stingrayPete1977 Posted February 24, 2013 Author Share Posted February 24, 2013 Thanks Sarah I am affraid button moon is about 3 hours away from Cardiff which strangely is where I went to collect the pre EB Ray I might sell to fund a DB! What sort of money would the B&H fetch when they are available, I keep hearing good things about them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stingrayPete1977 Posted February 24, 2013 Author Share Posted February 24, 2013 [quote name='ChrisF' timestamp='1361723759' post='1989858'] Likewise.. I have a £400 Thomann ( which after new strings and a setup by a luthier is more than adequate for my use...IE rockabilly-ish music ) which you are more than welcome to come and try......if button moon is anywhere near Bedfordshire. [/quote] Ah shame I am North of both of you by a good distance, some say Button Moon looks a little bit like rural Staffordshire Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keeponehandloose Posted February 24, 2013 Share Posted February 24, 2013 theres a shop in Beeston , Nottingham , cant remember name , that has a good reputation, or David Vernons in Manchester. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stingrayPete1977 Posted February 24, 2013 Author Share Posted February 24, 2013 I think I have looked at the Notts one before and it looked worth a drive out there so that might be an option, I will have a look at Vernons then, thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stingrayPete1977 Posted February 24, 2013 Author Share Posted February 24, 2013 Turners site is down (beeston) and Vernons dont show any used basses at the moment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thisnameistaken Posted February 24, 2013 Share Posted February 24, 2013 [quote name='stingrayPete1977' timestamp='1361716828' post='1989659'] I suppose it is hard for me to grasp how good and bad the basses can be, as a comparison plenty of people slag off P basses on the net but in reality I could buy one off the hook, set it up just how I like with the strings I like and manage the rest of my days on it[/quote] That's the difference between electric and acoustic instruments. With an electric bass you can pretty much use anything and swap out parts (pickups, hardware, even necks) cheaply to change the sound. And whatever you do the sound isn't going to be a very rich sound anyway. Whereas with a double bass you might improve the sound with the right set of strings and an appropriate setup, but ultimately the construction of the bass will be the limiting factor. A cheap bass will only ever sound so good, and if you've heard better basses and you aspire to those sounds, you might always be a bit disappointed at the sound your cheaper bass makes. I don't really understand why people spend thousands on an electric bass, but I can totally get why people will routinely spend tens of thousands on a double bass. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stingrayPete1977 Posted February 24, 2013 Author Share Posted February 24, 2013 I must admit i havent really heard many real doubles basses in isolation, Have you tried anything under a grand that might be ok tnit? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keeponehandloose Posted February 24, 2013 Share Posted February 24, 2013 dont forget that if you intend to amplify said bass it may not have to sound world class acoustically. IMHO a laminate bass would suit your needs fine, where as a superior sounding solid built bass is necessary for orchestral work Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stingrayPete1977 Posted February 24, 2013 Author Share Posted February 24, 2013 I have also read that the laminates can be more practical and need less frequent fettling? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keeponehandloose Posted February 24, 2013 Share Posted February 24, 2013 i think thats the general opinion. i understand that laminates are less prone to feedback when amplified, although I have no proof as Ive only owned laminates myself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stingrayPete1977 Posted February 24, 2013 Author Share Posted February 24, 2013 Looks like I need to raise some funds and have a few day trips to the specialists and go from there Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keeponehandloose Posted February 25, 2013 Share Posted February 25, 2013 check the for sales. Ceilhidswingers bass is spot on Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thisnameistaken Posted February 25, 2013 Share Posted February 25, 2013 [quote name='stingrayPete1977' timestamp='1361729249' post='1989987']I must admit i havent really heard many real doubles basses in isolation, Have you tried anything under a grand that might be ok tnit?[/quote] Yeah there are plenty of OK basses under a grand. They won't sound stellar but depending on what you're using it for they may do the job just fine. You're unlikely to be able to make any especially informed decisions about the quality of a bass right now due to your inexperience so I would suggest looking at new basses rather than used ones to avoid buying a bass with 'issues'. Spend as much as your budget will allow on the bass itself and don't worry about accessories (pickups, pres, etc.) yet. Especially if you're buying from Thomann or Gedo because you won't need to get a setup done (if you buy from G4M definitely DO budget for a setup!). As for laminates vs. carved basses: Laminates are a little easier to care for in that they aren't as prone to cracking in sub-zero temperatures or other low/no humidity environments, but I've got a laminate and a carved bass and I've found you can just as easily put a hole in a laminate bass by bumping it into something as you can with a carved bass. I don't think there's much point in generalising about the way they sound though. Cheap carved basses don't sound especially impressive and neither do cheap laminates, but maybe you'd prefer the sound of a given laminate over a given carved bass, who knows. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
