What is "Phrasing"?

[MiltyG565]

So i often hear the word Phrasing being used when talking about somebodies technical ability or style. I think it's important that i know the definition of the word. I assume that it is something similar to how we would phrase something when we talk- i.e. saying the same thing a different way to put the emphasis on a certain part of the phrase.

Any help here from you theoretical gurus?

[Dad3353]

Good afternoon, Milty...

I'd risk a 'definition' similar to that in grammar; a 'phrase' is a coherent collection which can stand alone. A sentence can be divided into it's phrase components, but a phrase cannot be so 'broken down' without losing it's identity. That, to me, is a 'phrase', in grammar as in music.
Subject to contradiction and/or embellishment; hope this helps.

[MiltyG565]

[quote name='Dad3353' timestamp='1361030226' post='1980046']
Good afternoon, Milty...

I'd risk a 'definition' similar to that in grammar; a 'phrase' is a coherent collection which can stand alone. A sentence can be divided into it's phrase components, but a phrase cannot be so 'broken down' without losing it's identity. That, to me, is a 'phrase', in grammar as in music.
Subject to contradiction and/or embellishment; hope this helps.
[/quote]

So a note that can be heard without any of the other notes that go along with it, without loosing it's characteristic?

I'm afraid i'll need more clarification than that

[Dad3353]

Sorry, Milty, I'd forgotten that you're from Ireland (albeit the North...)

Try here...

[url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phrase_%28music%29"]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phrase_%28music%29[/url]

...it may help you more.

[MiltyG565]

[quote name='Dad3353' timestamp='1361033655' post='1980126']
Sorry, Milty, I'd forgotten that you're from Ireland (albeit the North...)
[/quote]


"Go mall FFS, i'm irish!"

Edited February 16, 2013 by MiltyG565

[gjones]

My definition is the same as yours. The same notes played by different players can sound very different.

[Bilbo]

It's one those magic ingredients that distinguishes a great player from a good one. Your own definition is as good as any I have seen. It's the art over the exercise, the intention over the words, the emotion in content as opposed to the content alone. It's the difference between you and me.

[fatback]

I've heard the great Rabbath say that all good music is made up of questions and answers. I'm finding that a helpful way to think of some aspects of phrasing.

[Zenitram]

Yes. Tension and resolution.

[MiltyG565]

Ok, it's getting vague again...

[Zenitram]

What I understood from the explanations above is that it's the how not the what.

But I don't know if that's right.

[Bilbo]

It's as right as ninepence.....

[Elvis Valentine]

I think the definition is a good one but i think its probably easier to make an example of two singers singing the same song.
For example Bonnie Prince Billy - i see a darkness compared with Johnny Cash's version.
Frank Sinatra thought that Willie Nelson was the greatest with his phrasing.

[MiltyG565]

[quote name='Elvis Valentine' timestamp='1361205007' post='1982723']
I think the definition is a good one but i think its probably easier to make an example of two singers singing the same song.
For example Bonnie Prince Billy - i see a darkness compared with Johnny Cash's version.
Frank Sinatra thought that Willie Nelson was the greatest with his phrasing.
[/quote]

This is a great analogy! Thanks. I instantly thought of this when i read that - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YgRYzZlqAHM

[lobematt]

Check this out! http://jazzadvice.com/thinking-about-musical-phrasing-for-improvisation/

[GonzoBass]

You might compare phrasing in music to phasing in conversation,
especially since both are forms of communication.

Basically, it's the delivery, length of, and pause between, your ideas.


Consider the difference between listening to some overexcited, highly caffeinated chatterbox
rambling full speed ahead using run on sentences,
who won't let you get a word in edgewise
(Kenny G and certain guitarists come to mind)
and the deliberately paced reading of a poem,
with it's dramatic pauses strategically placed for you to take a moment and consider the image being conveyed.


Musically, you could include such techniques as;

- Call and response/tension and release when coupling your phrases within a solo
(ending one phrase on a high or tension note
and then resolving to a lower or root note in your next phrase).

- Either using longer notes to begin a solo or starting with a fast phrase.

- The tension of ascending as opposed to descending phrases.

- Separating your phrases, whether it being with a slight pause or a longer pause for effect.

- Varying the volume and dynamics within or between phrases.


The beauty of music is that the possibilities are quite endless and only limited by your imagination.


Not to discredit guitarists as a lot here
(you can almost [u]hear[/u] Stevie Ray Vaughn breath between phases during "Riviera Paradise"!)
but I'd suggest listening to and reading horn lines for better examples of phrasing
(look where the rests are and their duration),
simply because horn players (cyclical breathing aside) [b][i]have[/i][/b] to breathe between their ideas,
which makes their melodies much more lyrical in thier delivery.

