Mics for bass, and other stuff too.

[MiltyG565]

Em, i had kind of already thrown out the room mic and second head ideas. My cab is posted at the back though, so to get any ported sound at all, would i not need to either have a mic at the back, or very far in front?

I was thinking of more going down the route of micing the cone and also taking a DI from the head (saves me needing to get a DI box) and then blending them in the mix. I need to learn how to match the phasing though. I know that's important, but i don't know how to. I'll read up on that.

Another thing i need to record is my acoustic guitar. I would need a condenser mic for that, won't i? (as well as a decent room to record it in).

[6v6]

[quote name='MiltyG565' timestamp='1361957081' post='1993483']
The final recordings aren't going to be for putting on soundcloud, or the composition competition, but to be given to and sold to people to listen to. Whether people want to buy or listen is another thread.
[/quote]

I hate to be negative, but your first attempts won't be pro-studio release quality (actually IME they probably never will be ), and you definitely won't get anywhere close with one mic and a £100-£150 budget.

As others have said, for bass just keep it simple & DI, maybe add one 57/58 on the cab.

I personally avoid using condenser mics for anything other than vocal overdubs and drum overheads - they (particularly omni LDC's) pick up so much room sound and spill that it's incredibly easy to ruin a perfectly good take with a bit of background noise or a bad sounding room.

[MiltyG565]

[quote name='6v6' timestamp='1361964589' post='1993629']
I hate to be negative, but your first attempts won't be pro-studio release quality (actually IME they probably never will be ), and you definitely won't get anywhere close with one mic and a £100-£150 budget.
[/quote]

It's an EP. I've done a couple of other recordings before, but never using a mc.

[6v6]

[quote name='MiltyG565' timestamp='1361964491' post='1993625']
Another thing i need to record is my acoustic guitar. I would need a condenser mic for that, won't i? (as well as a decent room to record it in).
[/quote]

Depends, if you have a pickup in the guitar (like an under saddle one or similar), you again could get away with just DI-ing the guitar pickup, and maybe have an SM57 picking up a bit of the natural guitar sound - in a mix with other instruments this would work perfectly fine, maybe not good enough for solo pieces though (where as you say condenser and nice sounding room would be better)

As you can see, there are almost no situations which cannot be solved with a '57 and a bit of DI-ing

[MiltyG565]

My guitar has no pickup or preamp system. I didn't buy one with a preamp because you get less guitar for the money.

[RockfordStone]

ok lets keep it simple

you say an ep, what are the songs to consist of?

we can throw loads and loads of ideas around, but to know what you need, you need to know yourself what you are planning on.

i assume acoustic guitar, bass and vocal at this stage?

[cheddatom]

I record a lot of distorted bass and get great results just using DI(s) and EQ. In my experience micing bass is more trouble than it's worth.

[6v6]

[quote name='MiltyG565' timestamp='1361965332' post='1993642']
My guitar has no pickup or preamp system. I didn't buy one with a preamp because you get less guitar for the money.
[/quote]

You could consider installing one - I added a B-Band system to my acoustic and the results are excellent (much better, and more convenient/consistent than a cheap mic in a bad room IMO, I have several condenser mics I could use but almost always just DI the b-band)

http://www.b-band.com/

[MiltyG565]

[quote name='6v6' timestamp='1361967210' post='1993688']
You could consider installing one - I added a B-Band system to my acoustic and the results are excellent (much better, and more convenient/consistent than a cheap mic in a bad room IMO, I have several condenser mics I could use but almost always just DI the b-band)

[url="http://www.b-band.com/"]http://www.b-band.com/[/url]
[/quote]

Cheers.


[quote name='RockfordStone' timestamp='1361966203' post='1993665']
ok lets keep it simple

you say an ep, what are the songs to consist of?

we can throw loads and loads of ideas around, but to know what you need, you need to know yourself what you are planning on.

i assume acoustic guitar, bass and vocal at this stage?
[/quote]

Yup, just bass and guitar at this stage. Not even sure about vocals yet. Some songs might be recorded on electric guitar, but i'll likely use the same technique as i do for recording bass as i will for electric, provided i can get a lend of a decent amp.

