mr zed Posted March 13, 2013 Share Posted March 13, 2013 (edited) Hmmmm........ I fancy having a go at playing fretless. I'm particularly interested in playing rock type stuff on it ala Tony Franklin - i.e. not restricting myself to ballards or jazz but playing stuff that kicks-bottom. So, that'll be roundwounds then! I like classic shaped basses (Jazz, Precision, Stingray etc). Question is, what shall I do about acquiring the right bass? I currently own two cracking 4 string fretted basses (EBMM 25th and a Fender Jazz USA Deluxe). The options as I see them are to:[list] [*]buy a quality (i.e. expensive) fretless bass (probably secondhand so that I won't lose too much if I don't take to it) [*]buy a cheapish fretless bass (again, not losing too much as it would be cheap to start with) [*]convert one of my existing basses (probably the Jazz) to fretless [*]trade/sell one of my existing basses for a fretless [/list] If I go for options one or two, do you have any recommendations? If I go for option three, would you convert the existing (rosewood) board by ripping out the frets and filling in the gaps or would you replace the board with a new (ebony) one? Any recommendations for a good luthier who could carry out this work - i'm in the North West? John Shuker springs to mind. For any of the above options would you choose lined or unlined? Also, is ebony the best bet for minimising wear using roundwounds? If so, does it need to be coated. Sorry for all the questions - just can't make my mind up which way to go with this. I'd be sorry to lose one of my existing basses, but I can only play one at once (or so the wife keeps telling me). Have I covered all the various options or have I missed anything? Cheers Guys Edited March 13, 2013 by mr zed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leftyhook Posted March 13, 2013 Share Posted March 13, 2013 first off, if you are unsure about playing fretless. don't convert one of your beloved basses. Don't you know anyone who would lend you one for a few weeks to see how you get on? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beedster Posted March 13, 2013 Share Posted March 13, 2013 Option 5. Buy a used original or aftermarket fretless neck for one of your basses (I recently sold an EBMM fretless neck, they come up quite often. Jazz necks even more so). If it doesn't work out, you can sell it on with little or no loss and neither of your current basses are any the worse for it. C Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bremen Posted March 13, 2013 Share Posted March 13, 2013 (edited) Another option might be to get a fretless neck for the Jazz. That way you won't lose out if you don't take to the lack of speed bumps. I wouldn't butcher a nice fretted neck. What happens if you decide fretless isn't your thing? Or to put it another way, what them two ^^ serious fretless players said. Edited March 13, 2013 by bremen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RAY AGAINST THE MACHINE Posted March 13, 2013 Share Posted March 13, 2013 Not easy to decide here;) I would say that if you really love one of your fretted basses you own, the logical thing to do would be to get the exact equivalent in a fretless. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul_5 Posted March 13, 2013 Share Posted March 13, 2013 Or, as you're only in Bolton we could meet up and you could have a play with mine... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
noelk27 Posted March 13, 2013 Share Posted March 13, 2013 Yea, agree with Mr Beedster. You've already entered a comfort zone with your current basses, so getting a neck for either of those is a solid idea. If you go the convert route, then you're best (in terms of learning/using) to have the neck re-boarded, as opposed to de-fretted. Final thought, and something I often say to others, if you already play fretted and want to buy a fretless, but the fretless version of something you already own/play. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ead Posted March 13, 2013 Share Posted March 13, 2013 [quote name='paul_5' timestamp='1363206295' post='2009894'] Or, as you're only in Bolton we could meet up and you could have a play with mine... [/quote] Ditto, please feel free to get in touch if you'd like to try mine too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Sausage Posted March 13, 2013 Share Posted March 13, 2013 I'm in atherton if ya want a go on one of mine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GuyR Posted March 13, 2013 Share Posted March 13, 2013 Sounds like a perfect excuse to buy an additional bass - no point in mucking about with your current ones. If you can find one, a 1980s Tokai Jazz sound fretless can be picked up for £300 or so, sometimes cheaper. If you already like the Jazz neck shape, there is nothing better for the money. I would never part with mine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve-bbb Posted March 13, 2013 Share Posted March 13, 2013 courtesy of a