stingrayPete1977 Posted February 17, 2013 Share Posted February 17, 2013 As a fairly novice reader I have just been using my new found skill to read Chaka Khan Aint Nobody for our function band and as its in F# major the E is sharp, ten years ago I would of doubted its existence even though I had probably been playing them, This was the first time I have ever conciously played E# Doddy will be proud next time I see him Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arthurhenry Posted February 17, 2013 Share Posted February 17, 2013 For F's sake... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
discreet Posted February 17, 2013 Share Posted February 17, 2013 (edited) [quote name='arthurhenry' timestamp='1361124814' post='1981431'] For F's sake... [/quote] Ha ha, yes. I just play F instead, it's a lot easier. Edit: Unless I'm feeling ill-tempered, obviously... Edited February 17, 2013 by discreet Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stingrayPete1977 Posted February 17, 2013 Author Share Posted February 17, 2013 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stingrayPete1977 Posted February 17, 2013 Author Share Posted February 17, 2013 Still no idea where the double sharp (E##) comes in but I will look for the next 25 years Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
discreet Posted February 17, 2013 Share Posted February 17, 2013 [quote name='stingrayPete1977' timestamp='1361125017' post='1981440'] Still no idea where the double sharp (E##) comes in but I will look for the next 25 years [/quote] I think that's only for double bass. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stingrayPete1977 Posted February 17, 2013 Author Share Posted February 17, 2013 [quote name='discreet' timestamp='1361125721' post='1981463'] I think that's only for double bass. [/quote] Well I have one of those and have made some funny noises with it, maybe one of them was it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Myke Posted February 17, 2013 Share Posted February 17, 2013 Not played that one but the other day I played Cb Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chardbass Posted February 17, 2013 Share Posted February 17, 2013 I prefer to read in Gb when it comes to the loadsa accidentals key sigs- I find Cbs easier to read Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
discreet Posted February 17, 2013 Share Posted February 17, 2013 [quote name='Myke' timestamp='1361131354' post='1981620'] Not played that one but the other day I played Cb [/quote] Oh, that Cb can be a right B******. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Myke Posted February 17, 2013 Share Posted February 17, 2013 [quote name='chardbass' timestamp='1361131459' post='1981625'] I prefer to read in Gb when it comes to the loadsa accidentals key sigs- I find Cbs easier to read [/quote] Really? I kept reading it as C as it's on the line but tbh, I'm only getting started with the reading thing so that doesn't surprise me [quote name='discreet' timestamp='1361131460' post='1981626'] Oh, that Cb can be a right B******. [/quote] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lowdowner Posted February 17, 2013 Share Posted February 17, 2013 Look up 'even tempered scale' to see why E# *isn't* an F. On unfretted instrument, E# is *sharper* than an F in the same way that Fb is slightly flatter than an E (though not by much). Quite how you express this with frets is a whole world of zen-madness Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
discreet Posted February 17, 2013 Share Posted February 17, 2013 [quote name='lowdowner' timestamp='1361131698' post='1981640'] Quite how you express this with frets is a whole world of zen-madness [/quote] Or a piano... or a trumpet... Anyone been watching the Howard Goodall music series? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lowdowner Posted February 17, 2013 Share Posted February 17, 2013 Trumpets shouldn't be so bad surely? Just bend the note with less 'blow'? On a flute it's possible to bend a note by up to a quarter tone with mouth (embouchure) and breath support alone. Is trumpet the same? Mind you, Miles Davis seemed gloriously flat most of the time anyway, so who would know... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
