Jaco's bass?

[mentalextra]

[quote name='xilddx' timestamp='1362512486' post='2000615']
Musicians like that are obsessed with music, as long as the instrument enables them to express themselves, most of the couldn't give a toss about what else is out there. Why would they? It's almost only us amateurs that keep thinking we could really 'speak' through a Fodera, or a pre CBS Precision, or whatever bollocks.
[/quote]

Well yeah, but I remember hearing a similar question about classical music composers and electronics and synthesisers. Would Brahms or Beethoven have used a synthesiser or drum machine if one was available, I think absolutely they would have. If you are pushing musical boundaries why not.

[Kiwi]

[quote name='risingson' timestamp='1362512540' post='2000618']
Jaco likely won't have cared about upgrading his instrument providing that it played well, after all he was rather good on the old electric bass and if something ain't broke then why fix it? Likely he didn't need the hassle. It's also not entirely true that he didn't include at least one or two mods on his instruments, he was known to use P-Bass necks on Jazz basses so that he could get a stretch on with his left hand, something about him cramping up on jazz bass necks.
[/quote]
The interviews written about him show he was very particular about His sound though.

[Grangur]

Billy Sheehan, in one old vid I saw, talks about working on a new bass he got where he gouged a hole for his thumb to sit. So "mint" condition doesn't seem to matter to everyone.

[BetaFunk]

[quote name='mentalextra' timestamp='1362512502' post='2000616']
Yeah, but surely, at his level, he would be surrounded by luthiers examining the minutest problem with his bass, especially the DIY defret
[/quote]
His basses were looked after but not to the extent a touring supergroups equipment would be today.

[xilddx]

[quote name='mentalextra' timestamp='1362512682' post='2000623']
Well yeah, but I remember hearing a similar question about classical music composers and electronics and synthesisers. Would Brahms or Beethoven have used a synthesiser or drum machine if one was available, I think absolutely they would have. If you are pushing musical boundaries why not.
[/quote]

Do you really think Beethoven (or anyone) would think the piano could be improved upon?

[mentalextra]

[quote name='Grangur' timestamp='1362512815' post='2000631']
Billy Sheehan, in one old vid I saw, talks about working on a new bass he got where he gouged a hole for his thumb to sit. So "mint" condition doesn't seem to matter to everyone.
[/quote]

Is that the special 6 string Fender built for him

[risingson]

[quote name='Kiwi' timestamp='1362512790' post='2000629']
The interviews written about him show he was very particular about His sound though.
[/quote]

Definitely, but limited to what was essentially stock Fenders minus the frets + his Acoustic rig to get what he wanted from his bass for the most part I thought. I know he was fond of brand new strings too.

[BetaFunk]

[quote name='Kiwi' timestamp='1362512529' post='2000617']
I should also mention that John Diggins (Jaydee) made Jaco 5 black fretless jazz style basses and was on the verge of endorsing him just before Jaco was beaten up. So he ALMOST got endorsed. A basschatter has one of those instruments in their collection.
[/quote]
He did have a deal with Guild and also there's the Hartke connection where they built a cab for him.

[thisnameistaken]

[quote name='mentalextra' timestamp='1362512682' post='2000623']


Well yeah, but I remember hearing a similar question about classical music composers and electronics and synthesisers. Would Brahms or Beethoven have used a synthesiser or drum machine if one was available, I think absolutely they would have. If you are pushing musical boundaries why not.
[/quote]

You're talking about composers, of course if new instruments are invented they will consider writing for them. That's different to an instrumentalist trying a hundred different instruments when they've already found one that plays well and sounds good.

[Dave Vader]

Pretty sure I read somewhere that Jaco's original defret was a total pigs arse of a job, and it did get redone by a luthier later on. the same guy who rebuilt the bass of doom after Jaco killed it.
Like many great musicians, he enjoyed lying about stuff in interviews though.
Plus 2 to the musicians who are not bothered by shiny gear, but just want to play music, and once they find something they like playing, why change it, easier to keep playing on something you're used to.

[xilddx]

[quote name='thisnameistaken' timestamp='1362515952' post='2000719']
You're talking about composers, of course if new instruments are invented they will consider writing for them. That's different to an instrumentalist trying a hundred different instruments when they've already found one that plays well and sounds good.
[/quote]
It's because most amateurs don't really have a concept of what they want to say through music I think. Play and learn, play and learn, play and learn, buy another Precision, play and learn, play and learn, buy another Precision, play and learn, play and learn, sell a Precision, play and learn, play and learn, play and learn, buy a Jazz, play and learn, ooh I like that harmonic, play and learn, play and learn, buy a Goodfellow, play and learn ..

