Behringer is crap! - is it? do we give labels too much weight?

[mcnach]

So I'm doing some work at home, and I take a break.
It's sunny. The living room feels warm (the heating has been off since 8.30am despite being just above freezing temperature outside)... and I feel the basses were looking at me... I recognise that look. Go on then... picked up the Jazz, plugged it in for a bit.

I really like the sound of this amp.

It's only a small practice amp. Single 10" speaker, 40W or so. Nice tilt-back design. Compact.
I have had this amp since 2007. It's nearly 6 years old.
It's a Behringer BXL450A, and I think it's very nice for home practice.
It does not have huge lows (tiny cab) but it's got depth. I barely touch the built-in graphic EQ and don't mess about with the dual channel thingy or contour knobs... just a simple basic good tone, and I'll let the bass do its thing.

If it dies tomorrow... I'd like to find another, only, of course, they're no longer made.

I know it's not the best amp around. But it does its job really really well. It has travelled a lot with me, seen a lot of action over the years. Still holding on just fine.

It's not the only Behringer item I own that I could speak similarly about. I have had a small mixer for years, seeing daily action. It works well, no problems. I no longer use the V-Amp2, as I barely use my guitar and never record... but it was the better sounding of the available units at the time (to my ears... and I bought several of them to try side by side before I decide to keep the V-Amp2 and sell the Roland, J-Station, Vox Tonelab...).
Even the pedals... Ok, I did not keep any of them, I did not find one that I really liked... but I see many of them being used regularly, for years now, and they have not disintegrated as many anticipated.

It's so pathetic when we see someone roll their eyes when they see your Behringer whatever, or a nod of approval when you take the bass out and they see a famous logo like Fender (who has build many fantastic instruments, and some dogs too)...
I played a few gigs a while ago using a Jazz bass clone made by Westfield. In a small bar setting (these were "acoustic" sessions), you notice people looking at the headstock and trying to read what it says. Often. I'd like to think some did it because the bass sounded nice and they thought "hmmm, I want to remember that brand, in case I come across one of those in the future", but I don't think that happened much. It did sound good, although going straight to a small PA via a MXR Bass DI+ was not the best way to get the best tone out of it.
Today I mostly play my Jazz clone made by Vintage. Now, this one sounds really good. Admittedly, it has the Fender US pickups that were on my 75RI as well as the control plate & electronics of the 75RI too... and that helps a lot. The VIntage is just a very nice feeling bass... and it was my first bass, so I have a sentimental attachment to it... so I made it sound great.
Still, I sometimes notice that "oh, a cheap bass" kind of attitude (sometimes, I even hear things) from the gear nerds.
Funny, I never get them telling me later "your bass sounded awful, get rid off that piece of sh*t".
But maybe that's because I play bass, and nobody remembers the bass player (kidding )

[Dave Vader]

I regularly gig a Sunn Mustang P-clone through a harley-benton amp
Occasionally I put a Harley Benton EUB through it as well.

Sounds good to me, knackers to labels, cheap stuff works.

[Rayman]

No such thing as crap gear. Just inexpensive and expensive. I've had basses worth 2/3K that were unsuitable for me, and I've ended up with basses that cost £300 a pop used, and I love them. My favourite bass ever was £90 on ebay. Wish I'd kept it.

It doesn't have to be expensive or inexpensive to be right for you. It just has to be right for you.

There's no such thing as bad weather, or good weather. There's just weather.

[neepheid]

I don't buy into this at all, although I know some people do listen with their eyes. A local bass player who I really rate gigs a Squier Precision Standard (the PJ one) through a mishmash of amp and different cabs by different manufacturers and he consistently sounds great. My bass tutor gigs a Yamaha RBX170 through an Ashdown Electric Blue combo. Doesn't seem to hold him back any.

It happens on here (where to be honest I expected most people to be above all that). Definitely got a "can't possibly be as good as an Ibanez Promethean" feeling during discussions about the various "clones" (Harley Benton/Red Sub), accusations of the combo being made of MDF or chipboard (it isn't), allegations of poor build quality (you'd break a toe if you kicked it), and continued suspicion despite it having EXACTLY the same driver in it and the amp being made in EXACTLY the same factory as the Promethean.

I think each individual instance of a product has to be evaluated on its own merits, regardless of who manufactures it. Maybe I've got the only good, working Red Sub BT5110. Even if that was the case, and every single other one on the planet has failed, that doesn't stop my one being a great amp. Sure, failures are never good and will make people wary of taking a chance on these things, but we live in an age where manufacturing processes have come on in leaps and bounds to the point where even some of the cheapest stuff out there has a decent chance of being competent and capable.

