Behringer is crap! - is it? do we give labels too much weight?

[icastle]

[quote name='mcnach' timestamp='1363877213' post='2018779']
I found it sad to read from teenagers who have no money talking dismissively about their "crap Squier" (that they saved up for, or their parents bought them), just to fit in with the group... It's even sadder that some might feel... I don't know, embarrased even about using a Squier and a Behringer.
That is sad.
[/quote]

It is sad, but it's really one of those things that's quite common, and not just in the context of musical instruments.

Although I readily accept it's a bit of a generalisation, I tend to think of it as trying to 'fit in' with a peer group whilst you form, develop and mature your own personality.

[barkin]

[quote name='discreet' timestamp='1363882306' post='2018889']

I defy anyone to come on here and tell me they've [i]personally [/i]had a Behringer pedal break when they stomped on it!
[/quote]

I've a BLE100 that feels like it's going to break when I stomp on it, but it hasn't yet. And I'm with you on the BDI21

[skankdelvar]

[quote name='chris_b' timestamp='1363879605' post='2018831']
Labels are good because what they indicate is mostly true.
[/quote]

Agreed, though it rather depends who does the 'labelling' and why.

When I was looking for a cheap tuner pedal for 'lively' gigs, I went in search of a Behringer. The four shops I visited told me they didn't stock them due to failure rates and returns issues, which may be fair enough. But then I asked each of them if they'd [i]ever[/i] stocked them - and only one of the four had.

Which makes me wonder if the other three were content to 'label' the Behringers in order that they could sell me something more expensive. Same with the guitar mags. Any number of them have an unofficial moratorium on even [i]mentioning[/i] low-end clone gear let alone review it, presumably so they don't piss off the big names. Even though Behringer [i]is[/i] a big name these days, I s'pose.

F'r example, the only time I've ever seen a mention of GFS pickups was in a sneery sideswipe in a mag's modding QA column. I've used a few sets of GFS's and they're basically in the same division as Behringer. Reasonable sound, constructed down to a price and as good as big-name low-end stuff. Which is what the punters mostly say, but the trade and the media [i]don't.[/i]

Edited March 21, 2013 by skankdelvar

[EliasMooseblaster]

[quote name='mcnach' timestamp='1363877213' post='2018779']
I could have spoken about Squier. On TalkBass I remember years ago Squier being often beaten to the ground as utter crap, and gave you the impression that a Squier bass would pretty much disintegrate in your hands as you play it over the following year or so. And that's not true. Some may have been a bit naff, and used plywood bodies... but they are not going to just break down, normally.
I found it sad to read from teenagers who have no money talking dismissively about their "crap Squier" (that they saved up for, or their parents bought them), just to fit in with the group... It's even sadder that some might feel... I don't know, embarrased even about using a Squier and a Behringer.
That is sad.

I wish I could have played something like an Affinity series Squier and a Behringer amp back in the day!!!

Of course, if I have the money, I am happy to pay more for something I believe to be better build and offers me a sense of security. It has to sound good, first of all.

[/quote]

That is sad, and very superficial. It's the same kind of mentality that drives people to blow any little disposable income on expensive designer clothing, because they think it confers some kind of 'status'.

And of course, it's baseless. My first bass was a Squier, a little 30" Bronco, and it was a lovely instrument. (I actually found the opposite, with my teenaged schoolmates commenting on what a nice-looking bass it was!) I've certainly played several basses that would have cost two or three times as much but I thought were horrible - or at least, not to my tastes. And I was thoroughly impressed by some of the CV Squiers, just as I've been less than taken by some MIM Fenders.

I suspect this is why Gibson and Fender are still by far the most famous guitar manufacturers. Which is not to say they don't make some lovely guitars and basses, but it must be difficult to improve your company's profile if most professional musicians will plump for a Les Paul or a MIA Precision almost as a default option. I was warned when I bought my Schecter "basically-a-P-bass" Model T that it would never have the same kind of re-sale value as a Fender, purely because of the name. Sad but true. (Not that I'm planning to sell my Schecter any time soon, of course!)

Edited March 21, 2013 by EliasMooseblaster

[stingrayPete1977]

I think people compare the wrong things and it starts the bad name thing from there, I am looking at bikes and quite rightly my mate has told me which brands are best etc, He will tell me that a Trek is better than a Halfords Carrera but mostly that is because he is comparing a £300 Carrera to a £500 Trek, from what I can see if you spend a bit more on the lesser brand you get a better bike so a £500 Carrera is actually probably a better bike than the Trek for the same money. In our bass world what I am saying is people have a perfectly good Behringer amp that is as good as its rivals sometimes better then upgrade to something like a nice Mark bass combo or full rig and harp on about how good Markbass are compared to Behringer! Same with basses pedals etc etc

I am still to better an EBMM Ray through an old Peavey TNT combo, even my Genz Shuttlemax 9.2 does not sound as good its just a lot louder!

