advice for someone whos thick (me)

[christhammer666]

this is another one of my topics which always starts with...am I being totally thick........in standard tuning I know that if I want to play a G scale ill start 3rd fret on the E string.cos the 2 bands im in tune way down, im finding it hard to learn any theory cos all the notes have moved (if that makes sense). I don't wanna keep retuning my bass just to learn scales.whats are my options should I think of a 5er ??? all opinions welcomed as always...................jamie

[andydye]

The theory doesn't change with different tunings but the note locations will...I'd suggest learning where the notes are in the tuning you use most (and standard tuning too) and then you'll know where your root should be...

presumably your downtuning but still keeping the 4ths interval in between the strings so the shapes will be the same?

Edited March 3, 2013 by andydye

[OldG]

What tuning do the band use?

[PaulWarning]

I'm no theory wizard either, but if you're tuning a tone down, i.e.the E string to D just move everything up 2 frets, that is the G scale starts on the 5th fret instead of the 3rd fret

[christhammer666]

one band use drop c.....the other we tune Bb,f,Bb,e

[xilddx]

Buy a dirt cheap bass and keep it in standard tuning, use that for your theory related practice.

If you are playing in [color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]Bb,F,Bb,E you'll need to HEAR scales in order to play them fluently, the more you practice in standard tuning the better you will be able to hear scales.[/font][/color]

[christhammer666]

[quote name='xilddx' timestamp='1362309912' post='1998107']
Buy a dirt cheap bass and keep it in standard tuning, use that for your theory related practice.

If you are playing in [color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]Bb,F,Bb,E you'll need to HEAR scales in order to play them fluently, the more you practice in standard tuning the better you will be able to hear scales.[/font][/color]
[/quote]
....totally agree there.im trying to convince both my bands if sylosis and opeth can sound heavy in standard tuning so can we lol

[steve-bbb]

do you have many songs which require a low Bb?

if not my humble suggestion would be get a five string in standard tuning

listen to the bass line - figure it out and play it yourself (ie do not copy the pattern that the guitarists are playing on their puny thin-wired instruments)

play the pattern on the bass as in a position on the neck where the riff best suits the register (which isnt necessarily going to be copy the shapes that the guitarists are throwing!!!)

[xilddx]

[quote name='christhammer666' timestamp='1362310020' post='1998111']
....totally agree there.im trying to convince both my bands if sylosis and opeth can sound heavy in standard tuning so can we lol
[/quote]

Forget all that, the music is what is important. Use whatever tuning you need. You just need to get used to it. The primary skill is hearing the notes, not playing by numbers. But practicing scales in standard tuning will help you hear the notes so you can go to your weird bass and work out scales by ear, rather than by laborious technical exercise.

So see if you can buy an old hack for £60 and keep it knocking about the house for practice in EADG

[BassTractor]

[quote name='xilddx' timestamp='1362310554' post='1998132']
So see if you can buy an old hack for £60
[/quote]

I'm sick and tired of you always sneekily trying to sell that chrome Warwick in other threads. I'll give you £52, BTW.


best,
bert

[christhammer666]

I know we was in d then went to drop c now some singers weve been auditioning wanted it lower now the guitarard wants to stay dropped to Bb

[andydye]

You could draw a picture of the neck and annotate it with the notes in your wierd tuning, that'll help you see how it all fits together if you can't visualise it and then you can colour in a major scale pattern which is then easy to mod with all the wacky bits for other chords...

...and use your ears absolutely!

[Musky]

[quote name='hunt the shunt' timestamp='1362317504' post='1998262']
Also, because the thin strings use irregular intervals because they can't play proper chords dont mean bass has to.
[/quote]
Yep, this is the key (no pun intended) to this. Just tune to Bb standard tuning and work out the notes you need to play from there.
[quote name='xilddx' timestamp='1362310554' post='1998132']
Forget all that, the music is what is important. Use whatever tuning you need. You just need to get used to it. The primary skill is hearing the notes, not playing by numbers. But practicing scales in standard tuning will help you hear the notes so you can go to your weird bass and work out scales by ear, rather than by laborious technical exercise.

So see if you can buy an old hack for £60 and keep it knocking about the house for practice in EADG
[/quote]
The problem I'd have with this if I were in the OP's position is that while I can hear the intervals between notes, this automatically gets converted to the fret positions in standard tuning. It would probably take me a fair bit of practice to overcome years of ingrained muscle memory. But then I'm an old git who's probably set in his ways, which I'd imagine isn't a problem the OP has.

[Geek99]

You're not thick, from my perspective at least - I'd struggle with odd tunings too.