artisan Posted February 25, 2013 Share Posted February 25, 2013 I bought one of the Thomann 1E basses,the blueburst one,& couldn't be happier with it. Sounds and plays very good & suits what i use it for very well indeed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fatback Posted February 25, 2013 Share Posted February 25, 2013 Take your time; it's a big decision and demands a lot of research. You're lucky to have the EUB to play while you're looking. When I bought mine, I didn't have a clue, so there was no point going round trying lots of basses. What i did have was a good checklist thanks to the helpful folks on here. The considerations that mattered were: Fingerboard - ebony, not 'ebonised', although other hard woods are ok. Body - ply or ply/solid top. The last is a great compromise. Full solid can be harder to control feedback. All-ply is fine for amplified situations anyhow. Strings - Doesn't matter, as you'll change them sooner or later. Allow extra cash for this. Luthier setup - you'll probably get this done, so more cash. Pickup - Allow plenty extra cash over say a year for lots of experiments. Preamp - ditto, unless you have an amp designed for upright. Bow - No big hurry with this, although others would say different. You should be able to get a suitable bass and setup for a grand-ish. Does it matter whether it's new or used? I'd say you'll get a better bass for your money used, but it'll take a lot longer and it's harder to get right if your knowledge is limited. I went on trust and it worked out fine. Most sellers on here would be straight about what they're selling. As for saving up for a good bass, if you mean to gig the thing in pubs you don't want a good bass. Now a [i]second, [/i]quality bass and bow would be very nice. Notice how many times the word 'cash' cropped up? Never mind. Best money you'll ever spend. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thisnameistaken Posted February 25, 2013 Share Posted February 25, 2013 [quote name='fatback' timestamp='1361796273' post='1990887']All-ply is fine for amplified situations anyhow.[/quote] My ply bass doesn't sound half as good as my carved bass amplified. Another factor is the gear you're using to do the amplification (pickup particularly), and how loud you need to go. Yes amplifying a bass is always a compromise but how far do you compromise? At one end of the scale you can get a very good reproduction of the sound of an acoustic bass, at the other end you can go very loud but you might as well be playing an electric. Generally I disagree with this 'ply is fine for x' thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fatback Posted February 25, 2013 Share Posted February 25, 2013 [quote name='thisnameistaken' timestamp='1361796882' post='1990905'] My ply bass doesn't sound half as good as my carved bass amplified. Another factor is the gear you're using to do the amplification (pickup particularly), and how loud you need to go. Yes amplifying a bass is always a compromise but how far do you compromise? At one end of the scale you can get a very good reproduction of the sound of an acoustic bass, at the other end you can go very loud but you might as well be playing an electric. Generally I disagree with this 'ply is fine for x' thing. [/quote] On the other hand, you hear a lot of people saying that they find it harder to control feedback with solid basses? The point about the type of music being played is important. Everything is a trade-off, and I wouldn't want more feedback problems or climate control problems for the sake of any improvement in the sound beyond the quality I've got. There's general playability too. For a beginner that, arguably, matters a lot. if you're lucky enough to find a ply bass that plays well, that can be a great place to start. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thisnameistaken Posted February 25, 2013 Share Posted February 25, 2013 [quote name='fatback' timestamp='1361797651' post='1990934'] On the other hand, you hear a lot of people saying that they find it harder to control feedback with solid basses?[/quote] That seems to be the accepted wisdom yeah, there will be some truth to it but I wouldn't know to what extent it's a problem, I use my carved and laminate basses for different sorts of gigs and I don't currently play in a loud rock band. [quote name='fatback' timestamp='1361797651' post='1990934']The point about the type of music being played is important. Everything is a trade-off, and I wouldn't want more feedback problems or climate control problems for the sake of any improvement in the sound beyond the quality I've got.