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Fender = boring and dull.


wateroftyne
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[quote name='The Bass Doc' timestamp='1363109810' post='2008688']
The expression 'Leo got it right' is bandied about quite a lot.

I understand the view but being one of the very few people to have spent some time with him I can say that he wouldn't neccessarily claim that.

I met him at CLF Research in 1979 when he was producing guitars for Musicman and he was constantly trying to improve and develop his instruments. I would say the Stingray may well have been the first truly active bass to be a world-wide success and of course he went on to design some fine instruments under the G&L banner.

I can't imagine that any present day luthier of the more boutique/unique styled basses would denegrate Leo Fender's pioneering work since I guess they would accept they had to design [i]from [/i]something that went before.

For his part LF only claimed that he was lucky in producing the first production-run bass that 'caught on' i.e. that if any other company had beaten him to it [i]that [/i]may well have been how the masses would expect a bass guitar to be.

So, dear friends, we should respect the original innovater and at the same time be grateful that further innovations have come along to enable all tastes to be satisfied.

The fact that the Precision bass (along with it's derivitives) continues to be probably the most popular in the world to this day as far as numbers are concerned is a credit to the man but were he still alive he would no doubt be trying to improve on it.

Viva la difference! (as the Spanish would say, Rodney).
[/quote]

Listen to the Doc. He's got it right. Time to simmer down and let the thread fade away.

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Think a lot of it is down to what you are used to.

I would imagine that for a large number people here, their first bass was something that was based on either a Fender P or J. They got used to that design of bass.

My first bass was a Burns Sonic, my next main one was an Overwater Original and since the turn of the century I've been playing Gus basses. None of these instruments owe much in design or construction to the work of Fender other than they are solid electric stringed instruments for producing low notes. It was 25 years from getting my first bass to the first time I spent any serious time with a Fender by which time I was so used to how my basses played, looked and sounded that I couldn't really see what all the fuss was about.

Also when I was first stating to get into music in the 70s the bass players in majority of my favourite bands played instruments made by Gibson, Rickenbacker or John Birch, and later on in the 80s Ibanez or Aria Pro II. As I said earlier I'd never come across the idea that the Fender bass was anything special when compared with other basses from what were regarded as the "quality" guitar manufacturers before I started posting here and on TalkBass. I'd naively assumed that you picked the bass that suited you best for sound, playability and looks and that was that.

As a bassist I'd never come across the "Fender bias" in real life - or if I had it was voiced far too subtly for me to have noticed! When I first started gigging in the early 80s almost none of the other local bands were using Fenders (or their copies) and anyone who had an "expensive" bass had something modern and Japanese. PA engineers simply stuck a DI box on to the line out of the amp and got on with the job of making your bass sound like it did on stage but louder through the PA.

Similarly later in the 90s I was never asked why I didn't have a Fender and an Ampeg - although they might have been overwhelmed by the sheer amount of high-tech gear we were putting on the stage and how they were going to mix it all!

And again in the studio none of this nonsense about only being able to get a P-bass to sit in the mix. The engineers and producers I worked with all listened to the overall sound of the band and got on with the job of making it sound even more fantastic.

Thing to remember is that no one bass suits everyone. The Fender bass is not perfect even if it is the ideal for you.

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[quote name='BigRedX' timestamp='1363112835' post='2008746']
Think a lot of it is down to what you are used to.

I would imagine that for a large number people here, their first bass was something that was based on either a Fender P or J. They got used to that design of bass.
[/quote]

You might have a point, but just for the record, mine was a pointy-headstocked Gibson Epiphone thingy, followed by a Hohner Jack headless, followed by an Overwater Progress, followed by a Stingray / Sterling custom build. It was years before I knocked on Fender's door...

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[quote name='BigRedX' timestamp='1363112835' post='2008746']

Thing to remember is that no one bass suits everyone. The Fender bass is not perfect even if it is the ideal for you.
[/quote]

No bass is perfect.

Each to their own, horses for courses, live and let live etc. Some people love Fenders, some people don't choose to play them and, yes, some people do hate them!

