Career in music?

[SteveK]

This thread was prompted by the 'Practice' thread which made for surprising reading;

How many BCers hope to make a career in music?

Looking at the aforementioned thread it would appear that no one is playing their instrument in anything approaching a serious way - not even picking up their basses between rehearsals.
When I was in my teens (and before) I almost had to be physically prised from my instrument (guitar in those days). It was the same for my friends/band mates - we would practice at every opportunity - even being late for school for trying to learn the latest lick.
I can understand that older members have long ago chosen a different career path, and for some, families take priority, but how about you younger members with no commitments?

Is nobody working [i]seriously [/i]towards a career in music?

[mushers]

i tried to many years ago and failed split from band fell out with the guitarist/songwriter, given up hope but still love playing probably clock up 3 hours a night on average.
so its a no for me would love to but family bills and all that mean no career change for me

Edit just realised the question was aimed at younger members lol wish i could claim to be part of that group still

Edited March 3, 2013 by mushers

[thumbo]

How many hours practice per day do you think is 'serious'?

[EssentialTension]

[quote name='SteveK' timestamp='1362341173' post='1998694']
This thread was prompted by the 'Practice' thread which made for surprising reading;

How many BCers hope to make a career in music?

Looking at the aforementioned thread it would appear that no one is playing their instrument in anything approaching a serious way - not even picking up their basses between rehearsals.
When I was in my teens (and before) I almost had to be physically prised from my instrument (guitar in those days). It was the same for my friends/band mates - we would practice at every opportunity - even being late for school for trying to learn the latest lick.
I can understand that older members have long ago chosen a different career path, and for some, families take priority, but how about you younger members with no commitments?

Is nobody working [i]seriously [/i]towards a career in music?
[/quote]
Not me, but I'm 61 and more working towards retirement.

I'm reminded of a (possibly not true) story about McCartney and Harrison, IIRC, taking a long bus journey across Liverpool to meet someone who knew how to play a B7 chord.

[EssentialTension]

[quote name='thumbo' timestamp='1362342074' post='1998712']
How many hours practice per day do you think is 'serious'?
[/quote]
Eight hours, including gigs, sessions, rehearsals and, if none of those, then practice.

Here's Pablo Casals who was still practising several hours a day in his seventies in case he might improve himself:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KX1YtvFZOj0

[Myke]

I hope to

[JamesBass]

I'm working towards a career in music, currently studying a HND in Music Performance as well as pushing the life out of a band! I'll get there just don't know where there will be and how, but that's half the fun right?!

[Musky]

I think something to bear in mind is that most of the people on this site are in their 40s/50s, so as you point out a career in music may not be upper most in the minds of many on here. And of course the ones that are putting in the hours every day are the ones who don't have the time to be browsing bass forums.

[risingson]

My parents learnt during my grammar school years that grounding me when I didn't do homework was hopeless, the way to really create any kind of meaningful punishment was to stop me from playing my bass. They considered doing it once or twice but they never could bring themselves to do it.

I'm 23, nearly 24. Up until March last year my plans were very much to make a living from playing music. This had been reasonably successful up until one or two setbacks forced me to rethink my position and I've had to take up a temporary job to fill a gap between the times that I'm performing and recording and the times I am not. I am probably at the position where I'm almost ready to drop my job and get back to focusing on making my living from music, the hardest question nowadays for people my age (indeed anyone trying to live from being a musician) is how you make that living and what you deem as an acceptable salary to afford you the life that you desire.

It's a really hard place to hammer out any kind of living. I know guys who are playing for moderate to big name artists as session musicians making considerably less than I could from playing a year's worth of weddings with cover bands, and conversely I could be playing with my originals band and making moderate to little headway into signing with a decent label and doing a tour, again for very little money. It's got to a stage where I'm now trying to consolidate where I fit in as a musician, am I to be considered a hired gun and make a little for myself or do I push for more with the hope of making something big of myself only to be rewarded with very little in return?

There really aren't any easy answers and things are only getting harder and harder, the best I can do is spread myself thin and hope for the best.


[quote name='EssentialTension' timestamp='1362342587' post='1998724']
I'm reminded of a (possibly not true) story about McCartney and Harrison, IIRC, taking a long bus journey across Liverpool to meet someone who knew how to play a B7 chord.
[/quote]

Love that story, be it true or not, the difference nowadays being that if you need to learn how a B7 chord works then you simply Youtube a video tutorial of it. Music is so incredibly far removed from what it used to be.

