Has 24 Hour Drinking Affected the Live Music Scene?

[D.I. Joe]

I think the most frustrating thing about the smoking ban, especially in the summer, is that smokers and their friends tend to stay outside and often they can hear and enjoy the music outside, but at the cost of our atmosphere inside! As long as smokers are buying drinks then surely venues aren't too badly affected?

[fumps]

I am not in a band so I now can only post as a punter.

I used to go to the local & out to other venues to actively watch bands, I was happy to meet up with friends & would sometimes drop a text to a mate asking where they were & give them a heads up about a band I maybe watching when they were playing.....I was always out doing this every weekend.

Then things changed in a short space of time, the live scene seemed to slow down then the beer got expensive, the smoking ban moved all the people I know outside so I now never see live bands.
Nowadays my idea of a night is to stay in for a few cans, nip down to the local bar that will often have bands on, watch what they are like for the end of their set & then go home to carry on drinking. It's not that I want to stay home but I have to cut my cloth to my pocket. I do like a drink but really my mortagage comes first. Whats more pretty much everyone else i know does the same. The bar staff say that the pub has a busy hour between 10pm to 11pm nowadays so i know I'm not the only one.

It really is a shame as I love watching live bands but I simply cannot afford the beer prices.

Seems like an odd thing to add but I'm hoping for the live music scene may get better with the advent of the e-cigarette

Edited February 19, 2013 by fumps

[Big_Stu]

From talking to a few land-lords, the ones that are tied to a brewery are hammered with drink costs, the profit margin is minimal so to get a return they go for cheapest option with entertainment. Locally to me that's either discos or tribute acts to a backing tape. The smoking ban has had little effect compared to the prices of beer they're obliged to buy.
I've lost count of the number of recent times I've seen "live music" advertised & it's more or less kareoke, but with one singer doing their favourite songs to a tape.
The ones that are free-houses are mostly real-ale places, which don't have the clientele for most live bands, one near me does have a folk night most Fridays - I now have a stock of cable-knit cardigans, the beard's coming along nicely too.

The only pub near me that regularly did live bands has just closed, & is being taken over by a gastro-pub chain.

[BigRedX]

From what is being said in this thread the bands that are being affected are the one's whose audience is one that just wants to hear some music (maybe played live) as opposed to bands whose audience goes specifically to see them. If your band has a USP - original and memorable music or a live performance worth watching, then from what I've seen there are still gigs and audiences waiting for you. If you just play some tunes, then maybe not so much.

As for the smoking ban, I think people will slowly got over it. If you give the audience something worth actually watching and don't go on for too long the nicotine addicts can plan their fix sessions around your set. TBH I can't imagine why anyone would even consider taking up smoking in the current economic and social climate. give it some more years and I doubt it will be an issue worth getting bothered about.

[JTUK]

[quote name='fumps' timestamp='1361275263' post='1983630']
I am not in a band so I now can only post as a punter.

I used to go to the local & out to other venues to actively watch bands, I was happy to meet up with friends & would sometimes drop a text to a mate asking where they were & give them a heads up about a band I maybe watching when they were playing.....I was always out doing this every weekend.

Then things changed in a short space of time, the live scene seemed to slow down then the beer got expensive, the smoking ban moved all the people I know outside so I now never see live bands.
Nowadays my idea of a night is to stay in for a few cans, nip down to the local bar that will often have bands on, watch what they are like for the end of their set & then go home to carry on drinking. It's not that I want to stay home but I have to cut my cloth to my pocket. I do like a drink but really my mortagage comes first. Whats more pretty much everyone else i know does the same. The bar staff say that the pub has a busy hour between 10pm to 11pm nowadays so i know I'm not the only one.

It really is a shame as I love watching live bands but I simply cannot afford the beer prices.

Seems like an odd thing to add but I'm hoping for the live music scene may get better with the advent of the e-cigarette
[/quote]

See..this is why I would make drink more expensive outside of pubs and venues.
People don't go out anymore as it is cheaper to drink at home. This hurts the pub trade and in turn the economy.
Cheap booze from supermarkets make this possible. It is also the reason why dumping Duty free was a bad idea.
That little ruse subsidised so many trades...pub, cross channel, brewery etc etc ..and had a positive knock-on.
I think it is a fair trade for cheap booze, longer licensing and the social costs that come thereafter.

Pub band costs have stayed pretty mucgh the same for the vast majority of gigs for the last 15 or so years, IME..
The reason is supply and demand, IMV.
Any pub can easily put on music for small numbers and they do this to turn over beer. The scene gets stale
as too many bands flood an area. I know bands that play all month in the same town and never venture
further afield...

