Behringer is crap! - is it? do we give labels too much weight?

[phlebas]

I own/have owned several bits of behringer gear.

Their tremolo pedal is great - sounds like any other mid priced trem for less than half the money. Their headphone amps are also solid - loads of studios have the powerplay 8 way ones which seem to go on forever.

On the other hand, I've owned 2 delays, both of which died inside 6 months, and could never get the tuner to track reliably.

The bits that work are great value, but factoring in the stuff that hasn't lasted makes them much less cost effective.

Equally, my Markbass gear is the best stuff I've ever bought (and super reliable) but cost a few bob.

So much comes down to trust - I've never played a bad squier, so often recommend then to kids I teach. Whereas I've played several Gibsons that were utter dogs, despite £700+ pricetags, so I tend to give them a wide berth...

[Pow_22]

I wouldnt mind a go of the Bugera badged valve/hybrid amps. The clone of the SVT CL and the 4 pre amp Valved effort

[BigRedX]

There is some Behringer gear that is truly crap. Anyone remember the tube rack processor, where the tube didn't actually do anything and was illuminated by an LED behind it?

[Norris]

Main bass: Squier P-bass special (Indonesian), cost £150 second hand - I prefer playing it to my Fender US Jazz and Gibson Thunderbird that stay at home, and will proudly extoll its virtues to anybody who notices the name on the headstock. In fact I prefer my Mexican fretless Jazz to the US one

EUB: Rocket (Stagg) EDB 3/4 - plenty good enough for my novice use

Amplifier: Peavey Databass, cost about £300 second hand back in the 90's. I've GASsed for an Ampeg rig in the past but realise that my little combo does/sounds everything I need it to - especially fitting neatly into the boot of the car

Home studio mixer: Behringer Xenix X1622USB. To be honest I've not used it nearly as much as I would like/should, but it sounds good to me, and certainly no issues with reliability

There is some cracking budget & second hand gear out there. To hell with badge snobs I say!

[KevB]

[quote name='Norris' timestamp='1363957223' post='2020111']
Main bass: Squier P-bass special (Indonesian), cost £150 second hand - I prefer playing it to my Fender US Jazz and Gibson Thunderbird that stay at home, and will proudly extoll its virtues to anybody who notices the name on the headstock. In fact I prefer my Mexican fretless Jazz to the US one
[/quote]

I had one of the Indonesian Squier P specials too and also have a USA jazz. Whilst the Squier was excellent value for money and was almost as playable as the US jazz after a bit of tweaking I thought the quality of the pickups on the jazz blew the Squier ones out of the water. If I'd kept the Squier long term I'd certainly have upgraded the pickups. As it turned out I found a US P bass deluxe which made the Squier redundant and I sold it on but it was, as I said, very very good value.

[Norris]

[quote name='KevB' timestamp='1363958003' post='2020119']
If I'd kept the Squier long term I'd certainly have upgraded the pickups.[/quote]
I've heard/seen a few people say that, but my stock pups sound darned good to me and the audience, including lots of musos. The P has a lovely tone, the J not so much so but doesn't get used most of time anyway. I originally bought the bass as a donor for a self-build project, but haven't got the heart to start hacking it about having played quite it a bit and got so much pleasure from it

[lefrash]

Another +1 for what tractor said ( and no doubts others)

Some items are brilliant. Some are not so good. IME I have used a micromixer for over 5 years (and it was 2nd hand then) and its still going strong. Used everyday for my pc sound. I've even got a V-ampire Head which my mate gigged for a few years - perfectly useable. Almost any studio I've been in there has been some sort of behringer rack gear, and my mate swears by the patch bay thing they do (oh and the ADA thing aswell)

On the other, you need to think about cost of maintenance. Becaus eits so cheaply made, if something does go wrong then it can be uneconompicable to repair. Alot of it is built with prebuilt compononents, so if one tiny bit goes, a full section needs to be replaced. I'm basing this on experience of an amp of theirs that went, and the repair man said this. I cant say its the same for all products but I'm guessing it could be similiar.

