charic Posted March 7, 2013 Share Posted March 7, 2013 Is it a terrible idea to connect an amp to a cab when the amp is rated higher than the cab? I understand that "use your ears" is the usual sentiment, no problem with that just checking before I pull the trigger really. I currently have a rather awesome Berg NV610 (rated 750w/4Ohms) and am really liking the Hartke Kilo as my next amp (1000w/4Ohms). So I could "technically" use the Hartke to 3/4 of it's potential. I'm just wondering how much of a risk is involved with this idea? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
discreet Posted March 7, 2013 Share Posted March 7, 2013 None, imho. Realistically you're not going to be running the Kilo at full whack, are you? The building will collapse first. I think 'use your ears' is about right, but a 1kW amp into a 750W cab should be fine. Bergs are fairly bulletproof, anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
obbm Posted March 7, 2013 Share Posted March 7, 2013 It's never worried me. How many times have you ever run your head flat out? NV610 is probably 5.3-ohms anyway, they only label it 4-ohms for those who don't understand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost_Bass Posted March 7, 2013 Share Posted March 7, 2013 Well... for home practise, rehearsalls and small gigs/jams i'm using a Genz Benz Shuttle 9.0 (900W in 4Ohm) with a Ashdown Mi10 (250W at 4Ohm)... That knob with the word "volume" stamped underneath makes sure i don't smell smoke For "proper" gigs i use the Thunderfunk with the Super12T. Go ahead, the "use your ears" advise is the best one you'll ever need. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charic Posted March 7, 2013 Author Share Posted March 7, 2013 [quote name='discreet' timestamp='1362657120' post='2002790'] None, imho. Realistically you're not going to be running the Kilo at full whack, are you? The building will collapse first. [/quote] I have no intention of running it at full whack like you say I think I would notice the structural damage before that point This is me being my cautious self before going ahead with a purchase Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charic Posted March 7, 2013 Author Share Posted March 7, 2013 [quote name='Ghost_Bass' timestamp='1362657351' post='2002797'] That knob with the word "volume" stamped underneath makes sure i don't smell smoke [/quote] I was engineering a gig where the volume control on a guitar amp ran backwards. That was bloody confusing! He was running really loud so ran up on stage saw it on what I thought was "nearly full whack", pulled it down bloody quick. Cue me falling on my arse! It was like getting hit in the face with a hammer! I'd just cranked it up instead of down Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
discreet Posted March 7, 2013 Share Posted March 7, 2013 [quote name='charic' timestamp='1362657646' post='2002804'] This is me being my cautious self before going ahead with a purchase [/quote] I think you'll be quite safe! Pics ASAP, please. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost_Bass Posted March 7, 2013 Share Posted March 7, 2013 [quote name='charic' timestamp='1362657794' post='2002808'] I was engineering a gig where the volume control on a guitar amp ran backwards. That was bloody confusing! He was running really loud so ran up on stage saw it on what I thought was "nearly full whack", pulled it down bloody quick. Cue me falling on my arse! It was like getting hit in the face with a hammer! I'd just cranked it up instead of down [/quote] That's a nice trick! I need that mod on my amps for the next time the drummer asks me to lower my volume! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charic Posted March 7, 2013 Author Share Posted March 7, 2013 [quote name='discreet' timestamp='1362657885' post='2002812'] I think you'll be quite safe! Pics ASAP, please. [/quote] Will do! I plan on getting a new full family shot once it's in. Need to wait for the paycheck to come through first unfortunately Next I just need a regularly gigging band. My audition tomorrow is for a folk(ish) type band so I won't get to run it hard there. I've just seen one of the death metal bands I'm playing with are now advertising for a bassist again (it was the first time I'd played with all of them and it wasn't a particular comfortable run through personality wise, fair enough... they could have said something though). I need to get Cerberus Cell back up and at full steam... could have fun with it there! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charic Posted March 7, 2013 Author Share Posted March 7, 2013 [quote name='Ghost_Bass' timestamp='1362657982' post='2002814'] That's a nice trick! I need that mod on my amps for the next time the drummer asks me to lower my volume! [/quote] make sure you tell the sound engineer will you My drummers always ask me to turn up Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dad3353 Posted March 7, 2013 Share Posted March 7, 2013 (edited) Good afternoon, Charic... The manufacturer specs this cab at 103 db at 1 metre, from 1 watt. 10 x the watts will give a perceived volume increase of about 10 db, 10w will push out 113 db. 10x more (100w...) will bring us to 123 db (still at 1 metre...) 10 x more still (1000w...) give out 133 db. These are just rough numbers (a lot depends on frequency and all, but it gives some idea...) Here is a table of comparative real world db levels... [left][b]130[/b]: Military jet aircraft take-off from aircraft carrier with afterburner at 50 ft (130 dB). [/left] [left][b]120[/b]: Thunderclap, chain saw. Oxygen torch (121 dB).[/left] Painful. 32 times as loud as 70 dB. [left][b]110[/b]: Steel mill, auto horn at 1 meter. Turbo-fan aircraft at takeoff power at 200 ft (118 dB). Riveting machine (110 dB); [b]live rock music (108 - 114 dB).[/b][/left] Average human pain threshold. 16 times as loud as 70 dB. [left][b]100[/b]: Jet take-off (at 305 meters), use of outboard motor, power lawn mower, motorcycle, farm tractor, jackhammer, garbage truck. Boeing 707 or DC-8 aircraft at one nautical mile (6080 ft) before landing (106 dB); jet flyover at 1000 feet (103 dB); Bell J-2A helicopter at 100 ft (100 dB).[/left] 8 times as loud as 70 dB. Serious damage possible in 8 hr exposure As we can see, 110 is around pain threshold, 120 like a chainsaw. Does this answer you question..? The real test is to play at your normal levels. If it sounds louder than a chainsaw, and is causing pain at 1 metre, then you're putting out around 100w, and the cab should handle that. Once you get to sound as loud as a jet plane with afterburner, the cab may start to suffer somewhat (the indication would be a 'farting' sound, but you'll now too deaf to hear that...). The short answer is... There are very, very few venues that will allow anyone to play at these kind of levels. If you're really pumping out close to a kilowatt, there is a very serious problem (mostly pyschiatric, I would suggest...). That cab will be fine with that amp, as long as you don't drop the bass, or unplug with the amp volume at 'max'. You will get a high-quality, distortion-free bass sound as long as you're reasonable with the volume. You'll know when it's too loud; the plaster starts to flake off the ceiling in large(ish...) lumps. Hope this helps; subject to correction by others... Edited March 7, 2013 by Dad3353 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyfisher Posted March 7, 2013 Share Posted March 7, 2013 [quote name='Dad3353' timestamp='1362658538' post='2002823'] As we can see, 110 is around pain threshold, 120 like a chainsaw. [/quote] Hmm. I regularly use my chainsaw. It's loud but it's nowhere near painful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charic Posted March 7, 2013 Author Share Posted March 7, 2013 [quote name='Dad3353' timestamp='1362658538' post='2002823'] The short answer is... There are very, very few venues that will allow anyone to play at these kind of levels. If you're really pumping out close to a kilowatt, there is a very serious problem (mostly pyschiatric, I would suggest...). [/quote] Hey Dad, Thanks for the post it really was informative and enjoyable (not a great deal to comment on as it's all factually sound afaik. The highlighted section did briefly have me in stitches though Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dood Posted March 7, 2013 Share Posted March 7, 2013 Charic! Good choice on the Kilo! We had such good feedback about them at LBGS - it s a beast, but it sounds big and fat. I use mine in bridge mode connected to a 4.5xl which is only rated at 400W RMS at 8 Ohms. It's totally fine if you watch the volume. If the cones are flapping back and forth, then cut out the sub frequencies below 30hz - that will stop any farting out and over excursion of the cones trying to produce frequencies they will struggle to anyway. Wasted energy. Actually, if i think about it, when I use two 4x10's thats still only 800W at 4 ohms - so yup, that's closer to your specs and it is fine fine fine! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dad3353 Posted March 7, 2013 Share Posted March 7, 2013 [quote name='flyfisher' timestamp='1362659140' post='2002839'] Hmm. I regularly use my chainsaw. It's loud but it's nowhere near painful. [/quote] Good afternoon, flyfisher (or may I call you 'fly'..?)... You're right it's more likely to be 110 db (at 1 metre; how far from it are you..?). Mine's electric, but is still wearing on the ears (and arms, but I digress...). Here's a little gadget to play with... [url="http://www.caohc.org/publications/meter.php"]http://www.caohc.org/publications/meter.php[/url] ...with the volume turned down low on the PC. We're slightly off topic, though, I fear... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raggy Posted March 7, 2013 Share Posted March 7, 2013 I used to run a Berg 412 with a Markbass SD1200 in a damn loud Punk band, had no issues at all. Them Bergs can take a lot up 'em!!!! Im actually looking at a Kilo to partner my Dubster at the mo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyfisher Posted March 7, 2013 Share Posted March 7, 2013 [quote name='Dad3353' timestamp='1362660603' post='2002869'] Good afternoon, flyfisher (or may I call you 'fly'..?)... You're right it's more likely to be 110 db (at 1 metre; how far from it are you..?). Mine's electric, but is still wearing on the ears (and arms, but I digress...). Here's a little gadget to play with... [url="http://www.caohc.org/publications/meter.php"]http://www.caohc.org...tions/meter.php[/url] ...with the volume turned down low on the PC. We're slightly off topic, though, I fear... [/quote] Fly is fine. Or Mike. I wasn't really being as flippant as my post may have come across. I was just surprised to see a chainsaw as being louder than the 'pain threshold', though I guess that could be a bit subjective. The biggest pain is in the back from all the leaning over! My chainsaw is certainly loud but I don't find it painful, or even uncomfortable really (my arms are of average length, so I'm rarely more than 1m away from it ). Perhaps it's a time thing, because it's rarely running at full revs for more than 20 secs or so before ticking over while changing position etc. OTOH, my ears will ring slightly if I spend any length of time on the lawn mower or my old tractor, so I always wear ear defenders for those. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris_b Posted March 7, 2013 Share Posted March 7, 2013 [quote name='obbm' timestamp='1362657199' post='2002791'] ....How many times have you ever run your head flat out? NV610 is probably 5.3-ohms anyway, they only label it 4-ohms for those who don't understand.... [/quote] +1 If you are using more than 200 watts I'd be very suprised. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Jack Posted March 7, 2013 Share Posted March 7, 2013 Yes, but they might be valve watts ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charic Posted March 7, 2013 Author Share Posted March 7, 2013 [quote name='chris_b' timestamp='1362662603' post='2002918'] +1 If you are using more than 200 watts I'd be very suprised. [/quote] Currently that is very doubtful as I'm running a RH450 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charic Posted March 7, 2013 Author Share Posted March 7, 2013 [quote name='Raggy' timestamp='1362661400' post='2002890'] I used to run a Berg 412 with a Markbass SD1200 in a damn loud Punk band, had no issues at all. Them Bergs can take a lot up 'em!!!! Im actually looking at a Kilo to partner my Dubster at the mo [/quote] That'll be a bit loud then Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stingrayPete1977 Posted March 7, 2013 Share Posted March 7, 2013 What is the best chainsaw for metal? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dad3353 Posted March 7, 2013 Share Posted March 7, 2013 [quote name='stingrayPete1977' timestamp='1362680765' post='2003331'] What is the best chainsaw for metal? [/quote]Best..? Dunno, but here's one. Turn down (or better still, off...) your sound. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_7nKb7DZYss Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xgsjx Posted March 7, 2013 Share Posted March 7, 2013 Last time I used a chainsaw it was painful. Not so much for me, more so for the ex guitarist. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lozz196 Posted March 7, 2013 Share Posted March 7, 2013 [quote name='xgsjx' timestamp='1362684447' post='2003407'] Last time I used a chainsaw it was painful. Not so much for me, more so for the ex guitarist. [/quote] They just have to spoil everything, don`t they............. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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