[bassmachine2112]

Buy a dirt cheap bass and use it on the down tuned stuff.
Use your beautiful tone monster for the standard tuned stuff

[xilddx]

[quote name='Musky' timestamp='1362343353' post='1998745']
Yep, this is the key (no pun intended) to this. Just tune to Bb standard tuning and work out the notes you need to play from there.

The problem I'd have with this if I were in the OP's position is that while I can hear the intervals between notes, this automatically gets converted to the fret positions in standard tuning. It would probably take me a fair bit of practice to overcome years of ingrained muscle memory. But then I'm an old git who's probably set in his ways, which I'd imagine isn't a problem the OP has.
[/quote]

I'm sorry but I disagree with both your replies.

The guitarists are clearly doing what they need to to achieve the sounds they want. This is progress from the POV of the musician.

It's not muscle memory that's your problem, it's just practice. It can easily be overcome.

[xilddx]

[quote name='iceonaboy' timestamp='1362413470' post='1999251']
I cant see the problem. As long as you are tuning the bass down as it should be, the scale shapes will remain the same. Its just your key that will change. Its not like guitar , which can have wierd tunings like DAGBAD or the like.
[/quote]

One is not tuned in 4ths, one band is [color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]Bb,F,Bb,E.[/font][/color]

[PaulWarning]

maybe I'm being thick here, but why do you have to alter your bass to odd tuning just because the guitard does? if you really want to tune down to Bb (can't see it cutting through much that low tbh) why don't you tune all your strings that low i.e. Bb, Eb, Ab, Db?, or I'm I missing something

[xilddx]

[quote name='iceonaboy' timestamp='1362414743' post='1999292']
Thats exactly my point mate. The bass does not have to tune the same as the guitar. 4ths all the way!!!
[/quote]

No. There are certain sounds and playing styles that altered tunings are best for.

[xilddx]

[quote name='PaulWarning' timestamp='1362414540' post='1999285']
maybe I'm being thick here, but why do you have to alter your bass to odd tuning just because the guitard does? if you really want to tune down to Bb (can't see it cutting through much that low tbh) why don't you tune all your strings that low i.e. Bb, Eb, Ab, Db?, or I'm I missing something
[/quote]

Look, can we stop with this 'guitard' sh*t please?

[xilddx]

It's 'guitarse'. Ok?

[WalMan]

[quote name='xilddx' timestamp='1362415836' post='1999323']
No. There are certain sounds and playing styles that altered tunings are best for.
[/quote]For example Porcupine Tree - Blackest Eyes is best played (and so far as I am aware) was played DADG. The minute you do that it becomes infinitely easier to play - at least for a berk like me.

My covers band play detuned a semitone to Eb because it makes the backing vox easier & better fits the lead vox range. I tend to leave the basses tuned that way - though with other projects tuned concert they do change back and forth a bit more nowadays. When practising detuned and at r/h we talk through songs as if we were tuned concert, not detuned. So I don't say Ab when playing fifth fret fourth string, I say A. Or perhaps I've misunderstood the question

[Commando Jack]

[quote name='WalMan' timestamp='1362417032' post='1999359']
So I don't say Ab when playing fifth fret fourth string, I say A. Or perhaps I've misunderstood the question
[/quote]

This is standard practise in classical music, where a transposing instrument such as a saxophone or trumpet will say they are playing a C, but really it's Bb. It's up to the composer to make sure everyone's playing in the right key when he writes the parts out.

The only issue is that this method requires the bass to be tuned in 4ths to make any sense, and the OP is not tuning in 4ths.

[WalMan]

[quote name='Commando Jack' timestamp='1362419143' post='1999429']
This is standard practise in classical music, where a transposing instrument such as a saxophone or trumpet will say they are playing a C, but really it's Bb. It's up to the composer to make sure everyone's playing in the right key when he writes the parts out.

The only issue is that this method requires the bass to be tuned in 4ths to make any sense, and the OP is not tuning in 4ths.
[/quote]Fair enough & what I was doing when playing the trumpet, which might have been a better example. So RTFQ then

Edited March 4, 2013 by WalMan

[Musky]

[quote name='xilddx' timestamp='1362415836' post='1999323']
No. There are certain sounds and playing styles that altered tunings are best for.
[/quote]
True, but we don't actually know that what the OP needs to play can't be achieved in by simply tuning down. Since he's likely to be playing about with string guages anyway, choosing them to get the required timbre shouldn't be a problem.

It may well be that he does need to adopt the same tuning as the guitarists, for instance if he's playing a lot of chords or open string pedals, but I certainly wouldn't dismiss using a standard tuning out of hand.