How do different woods contribute to 'tone' in electric instruments?

[the boy]

[quote name='chris_b' timestamp='1363689954' post='2015776']
Of course the choice of wood makes a difference to the tone of an instrument.

Everything on a bass, apart from the strap locks, affects the tone, including the construction and materials.

How much is down to the design goals of the luthier.

If you are interested find out what the major makers, like Sadowsky, Tobias etc, say about tone.

They know much more about this than we do.
[/quote]
I'm not convinced.

[the boy]

[quote name='discreet' timestamp='1363723583' post='2016645']
According to Black and Molinaro's [i]The Fender Bass[/i], '...Fender added a sunburst finish to the Precision in late 1954, while the bodies were still ash. Fender did not use alder for sunburst until 1956. According to George Fullerton, this decision was motivated by cost and ease of finishing rather than any effect the change had on tone, which Fender did not consider to be a factor...'
[/quote]
Agreed.

[the boy]

[quote name='BassTractor' timestamp='1363715234' post='2016473']


Yup! Here's the J with alder body that was used:




and here's the construction site plank:




I don't remember if a third bass was used, or whether he's just stated three basses were involved, but only two were recorded.


BTW, and often underrated, people only chose the plank as the US J because of the similar wiring and identical QC.


best,
bert
[/quote]
Let's do this.......please.

[EssentialTension]

[quote name='the boy' timestamp='1363727627' post='2016758']
Let's do this.......please.
[/quote]
The full story is here: [url="http://www.talkbass.com/forum/f8/scrap-lumber-bass-vs-alder-bass-can-you-tell-difference-743932/"]http://www.talkbass.com/forum/f8/scrap-lumber-bass-vs-alder-bass-can-you-tell-difference-743932/[/url]

[BigRedX]

Interesting, which has lead me to another question:

Were any of the woods we now associate with solid electric instruments also used in acoustic instruments primarily because of the tone? Not counting neck and fingerboard woods which serve the same functions on both.

[discreet]

[quote name='xgsjx' timestamp='1363709405' post='2016327']
Is that you paving the way for a new genre?
[/quote]

Nah, I'm just stoned.

[xgsjx]

[quote name='discreet' timestamp='1363730045' post='2016830']
Nah, I'm just stoned.
[/quote]

Phew. For a moment I was bricking it!

[BassPimp66]

The tone equation is simple:
[1] the more expensive and rarer the tone wood, the better the sound
[2] the more vintage, the better the sound
[3] the more the bass looks like a coffee table, the better the sound
[4] add "Fodera" on the headstock to multiply your tone by 10

Tone = [1] x [2] x [3] x (IF [4] = true, 10, 1)

[discreet]

[quote name='EssentialTension' timestamp='1363727979' post='2016771']
The full story is here: [url="http://www.talkbass.com/forum/f8/scrap-lumber-bass-vs-alder-bass-can-you-tell-difference-743932/"]http://www.talkbass....ference-743932/[/url]
[/quote]

Having maintained for years that wood makes no difference, I took this test and got it right. The Alder bass was obvious!
So I'm not quite sure where this leaves me, now...

[EssentialTension]

[quote name='discreet' timestamp='1363731777' post='2016863']
Having maintained for years that wood makes no difference, I took this test and got it right. The Alder bass was obvious!
So I'm not quite sure where this leaves me, now...
[/quote]
If the alder bass was 'obvious' then how come most people could not tell?

[discreet]

[quote name='EssentialTension' timestamp='1363731987' post='2016866']
If the alder bass was 'obvious' then how come most people could not tell?
[/quote]

Because 1) they're Americans, and 2) most people probably didn't listen to the clips on full-range studio monitors.
Listen to them! The Alder bass is rounder and fuller, no doubt about it.

[Big_Stu]

[quote name='discreet' timestamp='1363723583' post='2016645']
According to George Fullerton, this decision was motivated by cost and ease of finishing rather than any effect the change had on tone[/quote]

FWIW John Birch preferred maple for the same reason & it was his default material unless another was spec'd by the customer. He reckoned almost everything was in the pickups, which is why concentrated on them all of his life.

