Recommend somewhere to buy PC components

[Shambo]

Like a few members of this forum I am also a member of GearSlutz, however that place is even more of a bunfight than here, so I was hoping to get your thoughts on the matter before I throw myself to the know-it-all sharks there.

After a couple of years out of the loop, I'm endeavouring to build myself a new PC. The computer will be musically dedicated, used mainly as a DAW (Reaper) with the occasional free plug in effect applied, and integrated via ADAT with the Yamaha 02R I picked up second hand a couple of weeks ago, (it's got 2 ADAT cards and a TC Unity card already fitted). I was intending to use a RME RayDat PCI-e soundcard but I'm open to other suggestions.

To give you an idea about how long it's been since I last build a PC, it had an AMD Duron processor. I never used it for musical purposes, just to play games and look at naked women on the internet, but got fed up of the constant spiral of upgrades, so bought the laptop I'm using now, (lasted me for 5 years or so and still going strong), and an XBOX or three.

I'm looking for advice on a good place to buy components online and indeed good recommendations for bang for buck hardware. Cost v Service wise, well everybody likes bargains, but I will gladly pay a little more for an existent after sales service.

On the shopping list is:[list=1]
[*]An Intel Processor. I don't know how many cores I want or need and this obviously combines with...
[*]A motherboard with PCI-e and RAID. Anyone suggest a good model for audio use?
[*]32GB DDR3 RAM minimum
[*]HDD's, (not SSD's still not convinced on reliability versus cost)
[*]Graphics card to run two monitors
[*]Two monitors
[/list]
The other sundries are coming second hand via eBay or a quiet pc specialist company.

Can somebody give their suggestions of what to buy and where? Thanks.

Oh, and a non-shonky disc of Win7 64bit.

Edited March 19, 2013 by Shambo

[cheddatom]

ebuyer tends to be very cheap. Overclockers do some good "bare bones" systems which always save time and hassle. Those are the two I use

Your system sounds like a dream come true, I wish I could afford the same!

EDIT: I should say, I regularly record 10-20 channels of audio at 48Khz, 24bit, all to external USB drives, so you should be fine without going SSD

Edited March 19, 2013 by cheddatom

[andydye]

I've used [url="http://www.cclonline.com/"]http://www.cclonline.com/[/url] as their prices have been excellent over the last few years...

[charic]

I tend to look toward Novatech for my stuff

[RockfordStone]

+1 for overlcockers, i got all the componants for my last pc build there, the processor and mother board bundles are always pretty decently priced imo, and saves hassle trying to find the ones that pair up

[Twigman]

[url="http://www.scan.co.uk"]http://www.scan.co.uk[/url] are my goto supplier. I have built several computers from their parts. They deliver next day and are very competitvely priced

Edited March 19, 2013 by Twigman

[cheddatom]

[quote name='RockfordStone' timestamp='1363697602' post='2015962']
+1 for overlcockers, i got all the componants for my last pc build there, the processor and mother board bundles are always pretty decently priced imo, and saves hassle trying to find the ones that pair up
[/quote]

Yeh their support isn't bad either

I have used Novatech in the past who were cheap - on a par with Ebuyer I guess. I've never had to deal with support/customer service from any of these

[flyfisher]

[quote name='Twigman' timestamp='1363699389' post='2016010']
[url="http://www.scan.co.uk"]http://www.scan.co.uk[/url] are my goto supplier. I have built several computers from their parts. They deliver next day and are very competitvely priced
[/quote]

+1

[Shambo]

Thank you for the suggestions so far, they'll all be investigated.

Anybody got any thoughts or recommendations on CPU's ? Does a DAW really need 4 cores or more?

[bobbass4k]

Scan are my go to, the site can be a bit of a chore to use, and their prices aren't always the absolute lowest but there's never more than a few £ in it and the service and selection far outstrips OCUK and eBuyer, in my experience.

As for CPU, you may not necessarily [i]need [/i]a quad-core, but quad-cores are the dominant force now, a decent quad core is well within a reasonable budget. I upgraded my PC last year and I sprang for one of the new Ivy Bridge i5's, 22nm! They can probably be had for £150ish, but if you can afford 32GB of RAM, you might want to look at an i7. Or I suppose you could always look at an..... AMD, if you're into that sort of thing.

[Twigman]

Finding a motherboard that will take 32GB RAM with the current RAM chips available is going to be tricky.....why would you need 32GB RAM? I only have 8GB and even with multiple instances of Kontakt running some quite complex libraries I hardly ever exceed 6.5GB in use.

[Shambo]

Thanks bobbass4k. I realise I'm not being stingy with the RAM but that's clearly going to be my main expenditure excluding the soundcard.

That's interesting Twigman, nearly all the socket 1155 motherboards I'm looking at state they support 32GB. The socket 2011 I'm seeing tends towards 64GB max. Are there compatability problems between makes of RAM and motherboards? That's the sort of thing I'm looking to avoid.