Can't we all just agree to disagree and get along?! :friends:

[quote name='BigRedX' timestamp='1363112835' post='2008746']
Think a lot of it is down to what you are used to.

I would imagine that for a large number people here, their first bass was something that was based on either a Fender P or J. They got used to that design of bass.
[/quote]

And perhaps some people did not like the design/feel/etc of their first P/J bass and this has put them off of the Fender designs in general? Just throwing it out there...

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. BRX is quite right to say that it all comes down to what you are used to . My first proper bass was a 1970s Ibanez , followed by a Fender a couple of years later . When I got the Fender it was the early 80s and everybody of note at the time seemed to be playing modern hifi hi tech basses and that's what I wanted , but I could only afford a Fender because they were relatively inexpensive at that time because they were out of fashion ( !) . After a while I traded the Fender in on another Ibanez ,, this time their top of the range bass at that time , but a while after that I picked up an old Precision bass ridiculously cheap and remember playing it and thinking that , despite how superior the modern bass was supposed to be , how much more fun it was than the Ibanez . Nowadays I like all kinds of basses modern and traditional , but a Fender will always be the reference point for me .

Edited by Dingus
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[quote name='BigRedX' timestamp='1363112835' post='2008746']
The Fender bass is not perfect even if it is the ideal for you.
[/quote]

The Fender bass is ideal for me and therefore is perfect. Why can you not stand the idea of Fender players liking and playing Fenders? [size=4]Your anti-Fender stance baffles me to be honest - and has done for years.[/size]

[size=4]You don't happen to like them yourself - fine - we [/size][i]get[/i][size=4] it.[/size]

Edited by discreet
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[quote name='BigRedX' timestamp='1363104353' post='2008563']
From my perception it's not that at all but the other way around.

I'm quite happy for people to play Fenders (or any other make of bass) provided that they realise that there is nothing automatically superior about their choice. If the Fender bass suits you that's great. But don't go telling me that "Leo got it right" or other similar bollocks clichés when if you look at it objectively you'll see that actually all he did was get it slightly less wrong than his competitors of the time.

You can't tell me that changing the neck joint so that it's no longer a massively lumpy thing that gets in the way from the 15th fret onwards isn't an improvement, or redesigning the headstock with an angle so that you no longer have to use string retainers and wind ridiculous amounts of string around the machine head posts to get a decent break angle over the nut won't improve tuning stability and give a more even feel to the compliance of the strings. Also while scaled-up guitar bodies might work if you're a large-boned, well-fed American, for a lot of us in the rest of the world they are too big and uncomfortable.

TBH I never knew there was supposed to be anything extra special about the Fender bass when compared to the other well-regarded electric musical instrument makers until I discovered internet bass forums.
[/quote]

Good grief, you seem to have quite a few problems/requirements when it comes to bass design. Perhaps a different instrument would suit better?

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[quote name='neepheid' timestamp='1363115395' post='2008803']
This is getting too personal. In the interest of keeping things civil it would be wise to back off the spotlight on BRX's personal taste in basses.
[/quote]

I think BRX has been perfectly reasonable and rational in what he has got to say on this matter . Plenty of folks aren't that enamoured of Fender basses for one reason and another , and that's fine . I like Fenders and I like some more modern bass designs too , so I suppose I've got a foot in both camps .

Edited by Dingus
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[quote name='risingson' timestamp='1363116720' post='2008835']
BRX's posts are always reasonable and well thought out. I do not at all agree with him at all but it hardly matters does it? It's certainly made for an otherwise boring Tuesday off for me!
[/quote]

What are you wasting your life on here for? You should have been playing bass! :P[size=4] ;)[/size]

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[quote name='discreet' timestamp='1363116816' post='2008839']
What are you wasting your life on here for? You should have been playing bass! :P ;)
[/quote]

Done all that! Noodled for a lot of the day on my P-Bass strung with flats... mmm lovely stuff. Everyone needs a Fender you know!

