Mics for bass, and other stuff too.

[MiltyG565]

I'm going to do some recording. Obviously, this involves certain equipment and abilities, but one of those things that i don't have (that i want rather than need) is a mic. I'm fairly sure you guys on here can point me in the direction of a decent mic for a bass amp. My budget is pretty low, so think £100-£150. I was looking at a bass drum mic, specifically, this one- http://www.andertons.co.uk/instrument-amp-drum-mics/pid9342/cid755/shure-beta-52-dynamic-bass-drum-microphone.asp but what do you guys make of that?

Originally, i had wanted to get a mic that would do for bass, and guitar and vocals, but i realised that was asking a lot of one piece of equipment, so i would also like a mic for guitar (acoustic, maybe electric sometimes) and vocals. Shure SM57? Need something that will again be cheap (i know these are easy to come by on the second hand market) and reliable, but also good.

So what do you guys think?

[Skol303]

Hey Milty. My budget is even lower so I ended up buying a [url="http://www.amazon.co.uk/Behringer-C-1-Studio-Condenser-Microphone/dp/B000CZ0RLK"]Behringer C-1[/url] mic for £30!!

It's a great little condenser mic for the price - I use it mainly for vocals and recording weird stuff around the house - but it'd probably work fine for recording bass. More expensive products would undoubtedly do the job a lot better. But if you just want something for messing around at home, the C-1 is worth a look.

Other folks will I'm sure be able to offer other ideas...

[EliasMooseblaster]

I'm led to believe you can record just about anything with a Shure SM57! I have also had reasonable results from pointing a bass drum mic at a cab. Not really had enough experience to suggest which would work better though.

[51m0n]

SM57 has some rolloff too high up for really capturing low end.

You will do well to get a better low end mic than the Red5 Audio kick mic:-

http://www.red5audio.com/acatalog/Dynamic_Microphones.html

At about £35 + VAT its a no brainer, works great for me!

Hopwever if you want to spend your £150 you might find a superb SDC (small diaphragm condensor) is the best all round option, like a Line Audio CM3. Incredible mic for the money, but they are made by a Swedish chap as and when he can (think Barefaced Bass when Alex just started, but for mics and mic pres) so the demand completely outweighs the supply unfortunately...

[Zenitram]

That Red5 kick mic looks great 51m0n, but the website says it's only available as part of a larger kit. Do you have one? How did you get it?

I've also been thinking about getting one of these:
http://www.thomann.de/gb/the_tbone_sc300.htm
next time I order something from Thomann. I've read some decent reviews of the thing -- for 24 quid.

[6v6]

I'd probably try to find a used sennheiser 421, or an SM57/58 *will* work, provided you close mic and don't mind eq-ing back in some off the rolled off low end.

Alternatively something like an AKG D112 (a kick drum mic) up against the cab, perhaps combined with a bit of DI from the amp would work well and is within budget (won't work for vocals tho)

I'm not sure about condensers on bass cabs - I'd always assumed they were a bit fragile to be used on bass cabs, but it sounds like plenty of people do use them, I also prefer the smooth sound of a dynamic mic for bass so normally use either a Shure beta 52, or an SM57 combined with DI (if the beta 52 is on the kick)

Actually - I just googled it, you can get a beta52 for a similar price to a D112 now, they are a better choice IMO, they used to be over £200!

[51m0n]

[quote name='Zenitram' timestamp='1361881737' post='1992302']
That Red5 kick mic looks great 51m0n, but the website says it's only available as part of a larger kit. Do you have one? How did you get it?

I've also been thinking about getting one of these:
[url="http://www.thomann.de/gb/the_tbone_sc300.htm"]http://www.thomann.d...tbone_sc300.htm[/url]
next time I order something from Thomann. I've read some decent reviews of the thing -- for 24 quid.
[/quote]

When I got mine they were available on there own, in fact mine was on a special offer too.

The kits are excellent though, highly recommended, but possibly more than you need.

I wouldnt go near that T.bone mic personally (£24 for an LDC, really!), although this stereo set is considered a reasonably good design (similar physically to the design of a Neumann KM84, which is to be considered a very good thing, the electronics arent in the same league naturally):-

http://www.thomann.de/gb/the_tbone_sc_140_stereoset_bundle.htm

The CM3 blows these away though, or Little Blondies, although they are omni pattern and so not really suitable for your intended usage.

Nothing wrong with a condensor on a cabinet, Flea used one live for years, I've seen toms mic'ed with Neumann U87s, kick drums with U47s, you name it. Ribbon mics on the other hand tend to be far more delicate!