It's an old PC mantra of mine, moreRAM, moreRAM, moreRAM... If 8GB would be enough today, what about in 12 months or two years? For me, I'd rather stick 4 x 8GB sticks in at once than add new sticks to old ones.

[cheddatom]

If you've got the money it's a good mantra!

[charic]

[quote name='Twigman' timestamp='1363767352' post='2017115']
Finding a motherboard that will take 32GB RAM with the current RAM chips available is going to be tricky.....why would you need 32GB RAM? I only have 8GB and even with multiple instances of Kontakt running some quite complex libraries I hardly ever exceed 6.5GB in use.
[/quote]

My laptop has 32GB of RAM in it so I would have thought most desktops could support it now.

[Twigman]

[quote name='Shambo' timestamp='1363768426' post='2017125']
That's interesting Twigman, nearly all the socket 1155 motherboards I'm looking at state they support 32GB. The socket 2011 I'm seeing tends towards 64GB max. Are there compatability problems between makes of RAM and motherboards? That's the sort of thing I'm looking to avoid.


[/quote]
They may say they support 32GB but try buying more than 4GB in a chip.
How many RAM slots are on the motherboard?

My DDR2 RAM motherboard only has 4 RAM slots - yet the manual says it supports up to 32GB RAM - Did anyone ever make an 8GB RAM chip in DDR2? Nope

Modern trip[le channel memory motherboards may have upto 6 slots.....but show me DDR3 RAM on more than 4GB per chip...I've not seen any

EDIT: I see that socket 2011 motherboards seem to have 8 slots (!!!!!) eg http://www.scan.co.uk/products/asus-p9x79-intel-x79-s-2011-ddr3-sata-iii-6gb-s-sata-raid-pcie-30-%28x16%29-atx
and that it seems at last 8GB RAM per slot is now manufactured if not stocked eg http://www.scan.co.uk/products/32gb-%284x8gb%29-corsair-ddr3-dominator-pc3-12800-%281600%29-non-ecc-unbuffered-cas-10-10-10-27-dhx-technolo
So i stand corrected.......

Edited March 20, 2013 by Twigman

[6v6]

+1 for ebuyer and novatech, used both many times without problems

Also http://www.dabs.com/ are good

I assume you've seen the 3xs stuff from scan? The prices on these are actually pretty good when you start adding up the cost of all the components, and consider that you're getting something which has been specifically optimized and tested for DAW use:

http://3xs.scan.co.uk/Category.asp?SystemMasterCategoryID=2

[Shambo]

[quote name='Twigman' timestamp='1363773156' post='2017216']
EDIT: I see that socket 2011 motherboards seem to have 8 slots (!!!!!) eg [url="http://www.scan.co.uk/products/asus-p9x79-intel-x79-s-2011-ddr3-sata-iii-6gb-s-sata-raid-pcie-30-%28x16%29-atx"]http://www.scan.co.u...0-%28x16%29-atx[/url]
and that it seems at last 8GB RAM per slot is now manufactured if not stocked eg [url="http://www.scan.co.uk/products/32gb-%284x8gb%29-corsair-ddr3-dominator-pc3-12800-%281600%29-non-ecc-unbuffered-cas-10-10-10-27-dhx-technolo"]http://www.scan.co.u...27-dhx-technolo[/url]
So i stand corrected.......
[/quote]
I'm not finding a problem finding companies that say they have 4 x 8GB in stock and will sell it to me for around £180-200.
The proof will come I suppose when I place an order.

Now I'm wondering if I need lower profile RAM that won't interfere with the CPU cooler I'm yet to choose.
[quote name='6v6' timestamp='1363773811' post='2017229']
I assume you've seen the 3xs stuff from scan? The prices on these are actually pretty good when you start adding up the cost of all the components, and consider that you're getting something which has been specifically optimized and tested for DAW use:

[url="http://3xs.scan.co.uk/Category.asp?SystemMasterCategoryID=2"]http://3xs.scan.co.u...terCategoryID=2[/url]
[/quote]
I have looked at them and they just don't do the configuration I want at the price I want to pay. I think i7 processors aren't good enough value for money at the moment. It's interesting to see they spec LGA1155 socket and Intel Z77 chipset motherboard but, is that the one they know works the best, or the one they got the best deal on a bulk buy?

The good thing about DIY is getting exactly what you need, the bad thing is deciding where the best value lies in the market these days when you haven't kept upto date for a few years...

... and the constant desire to upgrade and improve... like a electronic money pit.

My last PC had a whopping 64mb of RAM. At the time you could max it out to 1GB and I remember thinking, "Whats the point in that? I don't want a supercomputer!"