[Ziphoblat]

[quote name='discreet' timestamp='1363882306' post='2018889']
So you haven't [i]actually[/i] used a Behringer pedal at a gig, then? That's why you 'can't see Behringer's pedal casings being any better'... [i]because you haven't used them![/i] This is just the kind of groundless speculation I mentioned in [url="http://basschat.co.uk/topic/203033-behringer-is-crap-is-it-do-we-give-labels-too-much-weight/page__view__findpost__p__2018579"]post #13[/url]!

You are associating the Behringer name with some pedals that failed. [i]But they weren't Behringer pedals[/i]. I'm no evangelist for their gear in particular, but it's very easy to see how they get a totally undeserved and unfair rep on forums!

I actually have used a Behringer BDI-21 pedal at many and various gigs, it was thrown around and generally abused like most pedals are, and though certainly made of some kind of plastic, the case proved more than robust enough to gig with. I defy anyone to come on here and tell me they've [i]personally [/i]had a Behringer BDI-21 pedal break when they stomped on it!
[/quote]

It's speculation sure, but logical speculation. I've owned several Behringer pedals, just never taken one to a gig. The casing on them felt at least as bad/cheap (often more so) than the ones that I actually took to gigs that didn't survive. I don't know about their DI pedals or whatever, I've no experience with them, I'm talking particularly about the ones in the Boss-style enclosures. They don't feel to me like they'd last 5 minutes based on my experience with similar products.

[discreet]

[quote name='Ziphoblat' timestamp='1363885278' post='2018950']
[size=4]It's speculation sure, but logical speculation. I've owned several Behringer pedals, just never taken one to a gig. The casing on them felt at least as bad/cheap (often more so) than the ones that I actually took to gigs that didn't survive. I don't know about their DI pedals or whatever, I've no experience with them, I'm talking particularly about the ones in the Boss-style enclosures. They don't feel to me like they'd last 5 minutes based on my experience with similar products.[/size]
[/quote]

Fair enough, but I think Behringer do get at least [i]some [/i]undeserved criticism. And some that is quite deserved too, of course. [size=4]I didn't mean to come over all ranty, but people do diss manufacturers on hearsay alone, and it boils my piss! [/size]

Edited March 21, 2013 by discreet

[Lozz196]

Behringer gear I`ve had:

BDI21 - very good, punches well above it`s weight/cost
DC9 Compressor - same as above
XM8500 Mic - same as above
Some form of mixer and power amp in an old band - loud good eq/effects, never let us down

And a local regular gigging band I go to see, their bassist has a Behringer Ultrabass head & 410, it sounds awesome, and in the 2 or 3 years he`s had it, it`s never - as far as I know - let him down. I`ve never seen him use a different amp since getting it.

So yes, there is better gear out there, but I can`t judge an item costing a tenth of the price of something else and expect it to be as good. I can however be very pleasantly surprised when said item is far better than it`s price would indicate - and that is Behringer all over, to me.

[mike257]

I'm surprised nobody's posted the infamous video of the guy trying to smash the bejesus out of one of those "fragile" plastic Behringer stomps and barely managing to scratch it. They're tougher than you might think.

On my mobile now, but if it hasn't appeared by the time I'm back at my computer I'll dig it out on YouTube!

[paul_5]

In all honesty, having used a few, the footswitches on the pedals are temperamental. It's an easy fix if you're that way inclined though. I use a BSY600 on my board, as it suits my needs better than the Boss SYB5, in that when it's used to hold a drone pedal note, the filter doesn't continue to sweep up and down like a bride's nightie.

[bartelby]

[quote name='mike257' timestamp='1363888168' post='2019013']
I'm surprised nobody's posted the infamous video of the guy trying to smash the bejesus out of one of those "fragile" plastic Behringer stomps and barely managing to scratch it. They're tougher than you might think.

On my mobile now, but if it hasn't appeared by the time I'm back at my computer I'll dig it out on YouTube!
[/quote]

I had a moment of doubt about it being a Behringer pedal, for some reason...

[Beer of the Bass]

I've never found plastic cased pedals to be a problem either. I have an Ibanez TS-5 tubescreamer which was a 12th birthday present - I'm 32 now. I've used it on and off quite a lot in that time. It needed the power jack connections re-soldering a while ago, and I'm about to replace the switch, but neither of those things are related to the plastic case. The case itself is fine! Looking at the plastic Behringers, the build quality looks similar, so I wouldn't be surprised if some of them lasted about as well.

[GarethFlatlands]

I only have experience of the bass cabs with the aluminium cones, every single one of which failed in a very short space of time. The cone came away from the surround and disintegrated rapidly, until one speaker blew and took my amp head with it.

I've been put off using them since that day and haven't bought another one of their products.

[BassTractor]

One of Norway's well-known recording studios used a lot of Behringer stuff, but the owner did state that with Behringer, one must know what gear to get and what to avoid. He was clear about some Behringer gear having short life span, and/or huge fail rate.