[51m0n]

[quote name='MiltyG565' timestamp='1361964491' post='1993625']
Em, i had kind of already thrown out the room mic and second head ideas. My cab is posted at the back though, so to get any ported sound at all, would i not need to either have a mic at the back, or very far in front?
[/quote]

Okay - but for close micing a cone an LDC is not required, or often desirable (it can be used - but a really good LDC is mnassively out of your budget)

So SDC or Dynamic?

Dynamic is the norm, an SDC will do it though. Again not all SDCs are equal, a good one (the CM3 for instance is the cheapest really really good cardioid SDC available that I know of) is going to set you back over £100

A good enough dynamic will be less.

Forget the port, it is flawed as hell compared to the DI low end, the interesting colour is almost always in the midrange anyway - right where the cone is putting out frquencies and your dynamic cardioid mic is good at capturing them - so dont bother trying to mic a port, DI instead for that bottom end.

A good DI is over £100 too. Yes there are cheaper ones, but you already said you dont want this to sound cheap. Get a good workhorse DI, not some crappy Behringer rubbish that does all sorts of unnecessary stuff (ooh look its got eq and drive - crap unneccessary waste of money - ignore it at the price range you can entertain, yes I include all the bass preamp floor boxes with a DI thrown in to this comment, they are gash for what you are doing, do not let the bells and whistles seduce you).

[quote name='MiltyG565' timestamp='1361964491' post='1993625']
I was thinking of more going down the route of micing the cone and also taking a DI from the head (saves me needing to get a DI box) and then blending them in the mix. I need to learn how to match the phasing though. I know that's important, but i don't know how to. I'll read up on that.
[/quote]

Good, mic the cab. Bad dont DI from the head, it is not adding anything useful where you need that DI signal to be helping your bass sound that you cant do far better at mix down with decent VSTs - you do have a computer capable of running some decent softweare and reasonable VSTs at this point dont you?

[quote name='MiltyG565' timestamp='1361964491' post='1993625']
Another thing i need to record is my acoustic guitar. I would need a condenser mic for that, won't i? (as well as a decent room to record it in).
[/quote]

OK, CM3 is king for that at the price, a Little Blondie is more natural close miced (no proximity effect being omni) but your room wil put the kybosh on the recording of an acoustic guitar with an omni (why? source is low level, omni picks up the room as much as the source, by definition, crap room = crap result).

CM3 is about £140 on its own, so maybe the t.bone stereo set will help at a much lower budget. Condensors do acoustic guitars far better than dynamics as a rule. Although a dymanic on the body and a condensor further up toward the neck can sound ace on acoustic guitar. Position is ultra critical for acoustic guitar, be ready to spend an afternoon just getting the mics in the right place. Seriously...

[RockfordStone]

then your best bet is to get usb interface and a mic, and do that

you can DI the bass into the interface, and then line the guitar in and use computer processing to get the guitar tones.

i would suggest this http://www.studiospares.com/audio-interfaces/line-6-pod-studio-ux1-audio-interface/invt/301220/?VBMST=line%206%20ux1 as it comes with pod farm, which is pretty good for guitar tones, i use it for my recordings

http://www.studiospares.com/mics-condenser/studiospares-s990-condenser-mic-cardioid/invt/449120/ something like this will do for acoustic guitars, and then vocals if you want to add after.

you can make an ep using those pieces.

shop around and you can get them in your budget.

unless you are experienced in recording and mixing etc, keep it simple and the results will be worth it. all my bass chat entries are done on a 2 channel tascam and a single condensor mic for vocal, if i was to spend proper time on recording and mixing them then i could make a sellable ep from them.

also remember, you are working within constraints, so the recordings may not sound like the most polished articles in the world, but don't let it get you down, take your time and the results will come

[MiltyG565]

[quote name='51m0n' timestamp='1361968390' post='1993714']
Good, mic the cab. Bad dont DI from the head, it is not adding anything useful where you need that DI signal to be helping your bass sound that you cant do far better at mix down with decent VSTs - you do have a computer capable of running some decent softweare and reasonable VSTs at this point dont you?
[/quote]

I have Logic Pro 9. Not sure what VST's are though.