Sennheise 421 is a great mic (brilliant on toms) but very very dear by todays standards (ie with all the decent CHinese stuff now available), and I would personally not buy a second hand mic, especially if its usual role in a studio was as a tom mic, the abuse they can get is scary!

Likewise the AKG D112 and beta52 are fine mics (pretty heavily eq'ed IMO) but you get pretty much the same thing for a fraction of the cost from the Red5 kit or failing that the Studiospares line of cheap mics is totally brilliant (for the money). Any of these will do as a starter for bass:-

http://www.studiospares.com/mics-instrument/studiospares-s930-instrument-mic/invt/448620/
http://www.studiospares.com/mics-instrument/studiospares-sd102-bass-drum-mic/invt/449050/
http://www.studiospares.com/mics-instrument/studiospares-sd101-drumpercussion-mic/invt/448660/

The s930 is a mic I'm very interested in for horns and snare, but it will do for bass as well no problem - and guitar cabs - versatile little thing. Its what I'd get if I were you.

A pair would do as overheads (neodymium magnets and a nice presence peak), but these would be even better:-
http://www.studiospares.com/mics-instrument/studiospares-s980-overhead-percussion-condenser/invt/449040/

Then get this for vocals:-
http://www.studiospares.com/mics-condenser/studiospares-s1000-studio-condenser-mic-pack/invt/448500/

Still under budget and your recordings will be far better for getting mics more targetted to different roles.

[51m0n]

Oh and the cheapest way to record something, just about anything, just capture it, is probably these:-

http://www.karmamics.com/shop/K-Micro-Matched-Pair.html

[Zenitram]

I always forget about Studiospares; they seem great.

[51m0n]

Yep, they are good, as are audiospares.co.uk for cabling and looms and the like (phone them up if you are doing a lot of stuff, good deals can be had)

[6v6]

[quote name='MiltyG565' timestamp='1361759424' post='1990503']
I'm going to do some recording. Obviously, this involves certain equipment and abilities, but one of those things that i don't have (that i want rather than need) is a mic. I'm fairly sure you guys on here can point me in the direction of a decent mic for a bass amp. My budget is pretty low, so think £100-£150. I was looking at a bass drum mic, specifically, this one- [url="http://www.andertons.co.uk/instrument-amp-drum-mics/pid9342/cid755/shure-beta-52-dynamic-bass-drum-microphone.asp"]http://www.andertons...-microphone.asp[/url] but what do you guys make of that?
[/quote]

Haha - Just realized I've recommended what you linked to - I have a Beta52 and they are excellent IMO - when I got mine they were over £200 so the current price is a very good deal - they are built incredibly strong, like all Shure mics, and have a nice smooth sound on both kick drum and bass guitar.

The only think to be aware of using a kick mic for bass guitar is you won't get much treble, so if you care about tweeters/slap and the like, you'll need to record the amp DI as well as the mic.

[quote name='MiltyG565' timestamp='1361759424' post='1990503']
Originally, i had wanted to get a mic that would do for bass, and guitar and vocals, but i realised that was asking a lot of one piece of equipment, so i would also like a mic for guitar (acoustic, maybe electric sometimes) and vocals. Shure SM57? Need something that will again be cheap (i know these are easy to come by on the second hand market) and reliable, but also good.

So what do you guys think?
[/quote]

If you can only have one mic for bass guitar and vocals, just get a Shure SM58 - it will do an okay job of both and will always be useful when you get some more specialized mics. The first decent mic I bought (over 20 years ago) was a 58 and I still use it regularly.

If I only had a mic and no DI on a bass cab, I'd probably prefer an SM58 over a 57 - slightly better bass response and slightly smoother high mids to even out any clank.

[RockfordStone]

i have some studio spares mics, given what im recording with them, for the money they are pretty good.
obviously not as good as expensive mics but they do a job

[6v6]

Ok, since I mentioned the 58 and several cheap clone mics have been suggested above:

I've also got three Beringher XM8500's, which are copies of an SM58. They don't sound as good (especially for vocals), but they are very cheap, so if you just want something cheap to get started with, one of those for ~£20 would be perfectly fine. I use mine on toms when there aren't any SM57/58s around I can borrow.

The other thing to mention, is for home recording (as opposed to recording your band), do you really want to mic up an amp at all? I got the amplitube Ampeg SVX plugin recently (it's on special offer for about £30 atm), I just plug my bass into a firewire interface and record via that - obviously this requires you to have a fairly reasonable computer and audio interface or the latency will be too much to use it "live".