[Beer of the Bass]

I've seen and used a few bits of Behringer kit which have given good, dependable service, especially the rackmount gear and some of the mixers. The mixers tend to develop problems after a few years of heavy use, but then so does most other gear in the same settings (I've seen just as many Mackies, Yamahas etc. with dead channels). The DIs seem to do an OK job too, but I've been a bit underwhelmed by the Behringer combos I've plugged in to so far.

[wateroftyne]

My little Behringer Eurorack mixer has worked like a champ for years.

I think it cost about the same as a packet of crisps and a bottle of irn Bru.

[fumps]

I changed my mind about Behringer when I worked at Leeds uni for a multi media department & saw all their stuff was Behringer & was fantastic stuff. all of it was getting hammered everyday & none of it showed any signs of wear.

I don't care who makes what anymore, I now work for a manufacturer & one thing is for sure, you can never fully guarantee who makes what and to what standard. So now I just think there are good stuff & bad stuff, that is it.

[flyfisher]

I would have thought it was obvious that the most expensive gear is the best - you only have to ask anyone that spends loads of money on expensive gear and they'll confirm it.

[RockfordStone]

ive got a behringer head that i paid 170 quid for new, 450 watts, and used to do me good.. it started to catch fire once, and it still works.

if i stand it up against my 1000 ampeg head, of course it isn't going to sound much cop, but ive used it for gigs, and through my ampeg cab its a perfectly useable amp.

behringer get a bad rep for being cheap, but as with any manufacturer, you get a sh*t product or a good product

[throwoff]

I have a couple of Behringer bits for the studio, a rack DI, rack tuner and one of those ultragain 800 preamp chaps.

150 quid for clean sounding preamps with an ADAT out into my Steinberg?

Yeh, there is a word for that. BARGAIN.

[Twigman]

I have a Behringer BCR2000 midi controller with a load of assignable knobs on it. It does what it says on the tin and is very useful.It was also significantly cheaper than the competition.

I also have a little Behringer headphone amp with multiple outputs which works well....it's a little odd having a few of you in a 'silent' room listening to the same thing through headphones. Ha Ha

I rate the behringer stuff I have bought

[risingson]

Played a Behringer head at the weekend through a no name cab at a gig (it was their back line stuff) and thought it was pretty naff, so I switched it out for my TC RH750 head which is handily portable. I don't have anything major against Behringer but I have suffered their quality control issues in the past and it does make me think twice about using their stuff. It's all about expectations though and what you're using it for, we're all different in this respect.

[discreet]

It's funny that people will diss Behringer without having tried any of their gear. I've used various bits and pieces inlcuding a rack tuner, a headphone amp, a compressor, a bass driver and a DI with no problems, but for me their stand-out product is the BDI-21 V-Tone, a SansAmp clone. Sounds very good indeed regardless of price - but just happens to be a total bargain, too.

[tonyquipment]

Some of the cheap stuff is crap and horrible though... C'mon.

Nothing wrong with behringer, the plasticy pedals are just less desirable than metal ones...

Never tried the Amps though!

[mike257]

Yeah, I think the stick they get is a little unfair. It's cheap gear that generally costs a lot less than the alternative and does what it says on the tin reasonably well. Some bits (like the SansAmp clone) are awesome. I got a good 8 years heavy use out of a V-Amp 2 doing demos at home before the input jack gave out. Hell, I was doing some maintenance work for a BBC local radio station and they had Behringer comp/limiters across their DAB antennae feed! Can't be that bad....

[Chris2112]

I have never really heard much of an attitude that Behringer were poorly made or liable to break down. I thought the real issue they had was that they were ripping off patented designs and getting away with it. At one point, it was impossible to discuss Behringer on Talkbass because every thread invariably turned into a fight, and one who supported Behringer was labelled a scab for supporting a the ripped off gear!

It was usually along the lines of 'my Ampeg stack cost me $3000. Why should you get something of comparable quality, of the same design, for $300, asshole.' There was a criticism that Behringer never gave anything back in terms of new designs yet reverse engineered any Western gear they could get their hands on an flooded the market with cheap copies, furthe deadening the impetus for companies to make and patent new gear.

I remember the first time I sat down and played through a Behringer amp. It gave the Ampeg combo next to it a good run for it's money,

[bartelby]

[quote name='tonyquipment' timestamp='1363867076' post='2018584']
Some of the cheap stuff is crap and horrible though... C'mon.