[TheGreek]

My understanding is that towards the end of his life, due to his Alcohol misuse, Jaco was in a pretty bad way mentally - he was admitted to a Hospital in his latter days - he was also prone to leaving his bass in a basket ball court and dragging it around in a bin bag which probably goes some way to explaining why it was in pretty poor condition.

Despite this he was still able to live up to his own claims of being "the best bass player in the world" - and remember "it ain't bragging if it's true" (Jaco's words).

RIP Jaco.

Edited March 5, 2013 by TheGreek

[BetaFunk]

[quote name='TheGreek' timestamp='1362517281' post='2000743']
My understanding is that towards the end of his life, due to his Alcohol misuse, Jaco was in a pretty bad way mentally - he was admitted to a Hospital in his letter days - he was also prone to leaving his bass in a basket ball court and dragging it around in a bin bag which probably goes some way to explaining why it was in pretty poor condition.
[/quote]
His bass has lots of dings and etc well before that. It was just a well worn and well gigged bass. Have a look at any Jaco period Weather Report video to see the condition of it in the 70s.

[dlloyd]

[quote name='BetaFunk' timestamp='1362512428' post='2000612']
I doubt it. At the time it was usually 'cool' to have a shiny new bass or guitar. If you got a ding in your guitar or bass in the 70s (and you could afford it) you'd px it for a brand new one. There are even tales of guitarists in UK bands when touring the U.S. would trade in their 'last years' guitars for new ones. Relics just weren't the fashion back then.
[/quote]

For pop musicians maybe.

For "serious musicians", I'd say the opposite was true. The 70s was when the pre-CBS craze took off, when guitarists realised that the older ones were "better" than the then current crop. Certainly for blues and jazz musicians there is a certain cachet in owning an old instrument that has been played to death. Look at Eric Clapton's and Rory Gallagher's strats from this period... Look at Pat Metheny's ES175...

Part of it is down to having found [i]the[/i] best instrument out there and [i]genuinely[/i] playing it for long enough that bits start falling off it. No new instrument can touch it, so why replace it? The rest is people wanting to project that image.

[LukeFRC]

[quote name='mentalextra' timestamp='1362512502' post='2000616']
Yeah, but surely, at his level, he would be surrounded by luthiers examining the minutest problem with his bass, especially the DIY defret
[/quote] why? The best chef in the world probably won't let almost anyone touch his best knives. They are a tool to do his job- and as long as they do the job, and work in his/her hands in a way they want they arn't going to change them even if someone brings some knife with a fancier blade out. They are tools.
I disagree with the way you suggest almost that a (modified) standard jazz bass would need to be "upgraded" somehow - firstly look at the price preCBS jazz basses go for - they have a reputation of being good instruments anyway, and secondly it's a tool - and if it does the job the artist wants it to it doesn't need to be "changed" for different style just 'cos someone come up with active preamps or something! If you talk to any of the pro musicians on here above a certain level I've tended to see that they will keep hold of their main bass (or basses) for many many years. The constant swapping/changing/upgrading we see so many of us do on Basschat (myself included) are not really the mark of a pro musician.

Put another way- I did art at Art School. I'm pretty good. You can get some really really expensive pens and brushes and paints. I'm talking £100 brushes. I've tended to use a 20p Biro. It's a tool.

[xilddx]

[quote name='mentalextra' timestamp='1362512502' post='2000616']
Yeah, but surely, at his level, he would be surrounded by luthiers examining the minutest problem with his bass, especially the DIY defret
[/quote]
Really? How would they dare? Haven't you f***ed around with your instruments yourself? It's fun and you learn a lot, and it helps develop your sound and the intimacy you have with your instrument.

[OliverBlackman]

[quote name='mentalextra' timestamp='1362512502' post='2000616']
Yeah, but surely, at his level, he would be surrounded by luthiers examining the minutest problem with his bass, especially the DIY defret
[/quote]

Jaco was already at the age of 19 working as a guitar repairer and obviously had a lot of confidence in himself. Theres a lot written about Jaco and it does'nt take much of a search to find a lot about him in great detail.

[BetaFunk]

[quote name='dlloyd' timestamp='1362521312' post='2000870']
For pop musicians maybe.

For "serious musicians", I'd say the opposite was true. The 70s was when the pre-CBS craze took off, when guitarists realised that the older ones were "better" than the then current crop. Certainly for blues and jazz musicians there is a certain cachet in owning an old instrument that has been played to death. Look at Eric Clapton's and Rory Gallagher's strats from this period... Look at Pat Metheny's ES175...

