Baer ML112

[hamfist]

Had a chance to try one of my two Baer ML112's out at band rehearsal last night, and I have to say it was almost a religious experience.
The presence of the bass in the band mix was just beautiful. Right there, but not overwhelming to anyone else at all. The frequency output of this cab are simply phenominal for rock.
With dirt the drive was present and crunchy, not harsh at all. THe sort of music is Foo Fighters, Muse, Fratellis, The Jam etc

I will say that this cab has the potential to be very bright (in an upper mids sort of way) though. I had to take a lot of upper mids out from the amp, to compensate. It was never a problem though, just a characteristic of the cab. Just shows how little of these frequencies most cabs put out maybe ?
If I were really nit-picking, it would be nice to have a dial control on the cab to control the mid-driver output. Also, it was noticeable that this cab was quieter than my GK 212 neo. OK, the neo has twice the cone area so that will have a lot to do with it.

I have had a fair few nice cabs over the last few years, TC Electronic RS cabs, a Schroeder 410, SWR Goliath 410, a Genz 810 XB3 and, most recently, A GK neo 212 II. This Baer cab is in another league entirely. It is everything I was hoping it would be. What I always used to struggle with was the frequency gap where the woofer finished and the horn/tweeter began. Those were frequencies that I really wanted a lot of control over, as to me, a lot of the bass's tonal character comes in those areas. THis Baer cab can do soft and smooth if I want it to (which isn't often !) but gives me all the control I want in all the frequencies I want it.
They are not cheap but that Baer chappie's a genius if you ask me. These are not going anywhere !

[andydye]

Glad to hear your gear hunt is nearing a conclusion matey!

Pics?

[chris_b]

If I had 2 I wouldn't be leaving one at home!

My experience with Bergantino 112 cabs is that 2 together sounds five times better than 1.

[JTUK]

Always a pair, for me...

[Bill Fitzmaurice]

[quote name='hamfist' timestamp='1362662020' post='2002899']
I will say that this cab has the potential to be very bright (in an upper mids sort of way) though. I had to take a lot of upper mids out from the amp, to compensate. It was never a problem though, just a characteristic of the cab. Just shows how little of these frequencies most cabs put out maybe ?
If I were really nit-picking, it would be nice to have a dial control on the cab to control the mid-driver output.
[/quote]You're just hearing for the first time frequencies that your bass produces but your speakers were unable to reproduce. Once you get used to it you won't feel the need to reduce the sensitivity of the midrange driver, you'll just wonder how you ever got along without it.
When it was being beta tested Roger asked my opinion of whether to add an LPad, as he saw that many testers automatically went to turn it down, even before turning the amp on, let alone hitting a single note, while setting all the EQ knobs at 12:00. Partly on my advice he didn't, and sure enough, eventually his beta testers figured out that those knobs are meant to be used, and once they had regained that long forgotten ability they found out that they really didn't need an LPad to get exactly the tone they wanted.

[R Baer]

Hamfist, glad to hear you are enjoying the cabs. What amp are you using with the ML's? I ask because many of todays amps have a sizable treble boost built into the "knobs at noon" setting, so it's normal to find the ML112 a bit bright in this area with some heads. The key here, like Bill mentioned, is to not worry about where your knobs are set and just turn them to where you like the sound and call it good. You will also find that with the ML112's, if you stack the pair horizontally, the low end is going to feel much bigger which will balance out the mid response. Even if the gig doesn't need you to be cranked, the two cabs together present a different feel, which I prefer due to the bigger low end. Stacking the cabs vertical will sound leaner and be more mid present. The good thing is that you can tailor the configuration quite a bit to match the gig. one, or two, horizontal or vertical.

Regarding the L-pad, one of the early prototypes had an L-pad, but pretty much everyone that tried the cab said they left it up full. If it's really not needed, then there is really no need to add extra components to the circuit path.

The ML112 was developed because I was trying to recreate the sound of our amp that I was hearing though a good mixer into very high end headphones. With that setup, it was easy to hear all the smallest nuances of the tube circuit, with all the added tube overtones and harmonics. Plugging the amp into the standard cabs that were available never would yield the same results. It just sounded like a whole lot of information was missing somehow. Once we got into the mid drivers and increased upper mid output, I felt the cab was able to recreate the sound I was hearing from the tube circuit in a live setting much better. Those extra mids may sound a bit too forward in your living room, but they really add a lot of definition and articulation to your playing onstage and it is very easy to hear slight changes in your EQ and technique with them.