[quote name='51m0n' timestamp='1361968390' post='1993714']
A good DI is over £100 too. Yes there are cheaper ones, but you already said you dont want this to sound cheap. Get a good workhorse DI, not some crappy Behringer rubbish that does all sorts of unnecessary stuff (ooh look its got eq and drive - crap unneccessary waste of money - ignore it at the price range you can entertain, yes I include all the bass preamp floor boxes with a DI thrown in to this comment, they are gash for what you are doing, do not let the bells and whistles seduce you).
[/quote]

Ok, what do you recommend? My teacher uses an EBS DI/preamp. It's rockin'!


[quote name='51m0n' timestamp='1361968390' post='1993714']
OK, CM3 is king for that at the price, a Little Blondie is more natural close miced (no proximity effect being omni) but your room wil put the kybosh on the recording of an acoustic guitar with an omni (why? source is low level, omni picks up the room as much as the source, by definition, crap room = crap result).

CM3 is about £140 on its own, so maybe the t.bone stereo set will help at a much lower budget. Condensors do acoustic guitars far better than dynamics as a rule. Although a dymanic on the body and a condensor further up toward the neck can sound ace on acoustic guitar. Position is ultra critical for acoustic guitar, be ready to spend an afternoon just getting the mics in the right place. Seriously...
[/quote]

Duly noted.

[RockfordStone]

VST's are the effects within the software, eg the compressors, eq etc

[MiltyG565]

[quote name='RockfordStone' timestamp='1361968911' post='1993727']
also remember, you are working within constraints, so the recordings may not sound like the most polished articles in the world, but don't let it get you down, take your time and the results will come
[/quote]

Oh, i'm not looking for a highly polished article. I'm not trying to get it on Radio 1.

I already have an interface. It only has 1 XLR input though. I was thinking of getting a little Behringer xenyx mixer. They are a USB mixer.

[RockfordStone]

[quote name='MiltyG565' timestamp='1361969248' post='1993738']
Oh, i'm not looking for a highly polished article. I'm not trying to get it on Radio 1.

I already have an interface. It only has 1 XLR input though. I was thinking of getting a little Behringer xenyx mixer. They are a USB mixer.
[/quote]

think about how many things you are recording.
i would suggest a better interface with less inputs, rather than a cheap one because it has more inputs, remember the interface will affect your sound if it is sh*t

you can't go wrong with line 6 stuff. personally i'm a big fan of tascam stuff, but line 6 stuff is hella handy

Edited February 27, 2013 by RockfordStone

[MiltyG565]

Well my current interface was only £45, and you'd be hard pushed to find something cheaper than that. If i was to get a Behringer Xenyx with 4 faders (which would be 8 channels, wouldn't it?) that would be the best part of £100.

I'm going to start investing in stuff. Might start off with the DI and mics. Then get the interface and everything else i need after.

[51m0n]

[quote name='MiltyG565' timestamp='1361969083' post='1993733']
Ok, what do you recommend? My teacher uses an EBS DI/preamp. It's rockin'!
[/quote]
[b] [size=3]BSS Ar133 Di Box[/size][/b]

[url="http://www.studiospares.com/di-boxes/bss-ar133-di-box/invt/431310/?VBMST=DI%20box"]http://www.studiospa...?VBMST=DI%20box[/url]

His EBS DI/preamp is a preamp first and a DI second, hence the DI isnt as good (clean, uncoloured) by its very nature.

Edited February 27, 2013 by 51m0n

[MiltyG565]

[quote name='51m0n' timestamp='1361970327' post='1993766']
[b] [size=3]BSS Ar133 Di Box[/size][/b]

[url="http://www.studiospares.com/di-boxes/bss-ar133-di-box/invt/431310/?VBMST=DI%20box"]http://www.studiospa...?VBMST=DI%20box[/url]

His EBS DI/preamp is a preamp first and a DI second, hence the DI isnt as good (clean, uncoloured) by its very nature.
[/quote]

Alright, cheers!