[/quote] Didn't you basically dampen everything on your bass? I seem to recall you'd muffled everything except the strings and plugged the F-holes and so on to get as much feedback-free volume as you could (apologies if that was someone else - I thought it was you). I definitely have a different approach - I tried attaching a preamp to my tailpiece and didn't like the deadening effect it had on my A and D so I took it off again! I want to get as close to that 'my bass, only louder' ideal of amplification as I can. So far I haven't had any feedback problems and I've found the biggest factor is keeping the stage spl levels down. And frankly as I approach 40 I don't really want to be standing on a very loud stage for long periods of time, my ears had enough punishment when I was young. [quote name='fatback' timestamp='1361797651' post='1990934']There's general playability too. For a beginner that, arguably, matters a lot. if you're lucky enough to find a ply bass that plays well, that can be a great place to start.[/quote] I've played maybe a dozen basses that belong to friends and acquaintances and can't recall coming across any (that had been professionally set up) that were difficult to play. Basses straight off the boat from China with the strings an inch off the board are a different story, but nobody's recommending he buys one of those. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fatback Posted February 25, 2013 Share Posted February 25, 2013 [quote]Didn't you basically dampen everything on your bass?[/quote] No, not me. A bit of notch filtering solved it for me. Don't get me wrong; i'm not being ideological about this ply business (or anything else). But I remember when I was buying my first upright how confusing it seemed to be, when in fact only a few things really mattered. As for the 'playable' bit, I guess a good few basses used and new out there need a bit of work. As a beginner, you can suffer for quite a while not realising where the problems are. Far better to get one that's playable from the off if you can. Horses for courses and all that. I'm now gassing for a second upright, carved and optimised for a bowed acoustic sound. But Nigella will be the girl I take on the town. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fatgoogle Posted February 25, 2013 Share Posted February 25, 2013 I wouldn't worry to much about cracks especially on the front. If the neck seems like its dodgy dont bother. I have a few cracks in the front of mine, some just the finish others right through and i was told to leave them for a couple of months more till they settle and then its simple job or sewing and gluing them back up. Also in your price range i would hazard that most of the second hand bass's will have a more open, fuller sound due to being played in especially if the person before you mainly used a bow. My bass cost me 1200 and i have it valued and insured for 3500. Its a beat up Romanian bass about 50 years old, cracks beat around, scruffy around the edges, full of character, huge sound. Great for what do and the only thing that needs doing are the cracks eventually sown up(a couple of months) the fingerboard taken down a bit and extended. The last too dont really need to be done but i'd like them to be done. There's some great bass's out there that'd suit you perfectly for not much money. Also another place to look(i dont know if you have many of them buy) is convents/loreto's, schools that used to have orchestra's, usually bought a bass or two and are now getting dusty. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keeponehandloose Posted February 25, 2013 Share Posted February 25, 2013 After reading all this thread again I feel sorry for Pete now, so much conflicting info!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clarky Posted February 25, 2013 Share Posted February 25, 2013 This is a useful post by Gareth Hughes [url="http://basschat.co.uk/topic/127187-bass-advice/page__view__findpost__p__1162844"]http://basschat.co.uk/topic/127187-bass-advice/page__view__findpost__p__1162844[/url] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stingrayPete1977 Posted February 25, 2013 Author Share Posted February 25, 2013 Thanks again everyone! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stingrayPete1977 Posted February 25, 2013 Author Share Posted February 25, 2013 [quote name='fatback' timestamp='1361796273' post='1990887'] The considerations that mattered were: Fingerboard - ebony, not 'ebonised', although other hard woods are ok. Body - ply or ply/solid top. The last is a great compromise. Full solid can be harder to control feedback. All-ply is fine for amplified situations anyhow. Strings - Doesn't matter, as you'll change them sooner or later. Allow extra cash for this. Luthier setup - you'll probably get this done, so more cash. Pickup - Allow plenty extra cash over say a year for lots of experiments. Preamp - ditto, unless you have an amp designed for upright. Bow - No big hurry with this, although others would say different. [/quote] Well, I am already set on the ebony board. Looking like a ply or ply with a spruce top I'd say looking at the stuff in budget. Strings will be Spirocores to match my stagg, find the cash from somewhere! Luthier setup, I'm not sure on costs and hopefully get a playable bass if I can? Pickup and preamp I will try and copy others and keep it simple, I won't be gigging the acoustic for a while and the stagg will be easier for the function band. Bow, I have already got a nice carbon Yita music one after my french or german thread Also amp wise I am sorted as I am lucky enough to have a selection of Genz rigs which are quite common with db I beleive? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stingrayPete1977 Posted February 25, 2013 Author Share Posted February 25, 2013 [quote name='keeponehandloose' timestamp='1361790083' post='1990722'] check the for sales. Ceilhidswingers bass is spot on [/quote] I will have a peek now..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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