Edited March 3, 2013 by risingson

[ambient]

I'm a student at a music college in London. One thing that we're told is that session work pretty much doesn't exist anymore. To make a living from music you need to have a portfolio approach, session work when it comes up, gigging, teaching, writing and composing, writing in a journalistic way e.g. magazines and online. Playing more than one instrument is a must, we're taught keyboards as well as percussion and vocals. We're also taught music technology and production, as well as arranging, so those are other avenues open to us after we graduate.

I'm doing probably about 30 hours a week practicing my bass playing.

I also spend about another 5 hours a week on aural practice, doing lots of transcribing and interval practice, and another 20 hours or composing and working on music tech projects arranging and mixing. I also try and do at least 30 minutes to an hour a day practising keyboards.

Edited March 3, 2013 by ambient

[Wil]

Never even considered it to be a viable option for paying rent, to be honest.

[icastle]

I spent about 5 years as a session musician when I was in my mid 20's.

I did quite well out of it, it paid a 50% deposit on my first house and I always had a few quid 'spare' in the bank at the end of each week.

The thing that changed my whole attitude to music was regularly going on tour with various artists and spending so much time away from home.
I came to the realisation that I'm a guy who needs some 'roots' in his life, a place where I know where I am and, equally, where I am knows me.

The final straw was waking up in yet another bland 'carbon copy' room in yet another carbon copy hotel and realising I had absolutely no idea which town I was in.

I finished the tour and gently moved away from the music business over the next few months and tentatively changed careers.

[LiamPodmore]

I'm planning on heading to ICMP to study bass next year, with a friend who's doing songwriting. Whether it will lead to anything, who knows, but if it doesn't, I'm fairly well qualified in IT for my age so I have other less interesting avenues. I know there's a guy on here who went to uni doing bass and plays for Jessie J at the moment.

Liam

[BassTractor]

IME, music students to a large degree planned for their solo careers without considering enough that only a few of them would make it, and most of them would end up like teachers or, if they were lucky, as orchestra musicians.

The realism that is shown in threads like these may seem a trifle void of hope or trust in oneself, but OTOH does protect people from failing miserably.

Still, I'd say: go for it. Work your ass off doing what you love, but also make sure that you're realistic in your expectations, and know what you can accept as alternative ways of surviving.


best,
bert

[SlapbassSteve]

I'm 21 and I've been working toward a career in music for about four years now, it's finally starting to pay off. Last summer I declined staying with my parents in Shropshire and managed to pay food rent and bills etc with the cash I was making from gigs- it's difficult sometimes when your next meal depends on your last gig but at the same time extremely rewarding.

Ambient's music college have the right idea with the portfolio approach, the secret is definitely in being able to cover all the basses(aha...)... I'm currently just about bothering with the third year of a music degree which is increasingly looking like a total waste of time and money, due to an apparent rather snobbish total lack of respect for popular music in all but a select few lecturers... I'd much rather be being taught how to not be screwed over by the scumbag running a pub round the corner that's just offered you an unpaid 'audition' gig then be taught repeatedly for three years how Beethoven is the best thing to ever happen to anything [size=4] [/size]

I used to practice roughly eight hours a day but nowadays it's closer to one or two as I'm out gigging on average 4-5 nights a week with my covers band, ukulele orchestra, duo, or sometimes hosting/co-hosting an open mic(when I can get one that is, they're absolutely EVERYWHERE in Liverpool at the moment). I've appeared on a couple of small-scale music videos for a local TV station as a guitarist as well, with a few more in the offing. Hoping to get more function work with the covers band soon, if I can break out of the pub circuit I'll be set [size=4] [/size]

[ambient]

[quote name='LiamPodmore' timestamp='1362350310' post='1998884']
I'm planning on heading to ICMP to study bass next year, with a friend who's doing songwriting. Whether it will lead to anything, who knows, but if it doesn't, I'm fairly well qualified in IT for my age so I have other less interesting avenues. I know there's a guy on here who went to uni doing bass and plays for Jessie J at the moment.

Liam
[/quote]

That's where I go. I figure it's best to at least try, if a career in music doesn't happen then at least you've tried. Having a degree opens doors for you anyway, teaching etc.