[BassTractor]

[quote name='BigRedX' timestamp='1363954459' post='2020047']
There is some Behringer gear that is truly crap. Anyone remember the tube rack processor, where the tube didn't actually do anything and was illuminated by an LED behind it?
[/quote]

You really don't get it, do you? That thing is world famous for the tube lasting forever. This is [i][b]quality[/b][/i], man!
Thanks for mentioning it. I've heard about that scheme, but had no idea it was a Behringer.
I'm gonna keep that story in my arsenal of fun stuff.

best,
bert

[mcnach]

[quote name='BigRedX' timestamp='1363954459' post='2020047']
There is some Behringer gear that is truly crap. Anyone remember the tube rack processor, where the tube didn't actually do anything and was illuminated by an LED behind it?
[/quote]




I still have a guitar amp, a Behringer AC112... pretty sweet amp, actually. The overdrive is not very good, and the effects are best forgotten (they work, but nothing great, I only use a bit of reverb)... but it has a pretty nice clean voice. I have had quite a lot of compliments with it.
It has a 12AX7 valve... and a small grill where you can see it glow. Well, only it does not glow at all... there is a led under it.
Why??? The amp sounds good without that BS!

[Smythe]

The power amps Behringer do (crossover ones for PA speakers) are great. Their bass amplification is something left to be desired.. Mind you its no worse than Hartke.

[neepheid]

[quote name='Smythe' timestamp='1364025962' post='2020968']
The power amps Behringer do (crossover ones for PA speakers) are great. Their bass amplification is something left to be desired.. Mind you its no worse than Hartke.
[/quote]

Great. More generalised bitching about a particular brand in a thread about generalised bitching about a particular brand - that's exactly what we need.

I've had nothing but positive experiences with every Hartke amp I've used. I take it you got a bad one. These things happen, but it's not a barrel of apples, you know...

[chrismuzz]

Another Behringer thread! It's amazing how (in)famous this company is

I was given Behringer Ultrabass BX4410 combo by the guitarist in an old band. It was very very loud, but impossible to get a good sound with. You could turn the lows all the way to the left and it would still sound muddy and undefined. Terrible amp! I ended up giving it back, and his new bass player uses it now... Poor guy! That being said, I have seen two bands where the bassist was using an Ultrabass head through a different cab (including one guy who borrowed my Markbass cab), and it actually sounded really good! It was a very smooth but cutting midrange focused sound. So it must have been the speakers that sucked!

My best mate is a guitarist has had a Behringer modelling head + 4x12 cab for about 7 years. They've never let him down, and he's actually never had a bad sound out of them! He sounds better now he's using a Peavey Valveking head but still uses his trusty Behringer 4x12!

Their pedals are hit and miss, but at the price they're well worth it. I really liked the DC9 compressor that I picked up for £16, despite the miniscule low end loss.

The mixers are very good, can't fault them. And they also do a VERY good copy of a Shure SM58 microphone. Most wouldn't be able to tell the difference.

[Immo]

You know, if one person tells me something is a junk, OK, I might consider it. When two people tell me this, I start to wonder. When three people tell me this, I'd be afraid to use it. And when MY contact with this ends within 5 seconds due to the malfunction, I'll never, ever like to use it again. No reason for taking the risk. Having that said, there is only one company with a "back story" like that. But I won't lie saying that I'm not surprised that actually something Behringer made is working properly for a long period.

Squiers, especially VMs and CVs, are great, so are Epiphones and there's nothing to be ashamed of when using them, but I'd hesitate to admit I play something that's a real cr**p, like those bass-like products of Chinese companies making anything ranging from alarm clocks through toasters to amps. Behringer is a bit better than that, but the failure rate stories seem to shroud everything around this equipment.