[51m0n]

[quote name='MiltyG565' timestamp='1361970151' post='1993760']
Well my current interface was only £45, and you'd be hard pushed to find something cheaper than that. If i was to get a Behringer Xenyx with 4 faders (which would be 8 channels, wouldn't it?) that would be the best part of £100.

I'm going to start investing in stuff. Might start off with the DI and mics. Then get the interface and everything else i need after.
[/quote]

4 faders = 4 channels

For the money the mic pres will be dog poo, the drivers will be no better, it will be utter utter rubbish. It will not help you reach your goal, it will hinder you.

You really get what you pay for with this kit. All the prosumer stuff will do an okay job, none of it, regardless of it being called a goldendoohickey[b][i]PRO[/i][/b] is in any way a professionals tool.

A serious interface will cost way North of £500. For 8 channels. The best 2 channel interfaces on the market are the Apogee Duet (Mac only) and the RME Babyface. Best you sit down before you take a look at the prices I'm afraid....

I've spent years battling cheaper interfaces at home (rather than decent kit when working in studios), and can honestly say I shouldnt have ever bothered. Time to get the paper round money together, if you are looking to be able to easily produce a good quality product you need a decent interface with low (or no) latency.

It must have great drivers, it must have great mic pres (or at least very very good and very clean), it must have great AD and DA conversion. If you have pants driveers you will spend more time foghting the interface than recording, if you have pants mic pres it wont matter what mic you record with, or how you place it, it will never sound great, ok yes, not great, if your ADA is to cock you wont translate what you record to the harddrive properly, and you wont hear what you put down before properly -either of which will ruin your work.

On top of this you will need some reasonable monitors, good tracking headphones, and the afore mentioned mics, well set up and maintained instruments with new strings, a [i]huge[/i] amount of time, andthe burning desire to get this done, because it will take you at least ten times longer to do a great job than you currently think.

On a positive note, when you do get that result you will be so chuffed that you will listen to it for a month non-stop, and play it to everyone, and they will actually want to hear it....

[discreet]

[quote name='MiltyG565' timestamp='1361969083' post='1993733']
Not sure what VST's are though.
[size=4][/quote][/size]
VST stands for Virtual Studio Technology. It's an open audio plug-in standard created by Steinberg that allows third party developers to create their own VST software plug-ins. VST instruments (VSTi) generate audio signals. VST effects process audio signals.

VST audio instruments and effects can't run independently on a computer - they must be used from within a VST host application - like your Logic Pro 9 (which will have lots of VSTs in it already), or Cubase, Reason, Reaper or any other DAW.

There are lots of free VSTs available for download on the internetz. Google 'free VSTs' and you'll see a shedload of 'em.

Hope this helps!

Edited February 27, 2013 by discreet

[bartelby]

[quote name='discreet' timestamp='1361971924' post='1993809']
[/size]
VST audio instruments and effects can't run independently on a computer - they must be used from within a VST host application - like your Logic Pro 9 (which will have lots of VSTs in it already), or Cubase, Reason, Reaper or any other DAW.

[/quote]

Pretty sure VST can't run in Reason. Unless someone has developed a rack extension to allow it...

[discreet]

[quote name='bartelby' timestamp='1361976285' post='1993898']
Pretty sure VST can't run in Reason. Unless someone has developed a rack extension to allow it...
[/quote]

You're right! That one's a bit quirky. Scrub that, then...

[Zenitram]

No, Reason can't run VST. They've now allowed third-party developers in, but in a proprietory format called Rack Extensions.

[url="http://www.propellerheads.se/products/reason/index.cfm?fuseaction=get_article&article=rack-extensions"]http://www.propeller...rack-extensions[/url]

Ah, sorry, that's what bartelby was saying.

Edited February 27, 2013 by Zenitram

[MiltyG565]

Would this mixer that Zenitram is selling do?

http://basschat.co.uk/topic/199943-for-sale-yamaha-mx124-mixer/

[Zenitram]

Sorry, I just saw this. Do for what?