Having an open mind and having a portfolio of skills should mean that you do OK.

[Chrismanbass]

[quote name='LiamPodmore' timestamp='1362350310' post='1998884']
I know there's a guy on here who went to uni doing bass and plays for Jessie J at the moment.
[/quote]

Thats Phil Simmonds he went to Tech Music School

however i would say that he's the exception rather than the rule for us that study bass at uni
from what i understand phil got that gig by being a phenomenal player and networking relentlessly
the whole time he was at uni

one thing i would say is that studying bass at somewhere like ICMP is not tantamount to a career in music,
you will encounter many people who are there for entirely the wrong reasons and in some situations saying that
you have studied at these places will actually hinder you getting gigs

On the other hand studying bass is an incredible experience you will learn so much and become a much better player
for it i'm in my final year of a music degree (not at ICMP but a competing school) and i don't regret a second of it

of course i'm not trying to put you off just sharing some of my experience as a student in london

if you'd like to chat sometime about it liam your more than welcome to PM me

Edited March 3, 2013 by Chrismanbass

[risingson]

[quote name='SlapbassSteve' timestamp='1362350818' post='1998896']
I'm currently just about bothering with the third year of a music degree which is increasingly looking like a total waste of time and money, due to an apparent rather snobbish total lack of respect for popular music in all but a select few lecturers...
[/quote]

You've got to be at LIPA

I studied for two years there before I dropped out, for a lot of reasons really but mostly because of the dawning realisation that I wasn't getting anything out of Uni that I couldn't be doing on my own. There is an upside to studying at a music college in as much as it affords you a decent set of contacts for later life, but then you've got to ask yourself whether those contacts you have in your phone could have simply been compiled through your own hard work and diligence working hard freelancing as a musician by yourself. None of the graduates from my year are necessarily doing any better than I am, most are struggling along doing almost exactly what I'm doing which is doing the best youcan to make ends meet.

[quote name='Chrismanbass' timestamp='1362351004' post='1998902']
Thats Phil Simmonds he went to Tech Music School

however i would say that he's the exception rather than the rule for us that study bass at uni
from what i understand phil got that gig by being a phenomenal player and networking relentlessly
the whole time he was at uni
[/quote]

He's not the exception though, that's just what it takes. Working day and night to get the work that he wanted. Too many musicians wandering into music colleges and hoping for the best when they come out, like a degree affords you something and of course it doesn't, it's just a slip of paper in this line of work.

Edited March 3, 2013 by risingson

[4 Strings]

Its a good question. I'm in my early 50s and its more likely for me now than ever. When I was much younger I was far to cautious, no idea why. I then had a family, certainly no regrets about that but priorities and focus change. Funnily enough my wife always encouraged me to try an make a career in music, but I always felt too old and not good enough.

Now I'm earning some pin money playing it's made me hungry. I'm still not really good enough but better at playing than I've ever been and with my two boys have both left for uni (doing music degrees and at a much higher level of music than I aver attained) and working freelance I am more free for playing bass than before.

I would sincerely LOVE to earn my living in this way. Not just to be playing every day but also to be rewarded and recognised as such. However I would wonder that committing to endless hours of practicing has no point if no-one knows about you. I would have to commit half that time getting myself about.

[Chrismanbass]

[quote name='risingson' timestamp='1362351388' post='1998914']
Too many musicians wandering into music colleges and hoping for the best when they come out, like a degree affords you something and of course it doesn't, it's just a slip of paper in this line of work.
[/quote]

hence why i don't necessarily tell people i go to tech when i'm networking unfortunately its too easy to get tarred with the same brush before people know you

[risingson]

[quote name='Chrismanbass' timestamp='1362351663' post='1998919']
hence why i don't necessarily tell people i go to tech when i'm networking unfortunately its too easy to get tarred with the same brush before people know you
[/quote]

Yes absolutely, it's almost a hinderance in some cases. I don't mean to appear bitter about it all either, I made more than a few contacts and got plenty a gig from my college, it's good experience if you're the right kind of person, but there is probably a bit of a stigma appearing surrounding music colleges.