When I was knee high to a grasshopper, my first computer was a VIC-20 which I used to type little basic programs into, making sure they wouldn't use more than the magnificent 3.5 kb memory. I used to covet the neighbours Commodore 64, but not the lad over the road's Spectrum 48k because, a little like the tedious Apple Vs PC debate, the Sinclair seemed vulgar and common and didn't give the user the smug sense of superiority provided by Commodore. *ducks*

[bobbass4k]

[quote name='Shambo' timestamp='1363783542' post='2017485']
Now I'm wondering if I need lower profile RAM that won't interfere with the CPU cooler I'm yet to choose.
[/quote]

It is something you need to consider, but personally I'd recommend a water cooling block for the CPU and GPU, although if you're not going to be gaming you could get away without water cooling for the GPU. They're low profile so they won't interfere with the RAM and generally quieter than a big honking fan CPU cooler. You can get simple no-maintenance systems that are sealed and have no reservoir. They won't last forever but you never have to buy coolant or bleed the system or anything.

[gruffers]

If your planning on using WIn 7 and 32GB of RAM you need Win 7 Professional or above. 64 bit Win 7 Home Premium only supports 16GB.

32 gig is likely overkill. And even if your using 64 bit Windows, any 32 bit software you may use along side it will still only address memory within the limits of a 32 bit subsystem (roughly 4 gig) regardless of the OS supporting more....So unless your going to be running 64 bit versions of software go for less RAM. You can always add more later if required.

[Shambo]

I'm flitting between my original idea of using Windows 7 x64 or plunging into a new o/s as Reaper 64bit does purport to work on Windows 8. I understand alot of plug-ins are written 32 bit native though.

I could build a lower spec and use it until I hit a wall in performance, then upgrade, but I don't want to. The reason years ago I foresook building desktop PC's in favour of laptops and games machines was that I was sick of the spiralling upgrades of more RAM, better graphics card, qicker CPU, quieter fans, new o/s, funkier mouse, etc. For years it seemed like my computer didn't go six months without me spending money on it and it might have spent more time side-off, with me hovering over it menacingly with a screwdriver, than it did turned on... and I was never never happy with the performance, always in the back of my mind thinking, "my motherboard will support that component that would have cost me twice as much a year ago... damn that new high end graphics card looks cool... etc". This time I'm going to build the highest spec I can afford and utilise it for a specific job, for a lifespan of hopefully say 5 years. My microphone GAS doesn't need PC GAS getting in the way.

My original plan wasn't to use a PC at all, instead to buy something like a Mackie HDR24 or Tascam 2424, but unless you're buying top end like Otari or JoeCo, support for standalone HD multitrack is dropping off because a PC can do all that and more for less cost. Also it seemed a better way of integrating my digital desk. I'm just not too desirous of spending the wee small hours staring at waveforms on a monitor, constantly tweaking minutae values for barely perceivable differences in sound, imagining if only I could afford that expensive plug-in that would magically change this mix from mediocre into world beater. Going to idealistically keep that to a minimum and try to use my ears and intuition instead.

So far Scan is winning the battle for the majority of my order.

Edited March 27, 2013 by Shambo

[Mornats]

Personally I'd top out at 16GB RAM and grab an SSD. I use a Crucial M4 and it's been rock solid for almost a year now. I did have an OCZ Vertex 2E which died on me (they sometimes don't recover from hibernation) but that was a problem with the type of controller than the Vertex SSDs used. So I totally understand your concerns on that front!

However changing from a HDD to an SSD is the single biggest upgrade in speed you can make to your system. So much more than adding more RAM in my opinion. I went from 4GB to 8GB of RAM and didn't notice any speed difference in recording and mixing. When I chucked in that SSD I noticed that a 45 second wait to load in an EZDrummer kit was now a 7 second slight pause. So I now have all of my sampled instruments on an SSD and I can fly through them until I find the right one and I can even change drum kits on the fly as the track's playing and they don't take long to catch up.

I also use my PC for gaming and have my CPU overclocked by 20%. I have an Akasa CPU cooler, one like this: [url="http://www.scan.co.uk/products/akasa-intel-performance-3x-heat-pipe-mini-itx-low-profile-height-multimedia-cpu-cooler-s775-1155-115"]http://www.scan.co.uk/products/akasa-intel-performance-3x-heat-pipe-mini-itx-low-profile-height-multimedia-cpu-cooler-s775-1155-115[/url] and they're superb. If it's too loud, rip the fan off and chuck on a silent one. I have these and they're good: [url="http://www.scan.co.uk/products/120mm-akasa-viper-fan-high-performance-s-flow-blade-pwm-fan-inc-rubber-mounting-pins"]http://www.scan.co.uk/products/120mm-akasa-viper-fan-high-performance-s-flow-blade-pwm-fan-inc-rubber-mounting-pins[/url]

Look into whether your motherboard has plenty of fan controllers or invest in a PCI one as you only want those fans ramping up in speed if they need to. By the way, I notice a temperature difference in my living room when mine's running at full tilt. I kid you not, it took me a while to work out why some nights there was a chill in the air and other nights it was toasty. The difference was my PC being on and running a game with the fans at full RPM.