Edited March 8, 2013 by R Baer

[IanA]

Really pleased that you are loving the cabs, on the amp side of things, Bass Direct have. Staccato 51 at bargain price, it is an amazing match up with those cabs. It has huge low end and a slightly scooped mid, this fits with the tone profile of the cab nicely and is the best match up that I have heard yet. Sounds huge live!

[Conan]

[quote name='chris_b' timestamp='1362663097' post='2002929']
2 together sounds five times better than 1.
[/quote]

More is more.

[chris_b]

[quote name='Conan' timestamp='1362730386' post='2003836']
....More is more....
[/quote]

Haha, always!

[hamfist]

[quote name='R Baer' timestamp='1362720100' post='2003798']
Hamfist, glad to hear you are enjoying the cabs. What amp are you using with the ML's? I ask because many of todays amps have a sizable treble boost built into the "knobs at noon" setting, so it's normal to find the ML112 a bit bright in this area with some heads. The key here, like Bill mentioned, is to not worry about where your knobs are set and just turn them to where you like the sound and call it good. You will also find that with the ML112's, if you stack the pair horizontally, the low end is going to feel much bigger which will balance out the mid response. Even if the gig doesn't need you to be cranked, the two cabs together present a different feel, which I prefer due to the bigger low end. Stacking the cabs vertical will sound leaner and be more mid present. The good thing is that you can tailor the configuration quite a bit to match the gig. one, or two, horizontal or vertical.

Regarding the L-pad, one of the early prototypes had an L-pad, but pretty much everyone that tried the cab said they left it up full. If it's really not needed, then there is really no need to add extra components to the circuit path.

The ML112 was developed because I was trying to recreate the sound of our amp that I was hearing though a good mixer into very high end headphones. With that setup, it was easy to hear all the smallest nuances of the tube circuit, with all the added tube overtones and harmonics. Plugging the amp into the standard cabs that were available never would yield the same results. It just sounded like a whole lot of information was missing somehow. Once we got into the mid drivers and increased upper mid output, I felt the cab was able to recreate the sound I was hearing from the tube circuit in a live setting much better. Those extra mids may sound a bit too forward in your living room, but they really add a lot of definition and articulation to your playing onstage and it is very easy to hear slight changes in your EQ and technique with them.
[/quote]

I'm using an Ashdown Spyder 550 head with the cabs.

Still very much experimenting with the cabs. At home, with the cabs stacked vertically there's a much bigger bottom end, compared to one cab up on a chair at rehearsal (exactly as you would expect). Our rehearsal space is a bit awkward to get to though, so I will only be bringing one cab, which is fine, I just know that I will be pushing it a bit harder and boosting the bass a bit more.

Your comment about " it is very easy to hear slight changes in your EQ and technique with them" is spot on. On no other cab I have used does one hear so accurately changes on the amp's EQ.

[R Baer]

[quote name='hamfist' timestamp='1362734687' post='2003895']
I'm using an Ashdown Spyder 550 head with the cabs.

Still very much experimenting with the cabs. At home, with the cabs stacked vertically there's a much bigger bottom end, compared to one cab up on a chair at rehearsal (exactly as you would expect). Our rehearsal space is a bit awkward to get to though, so I will only be bringing one cab, which is fine, I just know that I will be pushing it a bit harder and boosting the bass a bit more.

Your comment about " it is very easy to hear slight changes in your EQ and technique with them" is spot on. On no other cab I have used does one hear so accurately changes on the amp's EQ.
[/quote]

Stacking them horizontal gives you an even bigger low end. I find the extra low end is really nice for larger outdoor gigs.

[martin8708]

As a past owner of an Ashdown 550 Spyder , I found that particular amp to be very stong in the mids and struggled to get a full bass sound . See if you can borrow another head (my personal favourite is Markbass ) and you may find that you don't have to turn down the upper mids .

All the best
Martin

[hamfist]

[quote name='martin8708' timestamp='1363038561' post='2007535']
As a past owner of an Ashdown 550 Spyder , I found that particular amp to be very stong in the mids and struggled to get a full bass sound . See if you can borrow another head (my personal favourite is Markbass ) and you may find that you don't have to turn down the upper mids .

All the best
Martin
[/quote]

No need to change, the Spyder sounds fantastic through the ML112's. Just need to make sure that the "mid voice" switch is in the up position, and mids at about 11 to 11:30 (o'clock).

[R Baer]

I like the Ashdown stuff quite a bit. I played a ABM500 for a numbers of years and was really happy with the tone. They sound quite nice with the ML cabs.