I am a great believer in doing things properly in this regard..so that means a venue needs to have costed up the electrical install for the LIcense,
have a good rosta of the better bands..and by better, I mean best draws, and therefore get people in to watch.
I find there are enough people who will go out and watch bands, but they are spread too thin in some towns as there can be 8-9 venues doing music that night.

Too many bands and too few working venues forces rates down..
No wonder bands don't target pubs as their main gig... not enough money for the work.

[Dave Vader]

[quote name='fumps' timestamp='1361275263' post='1983630']
I do like a drink but really my mortagage comes first.


Seems like an odd thing to add but I'm hoping for the live music scene may get better with the advent of the e-cigarette
[/quote]

I would like a mortgage but the drink comes first

And the e-cigarette is a wonderful thing, it has made my life a billion times better. I dont mind taking it outside (and a lot of places really don't get it yet) but it is lovely to be back propping up the bar with a drink in one hand and a "fag" in the other.

[BigRedX]

I must be lucky in that there was a long time in the 80s when I had almost no money but still went to as many gigs as possible, so I don't have that "see a band, must have a drink" hardwired into me. At some of the larger gigs I've been to in more recent times, getting to the bar has simply been too much hassle once I've actually found somewhere I can see the stage from, so I just haven't bothered. Besides, I'm there for the music. The alcohol is of very secondary importance.

[discreet]

[quote name='Dave Vader' timestamp='1361285607' post='1983901']
...the e-cigarette is a wonderful thing, it has made my life a billion times better. I don't mind taking it outside (and a lot of places really don't get it yet) but it is lovely to be back propping up the bar with a drink in one hand and a "fag" in the other.
[/quote]

So true. But the joy nazis are trying to get e-fags banned in public because 'it looks like smoking' and would apparently corrupt weak-willed teenagers and make them smoke real fags for some reason. Which is patently ridiculous - they're too busy huffing glue.

[url="http://www.vapestick.co.uk/e-cigs-banned.html"]http://www.vapestick...igs-banned.html[/url]

Edited February 19, 2013 by discreet

[fumps]

[quote name='Dave Vader' timestamp='1361285607' post='1983901']
I would like a mortgage but the drink comes first

And the e-cigarette is a wonderful thing, it has made my life a billion times better. I dont mind taking it outside (and a lot of places really don't get it yet) but it is lovely to be back propping up the bar with a drink in one hand and a "fag" in the other.
[/quote]
Yeh I know a few smokers that are happy to have these, if they can use them inside then you will get a crowd again, a prime example is my local, more often than not you will be sat outside with the smokers & dog owners all sat having a laugh & a good giggle. you will be aware that a band is playing inside but all your mates are sat out. you nip in to get a pint & notice there is about 20 people sat indoors & about 50 outside.
The band look a little bemused to say the least & I feel for bands playing live, it's crap for them.

I will often walk down to the pub & see people we know outside, so it's a "hello" & "Hows it going" chat. then you get a place, nip in to buy a drink & that's it your planted for your pub visit. In my experience the smoking ban has really separated the pub goers especially when you consider that most people who do what we do, only nip down there for a few, that means you find that the crowd comes down, sits outside for a bit & then as often happens leaves before the off licence shuts, in our case with some of the people who are down there in tow who fancy coming up to ours.

[urb]

I'm curious to know of anyone's experiences going to gigs in cities compared to those in more regional parts, or small town/countryside venues... things in London tick over quite nicely - I'm not out gigging a lot but the pros I know always seem busy with a half-decent amount of gigs to play - when they're not on tour with a pop artist/covers production (i.e. Thriller show) - but with the Bull & Gate closing I can only imagine things aren't too great on the rock/indie circuit... I know how tough it is because I tried it years ago - at least with Jazz gigs you tend to get a fee agreed up front... sometimes if it's a good night and it's a door split - you can go home with a bit more dosh in your pocket...

Edited February 19, 2013 by urb

[Dave Vader]

[quote name='discreet' timestamp='1361286461' post='1983921']
So true. But the joy nazis are trying to get e-fags banned in public because 'it looks like smoking' and would apparently corrupt weak-willed teenagers and make them smoke real fags for some reason. Which is patently ridiculous - they're too busy huffing glue.

[url="http://www.vapestick.co.uk/e-cigs-banned.html"]http://www.vapestick...igs-banned.html[/url]
[/quote]

True, we are clearly weak addicts and this is much too easy a solution and will stop too many people from actually dying.
But what can you do?
This...

http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/legislation-news/368593-eu-draft-tobacco-products-directive-who-write-what-say-short-guide.html

I wish to ban diabetics from shooting up in public, as it makes me and everyone I know want to get &^$%ed up on skag.