[RockfordStone]

pick up a cheap line 6 pod, an interface, and run straight through that, no need to even use the amp.
i don't use my amp at all for recording at home

[Zenitram]

Imma gonna get me some of them silver bullets. I don't even have anything particular to record with them, but I like 'em. How dumb is that.

[Zenitram]

Pretty dumb, that's how dumb.

[51m0n]

Nah I hear you, they are just cool doodads to ahve around.

Note they are omnis, so they work like a very sensitive barometer, they 'hear' evenly in all directions, so you cant get awway with pointing them away from a source of noise, they will find you out if you fart in the studio

On the plus side that means they dont suffer from proximity effect (getting bassier the closer you get to something) and can handle meaty SPLs apparently. Great for acoustic guitar, spaced stereo pairs (no good at all as a coincident pair, since they are omnis, or ORTF or any stereo produced using cardiod characteristics of the mics used)

Obviously for that money they are not the be all and end all in mics, but for interesting tiny little mics they are excellent fun and not crap apparently.

[51m0n]

If you want to learn to mic things up get some mics and play (you will get further quicker if you know someone who can show you where to start and what to listen for), if you want to record your bass you can DI, mic a cab or use some form of emulation, all can sound fine and neednt scare the neighbours.

[Zenitram]

I would probably be recording acoustic guitar or random ambient noise into a hardware sampler, with a Focusrite mic pre and compressor in the middle.

[51m0n]

Well they will do it for you, not as well as more expensive solutions, but I wouldnt expect them to.

[MiltyG565]

Ok, not had a chance to read all the response yet, but i have read some of them, and thanks for the suggestions! I might well get a set of those silver bullets!

I was talking to a friend of mine who does a fair bit of recording, and he said the best sound he ever got from a bass was with an SM57 right up to the cone, and an AKG C414 about a foot in front, and slightly off centre, then mixed with a bit of DI. Now- An AKG is massively expensive, so i'll have to substitute it for something else, naturally. The SM57 seems like a good idea, because it will capture the high end of the cab (maybe place if vaguely near the tweeter?). and he said the AKG picked up the punch and boom of the cab, and the DI filled out everything in between. Fair enough.

I have 1 bass head, a combo (which i will put a link to my video of below) and a 15" Sub, which would be used with the rack head. If possible, i would like to DI the rack head, and also mic the sub, along with DI'ing and micing the combo. What's the best way to split my signal to the 2 heads? Just use one of those cheap 2 way splitters?

Also, i need to upgrade all my recording gear. At the moment, i just have a little sound card that has one XLR input. If i'm recording the way i want to, i'll need 5 or 6, but still on a budget. I reckon a Behringer Xenyx is a good budget option. It's a USB mixer, and it will allow me to control the volumes more easily (in my last recording, the cab was very quiet, because i had to keep the volume very low or it was too loud for my laptop to record using the DI, which i thought was odd.).

Anyway, it needs to be good. Omni's aren't really a good option for me, because i'll be recording this in my room pretty much, which doesn't even have carpet at the minute. The cabs are pointed straight at a wardrobe, and a wall, so lots of parallel surfaces to reflect off. I need to do this well, because i hope to make an EP from it.

[MiltyG565]

SWR DI'd - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AdZHavie-Uw

Ashdown DI'd - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W_Gvoa5hips

[cheddatom]

I have a pair of the bullets and know another guy who has them after I recommended them. I've mixed some of his sessions as well as using my own. Mainly as drum overheads but also on acoustic guitars and some percussion. Honestly, they're ace.

[Zenitram]

I just emailed the Karma people, as the mics on their own have $26.95 shipping, which is fair enough. If you then add two mic holders designed to go with the bullets (at $2 each), the shipping price jumps to $69.95! Which is mental and presumably a glitch.

Edited February 26, 2013 by Zenitram

[51m0n]

Milty you are overcomplicating this I think. You dont need a room mic, its going to add a world of hurt for you regarding phase issues. If you dont already know about how to go abou tsolving this sort of thing, or even know how to recognise it, then you need not to be worrying about a third source.

You need a decent two channel USB audio interface.

Get a decent DI, ignore the amp, DI the bass.

I've recorded albums without a mic on the bass cab, its not a necessity unless you are using an overdriven sound (nothing deliberately overdriven in the samples you have put up), and at your stage I would recommend simple first and foremost.
Mic the cab with one mic, get it in phase with the DI.

If you are going for some amp derived growl though mic the 115, a 57 would be fine, use the DI for everything below about 200Hz, and the mic above that. Sort that out at mixdown though, not when tracking, you havent got the set up to allow you to make that kind of critical decision during tracking. However if you arent using an overdriven bass sound then dont even bother with the mic.