I hope this helps.

[xilddx]

[quote name='GonzoBass' timestamp='1361227650' post='1983297']
You might compare phrasing in music to phasing in conversation,
especially since both are forms of communication.

Basically, it's the delivery, length of, and pause between, your ideas.


Consider the difference between listening to some overexcited, highly caffeinated chatterbox
rambling full speed ahead using run on sentences,
who won't let you get a word in edgewise
(Kenny G and certain guitarists come to mind)
and the deliberately paced reading of a poem,
with it's dramatic pauses strategically placed for you to take a moment and consider the image being conveyed.


Musically, you could include such techniques as;

- Call and response/tension and release when coupling your phrases within a solo
(ending one phrase on a high or tension note
and then resolving to a lower or root note in your next phrase).

- Either using longer notes to begin a solo or starting with a fast phrase.

- The tension of ascending as opposed to descending phrases.

- Separating your phrases, whether it being with a slight pause or a longer pause for effect.

- Varying the volume and dynamics within or between phrases.


The beauty of music is that the possibilities are quite endless and only limited by your imagination.


Not to discredit guitarists as a lot here
(you can almost [u]hear[/u] Stevie Ray Vaughn breath between phases during "Riviera Paradise"!)
but I'd suggest listening to and reading horn lines for better examples of phrasing
(look where the rests are and their duration),
simply because horn players (cyclical breathing aside) [b][i]have[/i][/b] to breathe between their ideas,
which makes their melodies much more lyrical in thier delivery.

I hope this helps.
[/quote]

I like this post

[SteveK]

Listen to how Frank Sinatra sings well known songs, and how they differ from the original... that's 'phrasing', that is.

[MiltyG565]

[quote name='SteveK' timestamp='1362498997' post='2000214']
Listen to how Frank Sinatra sings well known songs, and how they differ from the original... that's 'phrasing', that is.
[/quote]

Cheers!

[Wylie]

[quote name='xilddx' timestamp='1362403189' post='1999176']
I like this post
[/quote]

Me too! Thanks, Gonzo.

W.

[basexperience]

Another +1 for gonzo here. That was quite a well phrased post.

[Lfalex v1.1]

[quote name='SteveK' timestamp='1362498997' post='2000214']
Listen to how Frank Sinatra sings well known songs, and how they differ from the original... that's 'phrasing', that is.
[/quote]

Or remember how the cylons in the original Battlestar Galactica spoke? Monotonous, without inflection or emotion?
That's a complete lack of phrasing!

[Phil Starr]

Great question particularly as I argued with my drummist about not giving me space to phrase properly a couple of days ago. Sudden panic that I didn't know what it meant. For me it is about the emphasis you place on certain notes and the slight pauses and early entries you make when playing. The bits that you can't quite write down in music notation. Nervously I looked it up...

[b]Phrasing[/b][color=#000000][font=sans-serif][size=3] refers to an expressive shaping of music, and relates to the shaping of notes in time. Phrasing relates to the manner of playing the individual notes of a particular group of [/size][/font][/color][i]consecutive[/i][color=#000000][font=sans-serif][size=3] notes; and the way they are weighted and shaped relative to one another. It does not refer to the idealised [/size][/font][/color][url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Note_value"]note values/durations[/url][color=#000000][font=sans-serif][size=3] as represented in sheet music; but to the multitude of deviations that the performer needs to make from sheet music, if a performance is to be expressive, in a particular style and culturally aware. An example may be an acceleration of a group of notes, but there are many more. This shaping of notes is creatively performed by the musician with the aim of expressing (feelings), and can be distinguished by the listener - not only factually, but in music, as emotional expression.[/size][/font][/color]


[color=#000000][font=sans-serif][size=3] :)Phew[/size][/font][/color][color=#000000][font=sans-serif][size=3] [/size][/font][/color]

Edited April 8, 2013 by Phil Starr

[SteveO]

+1 to Gonzo's explination. When writing I find it useful to sing the part, and write in rests where breaths naturally occur, even for percussion parts. Its a great tool when you're trying to impart emotion into a piece. for example the pauses when shouting the part or singing it softly are quite different, and the same notes in the same order can take on entirely different characters.

[Phil Starr]

It's one of those irregular verbs possibly:

bassists think it is expressing yourself within the rhythm
Guitarists think it is expressing yourself without any rhythm
Drummers think phrasing is for cissies