Part of it is down to having found [i]the[/i] best instrument out there and [i]genuinely[/i] playing it for long enough that bits start falling off it. No new instrument can touch it, so why replace it? The rest is people wanting to project that image.
[/quote]
Serious musicians? You going have to explain that one to me.

I knew someone would bring up Rory Gallagher's Strats. You could add to that Kossoff's Les Paul and many other's that were well and truly used but generally most guitarists and bass players in the 60s and 70s wanted a nice new shiny guitar or bass.
I remember in an interview Clapton said he used to trade his Strats in for new one's every year when he went to the U.S.
I also remember Pat Metheny having very nice looking guitars (they certainly weren't anything like the condition Jaco's) when i saw him in the 70s

[thisnameistaken]

[quote name='BetaFunk' timestamp='1362518769' post='2000798']

His bass has lots of dings and etc well before that. It was just a well worn and well gigged bass. Have a look at any Jaco period Weather Report video to see the condition of it in the 70s.
[/quote]

Totally. Look at Billy Sheehan's old P bass, it had just been played a lot. Not necessarily abused. He played some of most technically challenging stuff on that - why didn't he do it on an Alembic instead?

Draw your own conclusion.

[BetaFunk]

[quote name='mentalextra' timestamp='1362512502' post='2000616']
Yeah, but surely, at his level, he would be surrounded by luthiers examining the minutest problem with his bass, especially the DIY defret
[/quote]
When he pulled the frets out of his bass he wasn't famous so no he wouldn't have been surrounded by luthiers. Fame came a lot later.

[dlloyd]

[quote name='BetaFunk' timestamp='1362523252' post='2000915']
Serious musicians? You going have to explain that one to me.[/quote]

I was being facetious.

[quote]I knew someone would bring up Rory Gallagher's Strats. You could add to that Kossoff's Les Paul and many other's that were well and truly used but generally most guitarists and bass players in the 60s and 70s wanted a nice new shiny guitar or bass.
I remember in an interview Clapton said he used to trade his Strats in for new one's every year when he went to the U.S.[/quote]

Clapton almost exclusively used the one strat, "Blackie" throughout the 1970s to 1985. Then it genuinely became too fragile to use regularly.

[quote]I also remember Pat Metheny having very nice looking guitars (they certainly weren't anything like the condition Jaco's) when i saw him in the 70s
[/quote]

I was thinking particularly of this one:



"[color=#000000]When I was about 16 the little thing to hold the strap on broke off while I was at a gig. I stuck a toothbrush in there so I could stand up, and it's been there ever since. This was originally a one-pickup guitar, and I put another pickup and set of controls in there. After the experimental pickup started falling out one night, I took it out and covered up the holes. There's gaffer's tape along the sides of the guitar because there are big cracks in there." Guitar Player Dec 1981[/color]

Edited March 5, 2013 by dlloyd

[chris_b]

The phrase "pre CBS" was already in common use by 1968.

As has been said, the music was the only important thing and the tools were just that. You bought your Fender and stopped gassing. You'd just reached the top.

Don't try to read modern attitudes into anything pre 1976. You'll come up with the wrong conclusion every time.

[Russ]

The Bass Of Doom obviously had its own sound - even today, with the bass having been completely rebuilt literally from pieces, it still sounds much the same as it did in Jaco's hands. He obviously knew he had a good 'un and played the hell out of it, hence all the wear.

Here it is being played by Victor Bailey, Will Lee and Vic Wooten:

[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mp1L-Vw0Ems[/media]

[BetaFunk]

[quote name='dlloyd' timestamp='1362524125' post='2000929']
I was being facetious.
[/quote]
Me too.

[BetaFunk]

[quote name='dlloyd' timestamp='1362524125' post='2000929']

I was thinking particularly of this one:



"[color=#000000]When I was about 16 the little thing to hold the strap on broke off while I was at a gig. I stuck a toothbrush in there so I could stand up, and it's been there ever since. This was originally a one-pickup guitar, and I put another pickup and set of controls in there. After the experimental pickup started falling out one night, I took it out and covered up the holes. There's gaffer's tape along the sides of the guitar because there are big cracks in there." Guitar Player Dec 1981[/color]
[/quote]
I've seen Metheny's ES-175 from a few feet away. It didn't look anywhere in the condition Jaco's bass ever was. All the other guitars i've seen him play including his Ibanez (PM-20?) and his Linda Manzer acoustic always look in really superb nick.