Edited March 23, 2013 by Immo

[mike257]

[quote name='KevB' timestamp='1363958003' post='2020119']


I had one of the Indonesian Squier P specials too and also have a USA jazz. Whilst the Squier was excellent value for money and was almost as playable as the US jazz after a bit of tweaking I thought the quality of the pickups on the jazz blew the Squier ones out of the water. If I'd kept the Squier long term I'd certainly have upgraded the pickups. As it turned out I found a US P bass deluxe which made the Squier redundant and I sold it on but it was, as I said, very very good value.
[/quote]

I've got one too, first bass I owned and still gets played now 14 years later. I've swapped the pickups for Wizards, the bridge for a Badass II and replaced the pots but its the awesome neck that makes it a keeper, not just the sentimental value. Great basses for the money they cost.

[Phil Starr]

I'm a bit of a techie, I've designed and small scale manufactured gear and still repair stuff.

First my actual experience with behringer. I've had two EP series PA amps and they have been utterly reliable and are well made, also a Xenyx mixer, which is utterly reliable also. I used XM8500 mic's, the SM58 look alike which sounds slightly better than the SM58 but with slightly worse feedback control and much more handling noise. The mic had to be rewired and I can't tell you how bad the original soldering was.

I think to understand Behringer you only have to think what they are trying to do. To make stuff cheap you have to look at costs across the board. Labour costs and electronics are cheap so the boards are often OK. Materials costs are similar if you make them in the UK or China so shaving materials costs is worth doing, slightly flimsier mouldings, cases and crucially connectors can cut costs. Quality control is expensive as you need skilled workers to do this. After sales care is also expensive. Anything with cheap connectors is going to be less reliable and rushing me-too products onto the market can lead to problems. Having said this behringer won't actually want anything unreliable to come out of their factories they will just engineer a compromise which keeps costs down.

Components like speakers which have a significant materials cost can't have the costs shaved without affecting the quality, so the speakers are designed to a price. Most of the dissatisfaction seems to be about the products with speakers in.

Ultimately the reason I am wary of Behringer because of their after sales. Some of the retailers I talked to have said that the new distributors in the UK don't provide the support out of the guarantee period that other companies do. Because of the method of construction (shared by most electronic stuff these days) repairs are difficult without new boards being available. No worse than say, Apple but something you factor into what you are prepared to pay.

Personally I'd rather pay 10-20% more and get a better product but this gap isn't filled by many manufacturers. Behringer represent great value and the reliability isn't as bad as their reputation but you will find the odd bit of horsemeat if you dine at this end of the market.

[VTypeV4]

I have used many of their rack mounted signal processors from gates and compressors to the digital EQ and FX units. My experience is that thy all work perfectly well especially given their price point. The FX unit doesn't sound as clever nor is it as flexible as my TC M1 but it costs 6 times less. Out of all the Behringer products, I've never had one fail but I did have to have my TC fixed last year after it went mad..

As a general label, all the companies suffer IMO. Some Peavey stuff is labelled as heavy and not great sounding, Ashdown gets the wooly thing, Trace gets the heavy and clanky badge etc.. Most of it (as we've seen previously discussed) is based on hear-say or 'a mate of mine said' rather than first hand experience..

My Ashton is another case in point. Ashton? Must be cheap rubbish badly designed and poorly executed from the far east? I ate my words when I walked out of the shop with it. To this day, it's been perfectly reliable and is even well made..

[chrismuzz]

[quote name='VTypeV4' timestamp='1364045631' post='2021252']
As a general label, all the companies suffer IMO. Some Peavey stuff is labelled as heavy and not great sounding, Ashdown gets the wooly thing, Trace gets the heavy and clanky badge etc.. Most of it (as we've seen previously discussed) is based on hear-say or 'a mate of mine said' rather than first hand experience..
[/quote]

Out of those 3.. I love Peavey stuff, sounds great in the mix and solo... It's heavy, but indestructible! Ashdown amps/cabs I quite like too, just not when you drive them as they sound a bit too thin. Trace i don't get on with at all. I live for the clank, but it's a very unpleasant midrangey clank that I couldn't dial out without losing all signs of clarity. The only amp I used that was worse was the Behringer one I mentioned before!