[Beer of the Bass]

I do wonder how useful a test the plank bass above was, as it's looking at "cheap versus expensive" rather than any innate property of the wood. The density and stiffness of the bit of scrap and the alder might be fairly close to one another.
If I really wanted to test whether the wood used for a solid body contributed to the tone, I would use pieces of wood which had wildly different properties - say one very soft and light wood (like poplar) and one bit of something hard and dense (like something in the rosewood family), swapping the same neck and pickups between the two. If nobody could hear a difference between those, threads like this could be put to bed.

[BassTractor]

[quote name='Beer of the Bass' timestamp='1363732816' post='2016882']
I do wonder how useful a test the plank bass above was, as it's looking at "cheap versus expensive" rather than any innate property of the wood. The density and stiffness of the bit of scrap and the alder might be fairly close to one another.
[/quote]

Good point. I do think though that the test managed to undress some of the vocal certainty (if that is the right word) about body woods that exists.
Listening experience in the field also comes in handy. It's not as if we are all listening specialists just because we tend to make some strings vibrate every now and then.

best,
bert

[uncle psychosis]

[quote name='Beer of the Bass' timestamp='1363732816' post='2016882']
I do wonder how useful a test the plank bass above was, as it's looking at "cheap versus expensive" rather than any innate property of the wood. The density and stiffness of the bit of scrap and the alder might be fairly close to one another.
If I really wanted to test whether the wood used for a solid body contributed to the tone, I would use pieces of wood which had wildly different properties - say one very soft and light wood (like poplar) and one bit of something hard and dense (like something in the rosewood family), swapping the same neck and pickups between the two. If nobody could hear a difference between those, threads like this could be put to bed.
[/quote]

You would also need to take the neck and pickups off one of the guitars and then reinstall them [i]in the same guitar [/i]and make sure that no-one could hear a difference there either before repeating the whole process with the other one.

[Mr. Foxen]

The difference in woods isn't down to the species/type of wood. It is down to the individual piece of wood, because even within a species or even a single tree, the wood is really inconsistent. Stuff used for making intruments is always broadly similar because a basic degree of strength and workability is necessary, and all of the silly alternatives that 'prove' wood makes no difference are of the same theme of things that need a basic degree of stiffness and workability.

[jackers]

[quote name='discreet' timestamp='1363731777' post='2016863']
Having maintained for years that wood makes no difference, I took this test and got it right. The Alder bass was obvious!
So I'm not quite sure where this leaves me, now...
[/quote]

I have to say, I just listened to the three clips again and managed to get it right too :S haha. There is a tiny difference in the roll of in the top end to my ears, lol.

[xgsjx]

I'm sure I'm gonna hear the difference on my ipad. My appreciation of loud things as a kid means everything I hear has the top rolled off.

A better test would be to use identical components to what the fender has, but attached to a completely different material, such as a frying pan or a lump of polystyrene.

[matski]

[quote name='BigRedX' timestamp='1363699398' post='2016011']
They already do. What about Warwick's bell brass, and how about [url="http://www.crystalfrets.com"]these[/url]!
[/quote]

Somehow I had the feeling that you would come up something... I bow to your superior knowledge, BRX.

[Happy Jack]

[quote name='discreet' timestamp='1363732300' post='2016872']
The [b]older [/b]bass is rounder and fuller, no doubt about it.
[/quote]

Corrected for vintage instruments ...

[Spoombung]

Based on years of research in my lab I would say:

1. Pickups and pickup position = 80% of the sound
2. Neck/body joint and dimensions =15% of the sound
3. Wood selection = 5% of the sound.

Professor Spoombung.

[discreet]

[quote name='Happy Jack' timestamp='1363768737' post='2017129']
Corrected for vintage instruments...
[/quote]

Hmm... well I've definitely become fuller and rounder as I've aged, so why not?

[ingmar808]

Thanks for all the responses... FWIW my own opinion (based on over 30 years playing and recording) is that the wood has a negligible effect on tone, if any. That seems to be the concensus here too.

I was just wondering if I was 'missing' anything, and why manufacturers even bother to spec the type of wood used, and why some players argue to the contrary.

I suppose it's all a hangover from acoustic guitar construction (where the wood is of importance).

Apologies for reviving what appears to be a well-worn topic. Consider this thread dead... Next!

[xgsjx]

Not at all. It's good to get a fresh debate on an older topic. This way we see if there is any shift & ge another chat about bass.

[discreet]

[quote name='ingmar808' timestamp='1363784160' post='2017508']
Consider this thread dead... Next!
[/quote]

OK, then... what's the best wood for a bog seat..?