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[quote name='risingson' timestamp='1363116895' post='2008844']
Done all that! Noodled for a lot of the day on my P-Bass strung with flats... mmm lovely stuff. Everyone needs a Fender you know!
[/quote]

Hee, hee. I did the same... with frequent breaks for wasting my life on here. ;)

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My first bass was a 198? Fender P which I used for quite a few years before moving off into the Japanese market.
I found the Japanese stuff a little easier to play and it made a nice change from the 'standard' Fender P sound - nowt wrong with that sound if that's what you want, but it just didn't suit my needs at the time.

I still keep a (rarely used) Fender J which I use when the occasional artist\band frown at anything other than Fender, just to keep the peace. :)

(And secure me the gig! :lol:)

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[quote name='icastle' timestamp='1363117352' post='2008860']
My first bass was a 198? Fender P which I used for quite a few years before moving off into the Japanese market.
I found the Japanese stuff a little easier to play and it made a nice change from the 'standard' Fender P sound - nowt wrong with that sound if that's what you want, but it just didn't suit my needs at the time.

I still keep a (rarely used) Fender J which I use when the occasional artist\band frown at anything other than Fender, just to keep the peace. :)

(And secure me the gig! :lol:)
[/quote]

Do people frown when you turn up with a non-Fender? Really?!! I just take along whatever tickles my whistle, which ok I haven't actually got a Fender but still, if I want to play the SR300 then that is what goes with me. And, I don't like to have favourites :)

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[quote name='icastle' timestamp='1363117352' post='2008860']
I still keep a (rarely used) Fender J which I use when the occasional artist\band frown at anything other than Fender, just to keep the peace. :)

(And secure me the gig! :lol:)
[/quote]

That's just bizarre! It's bad enough that bass players have chips on their shoulders about Fenders, but why on earth would, for example, a keyboard player or vocalist have a strong opinion about the bass you turn up with? Where does that attitude come from I wonder?

If somebody wants [i]me[/i] to play bass, or even audition for them to do so, then they have to accept [i]my[/i] taste in instruments - which may [i]include[/i] Fender, but certainly does not begin and end with them! :)

I've had plenty of funny looks and "witty" comments about my Status, but to my knowledge have never had any responses along the lines of "sorry mate, you're a good player but we just don't think your bass would fit into this band...". Have other people experienced that? :o

There are some strange people in this world... :unsure:

Edited by Conan
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[quote name='Conan' timestamp='1363161436' post='2009289']
That's just bizarre! It's bad enough that bass players have chips on their shoulders about Fenders, but why on earth would, for example, a keyboard player or vocalist have a strong opinion about the bass you turn up with? Where does that attitude come from I wonder?

If somebody wants [i]me[/i] to play bass, or even audition for them to do so, then they have to accept [i]my[/i] taste in instruments - which may [i]include[/i] Fender, but certainly does not begin and end with them! :)

I've had plenty of funny looks and "witty" comments about my Status, but to my knowledge have never had any responses along the lines of "sorry mate, you're a good player but we just don't think your bass would fit into this band...". Have other people experienced that? :o

There are some strange people in this world... :unsure:
[/quote]

I've seen an ad or two saying you MUST have an ampeg stack and a MIA Fender P to audition for this band.

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[quote name='charic' timestamp='1363162477' post='2009299']
I've seen an ad or two saying you MUST have an ampeg stack and a MIA Fender P to audition for this band.
[/quote]

Weird and wrong of course, but I'd just love an Ampeg rig to go with my P bass... :P

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[quote name='Conan' timestamp='1363161436' post='2009289']
If somebody wants [i]me[/i] to play bass, or even audition for them to do so, then they have to accept [i]my[/i] taste in instruments - which may [i]include[/i] Fender, but certainly does not begin and end with them! :)
[/quote]

It really depends on the people involved.

I'm very often a last minute replacement for an existing bass player and that worries people, partly my own fault for being relaxed about the situation.
Add an unfamiliar instrument (to them) on top of that and it just adds to the stress.

The way I see it, I'm just there to do whatever they want me to do - if they want me to wear shorts and green wellies while I'm playing then that's what I do. :)

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