[martin8708]

[quote name='hamfist' timestamp='1363069748' post='2007749']


No need to change, the Spyder sounds fantastic through the ML112's. Just need to make sure that the "mid voice" switch is in the up position, and mids at about 11 to 11:30 (o'clock).
[/quote]

Good to hear that your happy with the Spyder, I could never get to fully understand the EQ section of that amp , and I just seemed to get a good sound straightaway with a Markbass head .

It's great to see amp and cab builders getting involved in basschat , I am far more inclined to try new gear from bespoke builders who interact with the general public , so hats off to Roger . After being stuck in the "mud " for many years , Mark at Bassdirect put me onto a great Vanderkley 212 Cab which is great for the big gigs , so I am looking at the ML112 for smaller gigs and rehearsals .

Cheers
Martin

[IanA]

[quote name='martin8708' timestamp='1363559756' post='2014204']


Good to hear that your happy with the Spyder, I could never get to fully understand the EQ section of that amp , and I just seemed to get a good sound straightaway with a Markbass head .


It's great to see amp and cab builders getting involved in basschat , I am far more inclined to try new gear from bespoke builders who interact with the general public , so hats off to Roger . After being stuck in the "mud " for many years , Mark at Bassdirect put me onto a great Vanderkley 212 Cab which is great for the big gigs , so I am looking at the ML112 for smaller gigs and rehearsals .

Cheers
Martin
[/quote]

Very different cabs, the Vanderkleys are very even and pristine sounding, the Baer is very tight in the lows and VERY aggressive in the upper mids. If you like what you have and want a smaller solution the 112 MNT might be a good option.
+1 to markbass, great sound set flat, and always sits just right in a busy mix.

[skychaserhigh]

I have a Vanderkley 212MNT cab too and use it for everything from big to small gigs and home practice ! I agree about getting a 112 Vanderkley if you want a smaller option though , that way you will be getting the tone you are used to in every situation.

[hamfist]

[quote name='Iana' timestamp='1363589946' post='2014333']
the Baer is very tight in the lows and VERY aggressive in the upper mids.[/quote]

I agree with Ian's capitalisation of "very". You can tame them, but if you do not want a very present, slightly in-yer-face, tone, the Baer may not be the best cab for you

[R Baer]

Interesting thing is that the few times we tried dialing back the upper mids with some crossover mods, players that took the cab out on a gig said they missed them and wanted them back!

[chris_b]

Is the cab that agressive or are you just not used to EQing for a cab of that format and that quality.

[IanA]

[quote name='chris_b' timestamp='1363779772' post='2017387']
Is the cab that agressive or are you just not used to EQing for a cab of that format and that quality.
[/quote]
If you follow the threads on Talkbass you will see that Roger has voiced the cab to be aggressive, this does help them to be heard in a mix, but it can be too much for some users. A little eq can of course go a long way!

[hamfist]

[quote name='chris_b' timestamp='1363779772' post='2017387']
Is the cab that agressive or are you just not used to EQing for a cab of that format and that quality.
[/quote]

For most people I think "aggression" in a bass cab is in the mids, especially the upper mids. No bass cab without a dedicated mids driver would be able to come close to the upper mids controllability of the Baer. I like quite a clanky, aggressive tone. WIth traditional woofer/tweeter cabs it doesn't matter how much you dime certain mid frequencies, there is still a "hole" between the woofer and the tweeter's responses. You just don't get that with the ML112. So, yes, one does have to get used to EQing a bit differently with these cabs ..... For the first time ever I'm actually finding myself cutting mids a bit. It's the controllability to get what I actually want that I like with these cabs, rather than constantly fighting a hole in frequency response between the woofer and tweeter of traditional bass cabs.

[R Baer]

I think a lot of bassist find it odd to dial out upper mids or treble, because most players are used to turning those frequencies up. I have always found the upper mids to be those frequencies that tend to get eaten up by the rest of the band on stage and by the crowd out in the room. By bringing those frequencies forward, the ML's allow your playing to have increased definition in the mix. If it's too much, it's just a matter of either dialing them back with EQ, or by my favorite method which is rolling back your tone control just a tad.

[funkle]

I see that the Series II ML112 cabs are coming out soon. Roger is quoted on Talkbass as having made a few changes to the cabinet to incrementally improve it further. I'm definitely interested...though I need more cabs like I need a hole in the head.

[Guest monsterthompson]

Yeah. The TB crew loves these cabs. I found they didn't work well with the amp and bass I had at the time (Mesa M6 and Dingwall ABZ5) and got too bright and snarly. I certainly liked the form and weight. If I hadn't committed myself to the Barefaced path, they would be on my short list. I was anxious to try the ML115, but that wasn't in my cards either. I do think the quality is good, and they certainly hit the sweet spot for many players. Mr. B is also the kind of guy you like to support.