[icastle]

[quote name='BigRedX' timestamp='1361281713' post='1983810']
If you give the audience something worth actually watching and don't go on for too long the nicotine addicts can plan their fix sessions around your set. [/quote]

To hell with that.

I'm not changing the set just to accommodate smokers habits.






When I want a fag then we stop...

[icastle]

[quote name='Dave Vader' timestamp='1361290250' post='1984005']
I wish to ban diabetics from shooting up in public, as it makes me and everyone I know want to get &^$%ed up on skag.

[/quote]

Absolutely hate it when people do that, there's no need for it at all.

[discreet]

[quote name='icastle' timestamp='1361299751' post='1984198']
Absolutely hate it when people do that, there's no need for it at all.
[/quote]

Yes, and when I see women breast-feeding in public it makes me want to have a go on their teats. How dare they!

[discreet]

[quote name='Dave Vader' timestamp='1361290250' post='1984005']
But what can you do? This... [url="http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/legislation-news/368593-eu-draft-tobacco-products-directive-who-write-what-say-short-guide.html"]http://www.e-cigaret...hort-guide.html[/url]
[/quote]

Thanks for the link Dave, I'm certainly going to write to my MP - Jim Dowd. I do actually get replies from the man, so you never know.

[Dave Vader]

[quote name='discreet' timestamp='1361301883' post='1984245']
Thanks for the link Dave, I'm certainly going to write to my MP - Jim Dowd. I do actually get replies from the man, so you never know.
[/quote]

Hooray, no worries, I got myself onto a couple of ecig forums, and having resisted GAS on here for many years, I have now spent a fortune on shiny things that I can vape.
Bugger....

[BigRedX]

[quote name='urb' timestamp='1361289988' post='1983998']
I'm curious to know of anyone's experiences going to gigs in cities compared to those in more regional parts, or small town/countryside venues... things in London tick over quite nicely - I'm not out gigging a lot but the pros I know always seem busy with a half-decent amount of gigs to play - when they're not on tour with a pop artist/covers production (i.e. Thriller show) - but with the Bull & Gate closing I can only imagine things aren't too great on the rock/indie circuit... I know how tough it is because I tried it years ago - at least with Jazz gigs you tend to get a fee agreed up front... sometimes if it's a good night and it's a door split - you can go home with a bit more dosh in your pocket...
[/quote]

All the cities we play seem to have a decent number of venues for originals bands. Although it seems to help being part of several very active niche scenes when it comes to getting worthwhile gigs.

For Nottingham, the place I'm most familiar with having lived and gig here for over 30 years now, the current scene is way better at the moment compared with what it used to be like.

Certainly when I first started playing here in the early 80s there were only a handful of venues for local bands at any one time. Most only put on live music one night during the week, and the only weekend gig available was supporting Pinski Zoo at the Hearty Goodfellow on their Friday night residency. None of the venues had their own PA system so you had to hire one and figure that into your costs. All the gigs were strictly 10.30 finish, apart from the Ad-Lib which ran from 10.00 until 2.00.

If you wanted a gig you basically had to do all the legwork yourself, trying to persuade the landlord that your band's demo was worth a listen and that you could pull in big enough audience to make it worth their while putting you on. You either got £35 for the whole evening (nearly all of which went on hiring the PA and printing posters) or you took money on the door and a bit of a gamble. There was never any kind of band rider/free beer. Other than that, there was the Nottingham Music Combine which put on about 4 gigs a year, or if you had the correct band politics you could play one of the Socialist or Anarchist fundraising events for free. And that was pretty much it.

Nowadays there's at least 10 venues in the city centre putting on live music by local originals bands on several nights a week and plenty of weekend gigs available. Everywhere has an in-house PA with an engineer. Lots of the gigs pay, and at the worst you'll get a few free beers for each band member. Most of the time all you need to do is tell your fans on Facebook etc. when your gig is and then turn up and play. Overall the music scene here is healthier now than at any other time I can remember.

[onemanband]

Hi,
Although I play bass for fun, I've been making a living playing pubs, clubs, hotels etc. for the last 35 years (solo acoustic guitar) and the attendances have certainly dropped in the last few years.
I think the smoking ban has had the most effect, but that's something I applaud as three years ago, I was treated for throat cancer, probably as a result of working in smokey atmospheres and I wouldn't wish that on anyone!!
The cost of drinks, big screen football, cheap curry's and booze available from supermarkets, the latest films available on cable TV have made staying in the new "going out" and all this has contributed to a declining appetite for live music.
Licensees have to make a crust, so they open longer hours and as a result I have found my playing times set back to accommodate these late night revellers, most of whom are pissed up by that time anyway!!
Ooh for the old days

Edited February 20, 2013 by onemanband