brensabre79 Posted February 18, 2013 Share Posted February 18, 2013 So I've re-wired my Ric copy with CTS pots as per the original Ric schematics (minus the stereo jack). I've used a 500k log pot for the humbucker (neck) volume and 250k for the single coil (bridge). I was hoping this would cure the blending issue but if anything it's exactly the same as before with the stock Alpha 250k pots. It has a Kent Armstrong Toaster pickup in the neck and a Gemini Waverider in the bridge. Both sound awesome on their own, but when together I want to be able to blend. The issue is, when the switch is in the mid position (both pickups on), if I back the neck volume down slightly it behaves like a switch! about 1/8 turn down and suddenly the neck pickup is out of it completely. So its either on or off. Similar story with the Bridge pickup, back it off 1/8 turn and its gone. How do I get these to blend smoothly? like a Jazz bass? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bertbass Posted February 19, 2013 Share Posted February 19, 2013 (edited) Had a quick google and came across this, [url="http://www.mylespaul.com/forums/tonefreaks/558-wiring-library.html"]http://www.mylespaul...ng-library.html[/url], It's for Les Pauls' which display the same problem. It's called independent wiring apparently. Edited February 19, 2013 by bertbass Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Delberthot Posted February 19, 2013 Share Posted February 19, 2013 I've had this issue before and couldn't do anything to make it work. Exactly as you describe it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigRedX Posted February 19, 2013 Share Posted February 19, 2013 (edited) [quote name='brensabre79' timestamp='1361196512' post='1982535'] So I've re-wired my Ric copy with CTS pots as per the original Ric schematics (minus the stereo jack). I've used a 500k log pot for the humbucker (neck) volume and 250k for the single coil (bridge). I was hoping this would cure the blending issue but if anything it's exactly the same as before with the stock Alpha 250k pots. [/quote] Can you post the wiring diagram that you've used and a good clear photo of the actual wiring itself? Edited February 19, 2013 by BigRedX Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mart Posted February 19, 2013 Share Posted February 19, 2013 I think Rics originally have independent volume controls (I.e. if you turn one down to zero, while the switch is in the middle position, you still get the sound of the other pickup, unlike a LP where you'd get no sound). But you could try swapping to Les Paul style wiring - it's an easy mod, so worth a try. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brensabre79 Posted February 19, 2013 Author Share Posted February 19, 2013 Thanks folks. Ok, here's the original diagram i used I ignored the Stereo connections as its a mono bass. I also dispensed with *C3 (this is the Vintage wiring mod basically and I don't need it). Thanks Bert, the bass was previously wired Les Paul style though with the same problem, I'd hoped that wiring it this way would help matters but it has not. The LP goes to the volume first and the switch does the blending, with the Ric circuit, the switch keeps the pickup signals separate and the output jack is where the two signals are combined. Mart, it works as you say, if I turn one vol. completely down I still get the sound of the other pickup. The problem is if I turn it 3/4 up, the sound does not change, then, turn it a little further (almost full) and the second pickup comes on, like a switch, so now I have both at full volume. Basically, its pointless having two volume controls the way this works as I can blend. BigRedX, sorry don't have a pic of mine handy, but I have wired it correctly i promise (i triple checked) I've wired and repaired hundreds of Fender style basses, made looms for people and even designed custom circuits! But for the life of me I cannot figure out how to make two volume controls work properly. It sounds like this is a normal issue then? I've never had a two vol / two tones bass, i always thought the Les Paul wiring was daft, but for guitar I suppose its more of a pre-set system, one for Rhythm one for Lead so you just flip the switch to do a solo, then flip it back at the end to continue chugging - I don't think they were really designed to combine/blend the two pickups. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigRedX Posted February 19, 2013 Share Posted February 19, 2013 That circuit should work. The volume pots are the right way round for them not to interact. Interesting way of wiring up the tone controls... You've replaced both pickups. Do you have the tech specs for their impedances? Are they very different? I can't help but think that having a different value for each volume pot isn't helping. I think you might be asking too much of a passive circuit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brensabre79 Posted February 19, 2013 Author Share Posted February 19, 2013 [quote name='BigRedX' timestamp='1361274044' post='1983594'] That circuit should work. The volume pots are the right way round for them not to interact. Interesting way of wiring up the tone controls... You've replaced both pickups. Do you have the tech specs for their impedances? Are they very different? I can't help but think that having a different value for each volume pot isn't helping. I think you might be asking too much of a passive circuit. [/quote] Yes maybe the 250k / 500k is messing it up! I've got a Kent Armstrong Toaster humbucker in the neck (with 500k) which comes in at 8.7k, and a Gemini Waverider single coil (with 250k) on the bridge, 10.2k. The balance between both pickups on full volume is good, maybe I'll swap out the 250k for a 500k pot and see if that works, hopefully won't lose too much treble! Yeah the Ric wiring is definitely odd, but better than the Gibson way I think as you don't turn the bass off by accident so easily, it uses more wire and its a more fiddly circuit, but I can see how its supposed to work to keep the two signals separated for stereo operation until the last possible point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigRedX Posted February 19, 2013 Share Posted February 19, 2013 [quote name='brensabre79' timestamp='1361275141' post='1983626'] Yes maybe the 250k / 500k is messing it up! I've got a Kent Armstrong Toaster humbucker in the neck (with 500k) which comes in at 8.7k, and a Gemini Waverider single coil (with 250k) on the bridge, 10.2k. The balance between both pickups on full volume is good, maybe I'll swap out the 250k for a 500k pot and see if that works, hopefully won't lose too much treble! Yeah the Ric wiring is definitely odd, but better than the Gibson way I think as you don't turn the bass off by accident so easily, it uses more wire and its a more fiddly circuit, but I can see how its supposed to work to keep the two signals separated for stereo operation until the last possible point. [/quote] TBH I'd go for a [url=http://rowbinet.files.wordpress.com/2011/10/treble_bleed.jpg]treble by-pass circuit[/url] on the volume controls instead of your current mis-matched volume pots, if you are worried about losing top end. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KiOgon Posted February 19, 2013 Share Posted February 19, 2013 The Humbucker is the problem IMO. I believe it's the way the 2 coils are wired & interact with the single coil pup. I don't have any Humbuckers here to experiment with though. I've been throught this same problem recently without finding the answer unfortunately. The Fender AV '62 Jazz bass circuit has worked for most other pickups but not with the Humbucker it seems. http://support.fender.com/service_diagrams/bass_guitars/019-0209C_SISD.pdf The '62 uses 250K volumes & 500K tones, (concentric pots) with no problem, separate pots make no difference. I don't think the treble bleed will help either. Cheerz, John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigRedX Posted February 19, 2013 Share Posted February 19, 2013 This IMO is one instance where an active circuit in the bass would actually be an advantage. Get rid of those stupid active tone controls - most of us have far better sounding one on our amps - and build a simple circuit with buffered inputs with a choose of VV or VB depending on taste. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brensabre79 Posted February 19, 2013 Author Share Posted February 19, 2013 Thanks John, it would make sense I suppose that the Humbucker/Single coil combo is the culprit (although I'm sure the old Rics had the same combination - maybe thats why the HiGain replacement was a single coil though). BigRedX You may be right, I might have to go active, or just accept that I've basically got 3 sounds on this bass! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geddeeee Posted February 19, 2013 Share Posted February 19, 2013 Standard behaviour on RICs.. Turn the volume down then switch to the turned down pickup. Signal is still there, but quieter. Gets lost with the other pickup volume.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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