Nothing wrong with behringer, the plasticy pedals are just less desirable than metal ones...

[/quote]

I've had the boss style pedals, the EHX type ones, a rack tuner, a mixer and some Mics.

The plastic casing on the boss style pedals wasn't an issue. They're pretty solid.
The sound they produced was the problem.
The EHX style ones got sent back as they were appalling sounding too.
The Tuner was fine

I've has a mixer and mics for about 6 years and they've been great.

I keep meaning to try the BDI, but always forget to get one when I have money...

[discreet]

[quote name='bartelby' timestamp='1363867532' post='2018597']
I keep meaning to try the BDI, but always forget to get one when I have money...
[/quote]

Do it! They're cheap enough that everyone should have one in their gig bag for emergencies.

[bartelby]

[quote name='discreet' timestamp='1363867645' post='2018598']
Do it! They're cheap enough that everyone should have one in their gig bag for emergencies.
[/quote]

That's what I was thinking.

[paul_5]

I've used Behringer ADA things in the studio and never had any issues. The power switches on their rack stuff tend to fall off within the first month, but that's the only real issue I've had with their kit. The pedals feel a bit flimsy next to cast steel ones but to be honest, if you're using them as a trampoline then you're probably a guitarist, and your opinion is invalid. ;-)

[BernardJazz]

Admittedly I haven't used much Behringer stuff, the only Behringer item in my cheap arsenal is the BDI21 pedal.
Apart from it feeling cheap, being made of plastic and some of the settings being all or nothing (I notice no difference when I change the Presence unless it's all the way up or down) I quite like it and it has a good place in my cheap gig rig.

My gig rig:
Squier Jazz Bass (Korean, made in '96)
Behringer BDI21
RedSub 500w head
RedSub 1 x 15 cab

Over all I've spent just over £500, it's not perfect but it's giggable beyond an acceptable level I reckon.

[KevB]

Main Behringer gear I've had over last 6 or 7 years;
450H bass head originally bought in as part of a rehearsal set up. Then became a spare to take to gigs but the main gear (Trace)never failed so sold it on and apparently it is still being gigged regularly by the next owner.
Xenyx digital mixer used regularly for gigs for a couple of years. Band broke up, not had to use it since. Never had any issues with it.
Tuner pedal. Fraction of the price of the equivalent Boss at the time, seems to do exactly the same job. Still use it at every gig.

[EliasMooseblaster]

I know a rehearsal studio that bought a load of Behringer bass heads - kind of pot luck depending on the room you got whether you ended up playing through the Behringer or a Trace Elliot. And actually, I didn't mind too much. Both sounded pretty good.

I did also have a little experience playing through a 90W(?) Behringer combo. That, unfortunately, was pretty horrible. Quite a woolly sound at the best of times.

The one thing of theirs I actually own is their Bass OD. Cheap and cheerful, really. Good for doing a passable fuzz-bass sound, although not so good for soloing: if you wanted to make it cut through the mix at all, you had to wind the controls up until it sounded pretty horrible. Eventually upgraded to an Ibanez Bass Tubescreamer, which does that particular job just nicely. That said, of the other ODs I tried, a lot of them didn't sound all that much better than the Behringer - the distortion circuit on the MXR M-80 springs to mind in that respect.

Edited March 21, 2013 by EliasMooseblaster

[chris_b]

[quote name='EliasMooseblaster' timestamp='1363869621' post='2018636']
....I know a rehearsal studio that bought a load of Behringer bass heads....
[/quote]

I have only played Behringer in a rehearsal studio. I didn't rate it, but as I'm only there to get the band up to speed the sound isn't important.

Realistically there has to be a limit to the tone and quality of sound you can get with components that are that cheap.

Maybe that doesn’t bother some, but it would bother me.

Behringerbass gear might be OK for bedroom use but, IMO, as soon as you're gigging you need something better.

[JTUK]

If you can't see or hear where the corners have been cut..or are unconcerned, then fair enough.

Ask any tradesman what tools he uses and avoids like the plague and for what reasons and you might be getting somewhere..
All kit will break or fail but you hope the extra premium will show dividends over the period that you use it....but if you don't expect much
from it or you don't flog it hard, then maybe you can't or don't see the need to pay the extra.

Your call...

Behringer amps can be repaired as well....so it is not all bad.
I've used their P.A stuff at times but I wouldn't buy it myself....and that wasn't down to build quality, which seems to be quite a gripe...
it was the sound, first and foremost.

No worse that PV LD and the like... and they seem to share some common components..