I buy the point that quite some people hear with their eyes, and find it quite funny that a band I love the sound of (a Swedish rock band called "bob hund" - yup, without capitalisation) uses lots of old cheap gear, like vinyl-covered-board-bodied guitars that were very cheap even in the sixties.
Then again, this band would hardly have any fan who'd go up to them to ask: "Couldn't you afford a Fender, mate?"

FWiW, I used a few Behringer units for a short time before returning them and instead getting the TC Electronic alternatives, which sounded better, but at a higher price.

best,
bert

[GarethFlatlands]

[quote name='BassTractor' timestamp='1363892932' post='2019097']
One of Norway's well-known recording studios used a lot of Behringer stuff, but the owner did state that with Behringer, one must know what gear to get and what to avoid. He was clear about some Behringer gear having short life span, and/or huge fail rate.
[/quote]

Indeed, I'm warming to the idea of trying something by them again but my experience put me off for the longest time. I think a BDI21 is in order as they seem to be very well though of and I've not heard much on failure rates for them.

[Ricksflynn]

When I got back to playing after my 7 year break at the beginning of last month I started looking for a amp for home use that would be able to hold its own in a practice / small gig when it came to it. I looked at all the usual suspects and was close to buying both an Ampeg and then an Ashdown mini rig. I carried on looking at what I could get for my money and I came across the Behringer
BXL1800. For the money, I think it's was something like £160 I got more power for my money. It sounds really nice with my bass and packs the right punch. Ok, I may upgrade to a stack in the near future but this will be my home amp as long as it lasts. I'm really happy with it.

[WhoNeedsYou]

I've Got a behringer head & cab (450 & a 2x 10)
Had it approximately 9 years, not a bother.
I don't gig very often to be fair, but have done a sh*t load of rehearsing (for my sins!)
I am hoping not to jinx myself, due to the fact I've posted this with a gig tomorrow night!

[discreet]

[quote name='GarethFlatlands' timestamp='1363894181' post='2019124']
Indeed, I'm warming to the idea of trying something by them again but my experience put me off for the longest time. I think a BDI21 is in order as they seem to be very well though of and I've not heard much on failure rates for them.
[/quote]

If there's one bit of Behringer kit I would recommend unconditionally it's the BDI-21. You won't be disappointed.

[White Cloud]

The most important factor is the name of the person using the equipment....not the name on the headstock or piece of kit.

Equipment obsession is addictive and unhealthy imho. I have known some incredible players who own modest gear and sound incredible, and some extremely poor players with incredible gear...which sounds s**t in their hands.

Edited March 21, 2013 by White Cloud

[Ricksflynn]

[quote name='White Cloud' timestamp='1363896609' post='2019185']
The most important factor is the name of the person using the equipment....not the name on the headstock or piece of kit.
[/quote]

Never a truer word said!

[ellie]

[quote name='Ricksflynn' timestamp='1363896725' post='2019188']
Never a truer word said!
[/quote]

I used to use a Behringer 450 head with a 4X10 cab. I found it to be ok for gigs. I did all sorts with that rig. The only problem I had was the plastic jack passive input snapped after lending it to a another bass player. Come to think of it I have that head and a 1X15 cab for sale now lol.
I also have a few of their pedals, yes they are plastic but strong enough.

[Stacker]

I guess with Behringer, it's as Bass Tractor basically says - some are ok, asome are sh*te! In my experience, their rack DIs are prone to noise and and my first gig with their Vamp-pro (1st model) was ruined by the amp intermittently cutting out, with the patch being used - or any patch for that matter - having to be recalled by selecting another patch first, a process compounded by the fact that that process had sometimes to be done more than once. I sold it and the foot-controller the next again week.

[steve-bbb]

my prev band the guitar plucker had a behringer PA and mixer - sounded fine to me

[KevB]

The one thing I would say about the Behringer stomp box type pedals is that I don't like the design of the battery access. I imagine they had to come up with something different enough from Boss so not to get sued but it's a faff if you really insist on using them battery powered. I always use my tuner pedal with a power brick but if I were on batteries and it died I wouldn't relish having to swap a battery on a darkened stage. I'd probably end up cutting a hole in the bottom of the pedal and making a hinged lid to get to the battery like the Boss designs.

[JapanAxe]

Behringer stuff I use and would recommend:[list]
[*]GI-100 DI box with speaker simulation - indispensable for recording guitar and bass through a real amp.
[*]VD-400 analog delay pedal - Boss DM2 clone, uses same bucket brigade chips as Carbon Copy, Aqua Puss II etc - bargain to chuck in the gig bag for jams etc.
[*]Ultravoice Pro mic preamp - set and forget for recording vocals.
[*]Eurorack Pro rack mixer with 8 stereo channels - the heart of my studio, brilliant audio solution, another bargain.
[/list]
It's not all good though. A band I played with used an alleged 2x450W Behringer powered mixer, and that was well under-powered. The singer blew up 2 of them. Also I was asked to repair a little Behringer mixer that a drummer friend used for his drum mics. All I can say is that these things are not made to be fixed!