recent purchase from basschat's [b][url="http://basschat.co.uk/user/3937-jay/"]jay[/url][/b] i am now the very pleased owner of a squier vm fretless J - this is now my second squier and i thoroughly recommend - my only crit of the the fretless vmJ is the piece of bent tin they use as an excuse for a bridge but that is easily and reasonably cheaply remedied dont rip the frets out of your current J its a right PITA putting them back in later you might try and tactfully remind mrs zed that she can only wear one pair of shoes at a time (i hereby disclaim all responsibilty for the consequences if you fail to wear headwear that is both suitablyy protective against heavy swinging blows from cast iron frying pans but also light enough to enable a speedy getaway) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JwK94 Posted March 13, 2013 Share Posted March 13, 2013 (edited) Definitely try a fretless or two before committing any real money. I have a fretless Fender CIJ Jazz and I absolutely love it! They go for around £450 or less on here Edit: Also, heard nothing but good things about the Squier VMJ Fretless Edited March 13, 2013 by JwK94 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Sausage Posted March 13, 2013 Share Posted March 13, 2013 [quote name='JwK94' timestamp='1363212656' post='2010019'] Definitely try a fretless or two before committing any real money. I have a fretless Fender CIJ Jazz and I absolutely love it! They go for around £450 or less on here Edit: Also, heard nothing but good things about the Squier VMJ Fretless [/quote]Me too (CIJ) it's class Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emanew Posted March 13, 2013 Share Posted March 13, 2013 Good advises by fellow groovers here. Nothing better than having a real fretless neck. Defretting a bass must be done by a skilled person and it is expensive. You can look for a bass which has the same neck than yours to feel confortable quicker. Lined or unlined fingerboard, it is up to you...but for me a dark fingerboard with only 4 strings in the front i love it . A second hand bass is not hard to find (Japan basses are good), and if you quit you can resell it without losing money. Anyway welcome to the fretless world ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ead Posted March 14, 2013 Share Posted March 14, 2013 If you're looking for a nice unlined Jazz then my former MIJ 62 RI fretless is with Drew in the Manchester Bass lounge. I can tell you what he paid for it too! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Adams Posted March 14, 2013 Share Posted March 14, 2013 I tried a fretless in a shop over the christmas break and was very impressed by how it sounded and played (as someone who can't play a fretted bass anyway) I subsequently bought a cheap Stagg fretless from the "bay" and am still loving it. BUT, as a beginner I have found it has made me lazy as originally it was great not having to worry about fingering coorectly, but now I realise I need to practise on fretted so I can play my fretless correctly. In my book there is certainly plenty of room for both, and a fretless with flats on is a very different animal to a fretless with rounds on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Rich Posted March 14, 2013 Share Posted March 14, 2013 [quote name='mr zed' timestamp='1363205610' post='2009864'] .....I'd be sorry to lose one of my existing basses, but I can only play one at once ..... [/quote] Sounds like you shouldn't pull the frets out, a replacement neck or a cheapish fretless to start off on would seem to be the way to go as has been said already. As for lined / unlined, I've always gone for unlined as I reckon I should be playing in tune with my ears not my eyes. This did fall down somewhat when I was on stage once and couldn't hear myself, I had to judge by the pained expressions of the audience how in tune I was ( = sharp, = flat) However it's probably easier to start out on a lined fretless plus there are probably more of them around, but they can be like stabilisers in the long term and maybe stop you really listening. In the meantime look at where you're fretting the notes on your fretted bass and try and get your fingers as close to the fret as possible without choking the string, this'll start building muscle memory so that when you go over to fretless you'll have a head start. Also it's good technique on fretted as you need less pressure to fret a clean note, you'll play faster with less strain. Ebony boards are hard to come by without spending pots of money, mine are all rosewood which sounds the best in my opinion. I find maple too bright and phenolic boards on graphite basses too clacky, but you might find you like that sound. You can coat wooden boards with either epoxy resin, or with super glue if you move really fast and don't mind gluing the cloth and probably yourself to the board, most A&E departments seem to lose patience the third time you show up attached to your bass. Epoxy sounds too bright to my ears, super glue sounds OK but needs to be stripped and re applied fairly regularly therefore all a bit pointless. Flatwound or groundwound / halfwound strings will help protect the fingerboard, but plenty of people use roundwounds and have the fingerboard sanded if it picks up too much damage from the strings, depends how hard you press down and how much you play it. Good luck! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conan Posted March 14, 2013 Share Posted March 14, 2013 [quote name='Phil Adams' timestamp='1363251250' post='2010331'] a fretless with flats on is a very different animal to a fretless with rounds on. [/quote] I'd be interested to hear why you think that? I've tried both and I don't find the difference to be all that great. On balance I think I prefer flats, but they need to be decent ones or they can certainly sound a bit dull and lifeless.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Adams Posted March 14, 2013 Share Posted March 14, 2013 Just from a sound point of view really Conan. I think flats make minor differences in pitch less obvious, helpful at my stage at times! also of course if "sliding" around . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conan Posted March 14, 2013 Share Posted March 14, 2013 [quote name='Phil Adams' timestamp='1363252456' post='2010346'] Just from a sound point of view really Conan. I think flats make minor differences in pitch less obvious, helpful at my stage at times! also of course if "sliding" around . [/quote] Fair points! Some people talk about rounds being brighter in tone. I only really find that to be the case when playing open strings. Also, the damage to the fretboard varies very much from player to player, depending on how light your touch is. I think there is a point of overlap where the brightest flats sound more "rich" than the least bright rounds - which kind of negates any perceived advantages of using rounds IMO! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mr zed Posted March 14, 2013 Author Share Posted March 14, 2013 Guys, this is brilliant - thanks to all of you for your contributions. Within half an hour of posting this thread, I have had offers to try basses owned by three members that are all local to me - that's the power of basschat and a testiment to the caliber of people that we have on here, so Paul 5, ead and Lord Sausage, thank you. I'm getting the strong message to leave my current basses alone and buy a dedicated fretless. It would be nice to buy a fretless neck for my Jazz, but as it is a deluxe, I can't seem to find one for sale that would fit (I believe that the deluxe necks are longer than a standard Jazz neck as they have a smaller body - i'm also not sure about the neck pocket sizing). Steve-bbb, I ride motorbikes and have full protection provided by Dainese leathers and Arai Helmets - lightweight too so handy for running away :-) Think I need to try out a CIJ Jazz. EAD, i've been looking at photos of the black one in the Manchester bass lounge (your old one?) and it is a very nice looking bass and I think that this may suit my needs perfectly. Phil and Conan, it sounds like bright flatwounds would be preferable to roundwounds? Is there a particular brand that either of you could recommend? Thanks again to all, this really is very helpful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Adams Posted March 14, 2013 Share Posted March 14, 2013 I do have a bass with each on. The rounds are quite old I think, bought the bass with them on, new strings should be here any day courtesy of Amazon. I think the flats are very dull, they came with the bass as well but don't think they're very old, just the way they are. I'm very happy (not to mention lucky) to have all the choices. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Adams Posted March 14, 2013 Share Posted March 14, 2013 PS, of course as a learner I'm tending to play at low volumes, or unplugged, perhaps that has skewed my opinions on the tone a bit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conan Posted March 14, 2013 Share Posted March 14, 2013 [quote name='mr zed' timestamp='1363255737' post='2010425'] Phil and Conan, it sounds like bright flatwounds would be preferable to roundwounds? Is there a particular brand that either of you could recommend?[/quote] YMMV etc, but if you want to give flats a try I have been happy with La Bella. WoT strongly recommends Lakland flats, which are a good bit cheaper (nearly half the price in fact!) especially if you buy them direct from Lakland via their website... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conan Posted March 14, 2013 Share Posted March 14, 2013 [quote name='Phil Adams' timestamp='1363255982' post='2010436'] PS, of course as a learner I'm tending to play at low volumes, or unplugged, perhaps that has skewed my opinions on the tone a bit. [/quote] Very probably! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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