[LiamPodmore]

[quote name='Chrismanbass' timestamp='1362351004' post='1998902']
Thats Phil Simmonds he went to Tech Music School

however i would say that he's the exception rather than the rule for us that study bass at uni
from what i understand phil got that gig by being a phenomenal player and networking relentlessly
the whole time he was at uni

one thing i would say is that studying bass at somewhere like ICMP is not tantamount to a career in music,
you will encounter many people who are there for entirely the wrong reasons and in some situations saying that
you have studied at these places will actually hinder you getting gigs

On the other hand studying bass is an incredible experience you will learn so much and become a much better player
for it i'm in my final year of a music degree (not at ICMP but a competing school) and i don't regret a second of it

of course i'm not trying to put you off just sharing some of my experience as a student in london

if you'd like to chat sometime about it liam your more than welcome to PM me
[/quote]

I understand all of this from looking at it these past few months. Phil is an exceptional player, he has to be to land a gig that good. Hard work is essential to really make what is a fairly specific course worth it and get what everyone hopes to achieve out of it. Even if a career in music is impossible for me, the experience and the gains to my musical abilities will be more than worth it, and will be put to good use either way. Thanks for the PM offer, I'll probably make use of that, and likewise, if there's anything else you think I should know, I'm more than happy to listen to someone with experience of what I want to do.

Liam

[SlapbassSteve]

[quote name='risingson' timestamp='1362351388' post='1998914']
You've got to be at LIPA

I studied for two years there before I dropped out, for a lot of reasons really but mostly because of the dawning realisation that I wasn't getting anything out of Uni that I couldn't be doing on my own. There is an upside to studying at a music college in as much as it affords you a decent set of contacts for later life, but then you've got to ask yourself whether those contacts you have in your phone could have simply been compiled through your own hard work and diligence working hard freelancing as a musician by yourself. None of the graduates from my year are necessarily doing any better than I am, most are struggling along doing almost exactly what I'm doing which is doing the best youcan to make ends meet.

[/quote]

Originally really wanted to go to LIPA but was rejected at the first stage as my demo apparently wasn't good enough... ended up at Hope. Stigma-wise I'm genuinely not sure which is worse! [size=4] Only really in it for the student loan now, without that I'd have dropped out a long time ago... one left to go, and after the amount I've just spent on a new PA system for my uke band it's going to be like xmas has come early![/size]

[Chrismanbass]

[quote name='LiamPodmore' timestamp='1362352504' post='1998938']
I understand all of this from looking at it these past few months. Phil is an exceptional player, he has to be to land a gig that good. Hard work is essential to really make what is a fairly specific course worth it and get what everyone hopes to achieve out of it. Even if a career in music is impossible for me, the experience and the gains to my musical abilities will be more than worth it, and will be put to good use either way. Thanks for the PM offer, I'll probably make use of that, and likewise, if there's anything else you think I should know, I'm more than happy to listen to someone with experience of what I want to do.

Liam
[/quote]

not a problem mate just go in with your eyes and ears open and you'll do well i don't believe a career in music is impossible for you or for that matter anyone who is willing to put in the work but it is exactly that a lot of work with for the most part very little reward apart from the satisfaction of knowing you're doing something most people don't get to do which is making a living from your interest

[SteveK]

[quote name='thumbo' timestamp='1362342074' post='1998712']
How many hours practice per day do you think is 'serious'?
[/quote]
How long is a piece of string?... problem is, if a chap never picks up said piece of string, how is a chap able to measure it?
To be serious though, I think what struck me most about the 'Practice' thread was the lack of commitment, devotion, single-mindedness, call it what-you-will from the contributors. When I was a kid my friends and I were obsessed with learning to play guitars... we wanted to be pop stars, and the only way was to be f***in' good at your chosen instrument, which meant putting the hours in, probably 3 hours on a school day and more at weekends.
No music techs or colleges for the likes of us

[quote name='Musky' timestamp='1362344674' post='1998768']
I think something to bear in mind is that most of the people on this site are in their 40s/50s,
[/quote]
That's a fair point, and probably correct. I kind of assume that when I come here that I'm mixing with young whipper-snappers...
actually, now that I think about it, most of you are comparative whipper-snappers

BTW I totally believe the story of one of The Beatles taking a bus journey in search of the lost (B7) chord. Even when I was starting (a few years later, I hasten to add) it was quite normal to hook up with other aspiring [s]pop stars[/s] musicians to share tips and tricks.