioning it first, i think i'd laugh them out of the venue.
If someone had some gear issues or snapped a string mid-set or something, though, i'd be the first to offer my bass to them. I guess it's just a matter of how you go about doing things.

Edited February 19, 2013 by skoze

[baseline9]

Just as side point - some of this should be down to the "promoter", venue or whoever is organising the gig. I find too often them putting too many bands on one tiny stage with far differing styles of music so all you get is football crowds coming to see their "team" and then leaving. Surely they would make more money on the door and at the bar if some thought went into the night, themes, music releases, visuals etc.. there are other ways to make money without pillaging every poor band that plays. Having two or three, good like for like bands on is better than mashing four or five together just to rake in some cash.

For the record, these days I shy away from these types of gigs, I'm sure I'm not the only one and that's kind of sad in a way, not doing a gig because you know its going to be organised poorly, but it does happen all too often and I remember its not always been like that!

Sorry I have gone a bit off topic!

Edited February 19, 2013 by baseline9

[KevB]

The absolute worst piece of crap I've ever had to play through was when I depped in a band doing a little charity festival in a village. They had been promised that backline etc was all to be provided, we just turned up with instruments and played. Never again. I noticed the band on after us turned up with all their own backline, think they had played there before

[The Dark Lord]

I once had a "friend of a Facebook friend" contact me out of the blue and ask if I had a spare bass amp/rig as his had blown and he had a few important gigs on the horizon.

After some verifying that he was a straight up honest geezer, from other Facebook person, I lent him a spare Marshall head that I had plus a 1x15 and a 2 x10 cab ....... on the condition that my new band of the time could play support to his band on one of the gigs. All agreed and it was nice to place a 45 min support slot to a 300 or so strong crowd with a soundman, lights, proper stage and house PA.

However, he sets his sound up way different to me ...... he has a sort of clean toppy middly sound, whereas I am a committed deep thumper with a touch of gravel .... and his band's sound man wouldn't let me change the settings on the bloomin amp during the support set. I had to use HIS settings. Very odd since it was my amp.

But hey, set worked out well and everybody was happy. I listen back to the recording of my bass sound with a bit of a cringe factor mind, but what can you do.

[pietruszka]

This is going to side very selfish! But I'm happy to use someone else's amp, but I don't share mine. The reason being is that I like to think I'm professional enough to get a listenable sound out of anything, you work with what is there. Yes not everyone has an amazing amp for you to play through but it's not the end of the world.

I don't share for the same reason as everyone else, however I have a different view on those that can't use the gain properly, or the EQ. Yes it's a pain in the hole when they can't use it, but it's merely down to them not having learnt that knowledge yet. I had no idea how to use the gain/input dials on an amp in my first few years of playing as my combo didn't have it! Could it not also be that a lot of young bassists have stepped over from guitar, and have the guitarist approach of whack it up to 11? After all, turning the gain up on a guitar amp sounds great!
The last time someone else plugged his bass in and wanted the amp louder he turned the gain up and the head clipped to high heaven. I walked over after a track finished and instructed him to "turn the gain down, and the master up".

Now I only share with touring bands I know have a standing reputation. These have included Soul Jazz Orchestra, Elliot Brood, largely as they are from Canada. They were always very grateful and knew how to work the gear. No problems. Otherwise I don't share. At All. I play the insurance card, "I don't mean to be awkward, but my equipment is only insured for my use".

We all had to learn at some stage! But ultimately, ask as MANNERS COST NOTHING!




Dan

[aende]

Manners and care are just what I ask for. I have shared countless guitar amps and borrowed - be courteous and polite, ask about the equipment and how the owner would like you to use it - note down any changed settings - etc etc etc - treat it as though it was your own. It is simple.

I have only had an issue with an alleged 'creative' person using my equipment...I.e. A guy who believed his own ego that he was a great singer/songwriter; someone who basically does not give a sh*t about whose equipment they use or the costs therein and just abuses it without realizing they are abusing it. Because it's all about the music and the world that revolves around them......apparently I should have been thankful that he chose my amp to borrow....c*nt.

[AnalogBomb]

Has anyone ever had anybody move their amp? I lent my amp to a couple of bands at a gig once, went downstairs for a pint, came back up to watch and was like.. eh? I waited until they had finished and asked them 'just what the actual f**k do you think you're doing?' They could tell I wasn't impressed!

I've got no problem lending to folks that I know, as this, for me, really reduces the risk. for example, I know a guy who is a sound lad, great bass player and takes time to learn how to use the gear. If everyone was like him.......

[AnalogBomb]

[quote name='baseline9' timestamp='1361283565' post='1983842']
Just as side point - some of this should be down to the "promoter", venue or whoever is organising the gig. I find too often them putting too many bands on one tiny stage with far differing styles of music so all you get is football crowds coming to see their "team" and then leaving. Surely they would make more money on the door and at the bar if some thought went into the night, themes, music releases, visuals etc.. there are other ways to make money without pillaging every poor band that plays. Having two or three, good like for like bands on is better than mashing four or five together just to rake in some cash.

For the record, these days I shy away from these types of gigs, I'm sure I'm not the only one and that's kind of sad in a way, not doing a gig because you know its going to be organised poorly, but it does happen all too often and I remember its not always been like that!

Sorry I have gone a bit off topic!
[/quote]

Yes to all!

[skoze]

[quote name='iceonaboy' timestamp='1361292373' post='1984057']
Another time, I had to look on helplessly, as a drunken girl fell against my Status bass as it was in its stand.
[/quote]

Had similar at our last gig, sound girl stepped back onto the headstock of my Fender during a very hurried check. My fault for laying it down in front of me on the stage, but still - not a fun thing to watch. Has taught me to [b]always[/b] put it on a stand though!

Edited February 19, 2013 by skoze

[flyfisher]

Interesting comments. I can understand musicians getting all precious about their actual instruments but amps and cabs? They're just amps and cabs and not exactly delicate are they? And how difficult is it to remember a few eq settings anyway? Prima donnas might be a bit strong . . . but not by much.