discreet Posted February 17, 2013 Share Posted February 17, 2013 [quote name='lowdowner' timestamp='1361131698' post='1981640'] Look up 'even tempered scale' to see why E# *isn't* an F. [/quote] The whole crux of my feeble 'joke' in post #3. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lowdowner Posted February 17, 2013 Share Posted February 17, 2013 [quote name='discreet' timestamp='1361131967' post='1981651'] The whole crux of my feeble 'joke' in post #3. [/quote] Oh yes, just re-read it... very droll! (seriously though, that was quite clever! ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete.young Posted February 17, 2013 Share Posted February 17, 2013 [quote name='stingrayPete1977' timestamp='1361125017' post='1981440'] Still no idea where the double sharp (E##) comes in but I will look for the next 25 years [/quote] Aint Nobody is in the relative minor of F#, which is D# minor. Since you already have an F# and a D#. and according to some arcane rule of musical theory you're only allowed to use each letter once, you end up with E## rather than F . If you want to call it F, you'll have to play it in Eb minor instead. Given the above, you can understand the modern fashion which is to write everything in the 'home' key of C and label each and every accidental. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lowdowner Posted February 17, 2013 Share Posted February 17, 2013 [quote name='pete.young' timestamp='1361133116' post='1981674'] If you want to call it F, you'll have to play it in Eb minor instead. Given the above, you can understand the modern fashion which is to write everything in the 'home' key of C and label each and every accidental. [/quote] No point in 'calling it F' it *isn't F - you can't just swap D# minor for Eb minor, they aint the same thing... the 'C and label each and every accidental' is just a hopeless modern monstrosity - Beethoven wrote The Eroica in Eb maj because he knew the orchestra would play it with the 'feel' of Eb maj - it's an important thing to give a 'feel' and not leave the musicians in a modern 'do what you think is right' musically moral vacuum. p.s. I've had a glass or two of falling down juice, I'm not usually this uptight about keys! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stingrayPete1977 Posted February 17, 2013 Author Share Posted February 17, 2013 (edited) All my brain cells got used on reading ain't nobody and understanding that I had finally found an E#, the double sharps will have to wait Edited February 17, 2013 by stingrayPete1977 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete.young Posted February 17, 2013 Share Posted February 17, 2013 [quote name='lowdowner' timestamp='1361134177' post='1981700'] No point in 'calling it F' it *isn't F - you can't just swap D# minor for Eb minor, they aint the same thing... [/quote] In this modern tempered world that the rest of us live in, it is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimR Posted February 17, 2013 Share Posted February 17, 2013 [quote name='pete.young' timestamp='1361133116' post='1981674'] ... Since you already have an F# and a D#. and according to some arcane rule of musical theory you're only allowed to use each letter once, you end up with E## rather than F . ... [/quote] Nope E## is F#. Typo? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimR Posted February 17, 2013 Share Posted February 17, 2013 Life can sometimes get a bit short to be pedantic. Arguing with a guitarist that the run is E F# G# A and not E F# Ab A is not always a productive use of practice time. Shrug play the notes and move on Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lojo Posted February 18, 2013 Share Posted February 18, 2013 (edited) [quote name='TimR' timestamp='1361142714' post='1981930'] Life can sometimes get a bit short to be pedantic. Arguing with a guitarist that the run is E F# G# A and not E F# Ab A is not always a productive use of practice time. Shrug play the notes and move on [/quote] I'm an uneducated player, but I find arguing about chords annoying and a complete waste of time, at least for covers, everyone should do thier homework before a run through, regardless if you can read or not. So unless you decide to change key during a session there should be no conversation in an ideal world. Edited February 19, 2013 by lojo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daz Posted February 18, 2013 Share Posted February 18, 2013 (edited) [quote name='stingrayPete1977' timestamp='1361124650' post='1981428'] As a fairly novice reader I have just been using my new found skill to read Chaka Khan Aint Nobody for our function band and as its in F# major the E is sharp, ten years ago I would of doubted its existence even though I had probably been playing them, This was the first time I have ever conciously played E# Doddy will be proud next time I see him [/quote] E sharp! PAH! You'l be teling us you saw Elvis working in a fish n chip shop next then ? . Edited February 18, 2013 by daz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norris Posted February 18, 2013 Share Posted February 18, 2013 [quote name='discreet' timestamp='1361124931' post='1981434'] Ha ha, yes. I just play F instead, it's a lot easier. Edit: Unless I'm feeling ill-tempered, obviously... [/quote] (Somebody got it!) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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