The thing is, I've heard other players make some mouth wateringly amazing sounds come out of Trace gear, so a lot of it comes down to how well the gear works with your technique.

[discreet]

[quote name='Phil Starr' timestamp='1364038920' post='2021133']
...you will find the odd bit of horsemeat if you dine at this end of the market.
[/quote]

Ha, ha! [size=4] I'm going to nick this phrase if you don't mind.[/size]

[VTypeV4]

[quote name='chrismuzz' timestamp='1364047419' post='2021286']
The thing is, I've heard other players make some mouth wateringly amazing sounds come out of Trace gear, so a lot of it comes down to how well the gear works with your technique.
[/quote]

And I guess thats what keeps it inetersting. if we all liked the same thing it'd be awful dull. I know you're very proud of your MarkBass setup and glad it works with/and/for what you do however, I just didn't quite 'get' it if you know what I mean. Trace stuff on the other hand has always been a reference point for me, I love to this very day.

I'm with you on Peavey stuff and Ashdown cabs though, I borrowed a Peavey Firebass (or such similar?) and it was really good, everything just sat right with it somehow.. And the MAG 210 I owned and hammered for a while was a belter and seemingly indesctructable..

[Smythe]

[quote name='neepheid' timestamp='1364030691' post='2021001']
Great. More generalised bitching about a particular brand in a thread about generalised bitching about a particular brand - that's exactly what we need.

I've had nothing but positive experiences with every Hartke amp I've used. I take it you got a bad one. These things happen, but it's not a barrel of apples, you know...
[/quote]

Sorry, its all down to personal taste i suppose. I've used both brands on numerous occasions, lots of different models, when running through house or headliners gear. They didnt do anything for me and now i always use my own gear. Ive got to admit, i am quite picky with amps/cabs though .

[skankdelvar]

[quote name='Phil Starr' timestamp='1364038920' post='2021133']
I'm a bit of a techie,
[/quote]

A very informative post, chockful of reason and good sense. Nice work, Sir.

[quote name='chrismuzz' timestamp='1364047419' post='2021286']
Trace i don't get on with at all. I live for the clank, but it's a very unpleasant midrangey clank that I couldn't dial out without losing all signs of clarity.
[/quote]

Thank God, and I thought it was just me. It always seemed [i]that sound [/i]was more 'plannnk' than 'clank'.

Y'know, I think this has been the most sensible Behringer thread I've ever seen. Lots of specific examples - mostly good, some bad - lots of detail and an absence of moralising about IP and lost jobs.

Most refreshing.

Edited March 23, 2013 by skankdelvar

[Smythe]

[quote name='skankdelvar' timestamp='1364052242' post='2021398']Thank God, and I thought it was just me. It always seemed [i]that sound [/i]was more 'plannnk' than 'clank'.[/quote]

I loved my Trace Elliott GP12 SMX 2x10 Combo, the longest serving amplificaton unit i've had, its tone was just what i was after , The only reason i got rid of it was because it was on its last legs and i was spending a lot on repairs. I miss that combo. I'm a Markbass man now.

[skankdelvar]

[quote name='Smythe' timestamp='1364053042' post='2021413']
I loved my Trace Elliott GP12 SMX 2x10 Combo, the longest serving amplificaton unit i've had, its tone was just what i was after , The only reason i got rid of it was because it was on its last legs and i was spending a lot on repairs. I miss that combo. I'm a Markbass man now.
[/quote]

That's good. This whole tone thing is so subjective, isn't it - lots of people love Trace but I just never got the sound I wanted.

[chrismuzz]

[quote name='VTypeV4' timestamp='1364050008' post='2021361']
I know you're very proud of your MarkBass setup and glad it works with/and/for what you do however, I just didn't quite 'get' it if you know what I mean.
[/quote]

Are you saying I have a crap sound???

[mcnach]

[quote name='chrismuzz' timestamp='1364035738' post='2021075']
Their pedals are hit and miss,
[/quote]

you need bigger boots...